MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[December]

Sorry for my spelling in that post. I didn't notice until too late to edit.

 

[LadyL]

Those vehicles were parked in front of the neighbor's house on his side of the street which makes sense because cars have to be parked in the direction street traffic is flowing. The neighbor may have cleared the snow trying to figure out who they belonged to.

JMO

The car was parked in front of the neighbours but I think the truck was across the road in front of JW's facing the opposite way from the car?

video here:

Chiefs fans found dead had fentanyl and coke in system: report

A toxicology report discovered the three Kansas City Chiefs fans and friends found dead at their HIV scientist friend's home had fentanyl, cocaine and other illegal drugs in their system.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[10ofRods]

The car was parked in front of the neighbours but I think the truck was across the road in front of JW's facing the opposite way from the car?

Why do you think that?

 

[LadyL]

Why do you think that?

that's what I thought I remembered from the video
the news showed the neighbour's video

it took forever but I finally found the video:

Chiefs fans found dead had fentanyl and coke in system: report

A toxicology report discovered the three Kansas City Chiefs fans and friends found dead at their HIV scientist friend's home had fentanyl, cocaine and other illegal drugs in their system.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[rleigh123]

He was just stating the fact that the case had not been turned over to the homicide division, and they weren't involved at all.



Also, IMO, he was stating that fact to reassure ordinary people that this wasn't some kind of massacre on a quiet suburban street in KC.



IMO, he wasn't speaking to the true crime community.



And obviously, if things change, the strategy could change. He was speaking in the present tense, not in the future tense.



IMO, this story will disappoint a lot of true crime fans who were hoping for a juicy case.



JMO

Come now. Investigators are human. Anyone who has the vaguest knowledge of law and order or crime and punishment knows there are countless cases where police "fumbled the investigation early on," "dropped the ball," "jumped to conclusions," "got tunnel vision" or where "the crime scene was compromised." Etc, etc. IMO

I always keep in mind the police know far more than the public. But sometimes we can see mistakes happening in real time, like with the McStay family and Gabby Petito cases. It's unsettling and disheartening to me.

The Chief of Police said it's "100% not being investigated as a homicide."

We can speculate why he said it, but IMO what he said is quite different than your interpretation of it.

You may be correct about his reasoning, but IMO it was an odd statement for him to make.

If we are to take what he said as the literal truth, it was an irresponsible approach to the case, IMO.

It's in the "present tense" where the scene is fresh and IMO investigative measures should NOT be taken off the table in case, as you said, "things change."

His comment (imo) and my opinion of it has nothing to do with "true crime community" or "true crime fans" or how much experience a detective has.

Police come onto a scene where three people are dead and they don't know why. IMO an experienced investigator knows that in such situations, it's better to use all investigative tools - rather than emphatically decide right then and there to take investigative measures related to homicides completely off the table.

Personally, I think it's possible this is a case of fentanyl poisoning. I don't know much about it, but I know there have been increasing similar cases in the last couple of years. If that's the case here, I don't know if there will be attempts to trace it back, or if it will be a Fed or local case.

But in such cases I would think it's possible it could end up being classified as "homicide."

I'm not laying blame on JW. I don't know enough about the case to make that judgment.

 

[rleigh123]

I think might be a situation where the Chief just felt compelled to say something and did without being careful about his words. He should have said very little. I think this is going to be a homicide investigation of some sort.

Is it a "juicy" case? I'm not sure what that means. I think it may well be a very very important case that needs to stay in the news. Fentanyl is killing a staggering amount of people that don't need to die.

This ^^^

Agree 100%. Thanks for putting my thoughts so well into words, lol!

 

[LadyL]

Come now. Investigators are human. Anyone who has the vaguest knowledge of law and order or crime and punishment knows there are countless cases where police "fumbled the investigation early on," "dropped the ball," "jumped to conclusions," "got tunnel vision" or where "the crime scene was compromised." Etc, etc. IMO

I always keep in mind the police know far more than the public. But sometimes we can see mistakes happening in real time, like with the McStay family and Gabby Petito cases. It's unsettling and disheartening to me.

The Chief of Police said it's "100% not being investigated as a homicide."

We can speculate why he said it, but IMO what he said is quite different than your interpretation of it.

You may be correct about his reasoning, but IMO it was an odd statement for him to make.

If we are to take what he said as the literal truth, it was an irresponsible approach to the case, IMO.

It's in the "present tense" where the scene is fresh and IMO investigative measures should NOT be taken off the table in case, as you said, "things change."

His comment (imo) and my opinion of it has nothing to do with "true crime community" or "true crime fans" or how much experience a detective has.

Police come onto a scene where three people are dead and they don't know why. IMO an experienced investigator knows that in such situations, it's better to use all investigative tools - rather than emphatically decide right then and there to take investigative measures related to homicides completely off the table.

Personally, I think it's possible this is a case of fentanyl poisoning. I don't know much about it, but I know there have been increasing similar cases in the last couple of years. If that's the case here, I don't know if there will be attempts to trace it back, or if it will be a Fed or local case.

But in such cases I would think it's possible it could end up being classified as "homicide."

I'm not laying blame on JW. I don't know enough about the case to make that judgment.

[bbm]
he didn't 'decide right then and there'
can you provide MSM that has him saying that the day of?

 

[rleigh123]

I was referring to it in the sense of true crime: no matter how often you squeeze, new details come out, lots of unanswered questions but leaks and rumours to speculate about , highly detailed to occupy interesting podcasts and videos etc.

[...]

I agree- I hate the "frenzy" aspect. The ridiculous headlines and far reaches.

 

[LadyL]

This ^^^

Agree 100%. Thanks for putting my thoughts so well into words, lol!

they've got tox results and it hasn't been declared a homicide investigation yet
if they do, I think they will be investigating 5th man thoroughly

 

[rleigh123]

Disagree. There was no "proclamation." Investigations always proceed from "belief." What else would they proceed from?

How do you know they didn't have immediate, preliminary tox results? In a place where Fentanyl deaths were 850 in one year, the year or two before, of course they have tox results. LE has to have testing or they'd be subject to some deadly effects themselves.

"Possible" is not the domain of LE. They did not "decide." They know they are part of a system - where the decisions lie elsewhere (the Judicial process of making an arrest).

"No signs of homicide" has a meaning in LE (nation-wide). It's not a random use of words.

Saying something is wrong for all LE agencies, when there are widespread protocols, is really odd, to me.

Proclamation:
A public or official announcement, especially one dealing with a matter of great importance. (Oxford Dictionary.)

KC Chief of Police at press conference:
"100% not being investigated as a homicide."

I understand he may have said that to "calm the public," but I'm basing my opinion on his definitive, literal words.

Indeed, the police know more than we do and they have policies, procedures, knowledge, experience, etc. But there was a lot they admittedly did not know at that time (and possibly still don't.)

It's strange to me in that situation with so many bizarre circumstances and unknowns that all investigative measures related to homicide would immediately be taken completely off the table.

 

[LadyL]

Proclamation:
A public or official announcement, especially one dealing with a matter of great importance. (Oxford Dictionary.)

KC Chief of Police at press conference:
"100% not being investigated as a homicide."

I understand he may have said that to "calm the public," but I'm basing my opinion on his definitive, literal words.

Indeed, the police know more than we do and they have policies, procedures, knowledge, experience, etc. But there was a lot they admittedly did not know at that time (and possibly still don't.)

It's strange to me in that situation with so many bizarre circumstances and unknowns that all investigative measures related to homicide would immediately be taken completely off the table.

[bbm]

immediately? when was it exactly that he said it?

if he said it to 'calm the public', then maybe all investigative measures related to homicide were not 'immediately taken off the table'

police aren't required to tell the public everything - they can say what they want to try and advance the investigation

 

[rleigh123]

Proclamation:
A public or official announcement, especially one dealing with a matter of great importance. (Oxford Dictionary.)

KC Chief of Police at press conference:
"100% not being investigated as a homicide."

I understand he may have said that to "calm the public," but I'm basing my opinion on his definitive, literal words.

Indeed, the police know more than we do and they have policies, procedures, knowledge, experience, etc. But there was a lot they admittedly did not know at that time (and possibly still don't.)

It's strange to me in that situation with so many bizarre circumstances and unknowns that all investigative measures related to homicide would immediately be taken completely off the table.

Correcting myself: was not police chief who said it, but rather police Capt. Jake Becchina.

 

[MyBelle]

Come now. Investigators are human. Anyone who has the vaguest knowledge of law and order or crime and punishment knows there are countless cases where police "fumbled the investigation early on," "dropped the ball," "jumped to conclusions," "got tunnel vision" or where "the crime scene was compromised." Etc, etc. IMO

I always keep in mind the police know far more than the public. But sometimes we can see mistakes happening in real time, like with the McStay family and Gabby Petito cases. It's unsettling and disheartening to me.

The Chief of Police said it's "100% not being investigated as a homicide."

We can speculate why he said it, but IMO what he said is quite different than your interpretation of it.

You may be correct about his reasoning, but IMO it was an odd statement for him to make.

If we are to take what he said as the literal truth, it was an irresponsible approach to the case, IMO.

It's in the "present tense" where the scene is fresh and IMO investigative measures should NOT be taken off the table in case, as you said, "things change."

His comment (imo) and my opinion of it has nothing to do with "true crime community" or "true crime fans" or how much experience a detective has.

Police come onto a scene where three people are dead and they don't know why. IMO an experienced investigator knows that in such situations, it's better to use all investigative tools - rather than emphatically decide right then and there to take investigative measures related to homicides completely off the table.

Personally, I think it's possible this is a case of fentanyl poisoning. I don't know much about it, but I know there have been increasing similar cases in the last couple of years. If that's the case here, I don't know if there will be attempts to trace it back, or if it will be a Fed or local case.

But in such cases I would think it's possible it could end up being classified as "homicide."

I'm not laying blame on JW. I don't know enough about the case to make that judgment.

BBM. I will be shocked if LE are not attempting to trace the source of the illegal fentanyl AND cocaine. But there also is no evidence that I have seen that indicates the men did NOT voluntarily ingest it and that JW even knew about it.

The fentanyl epidemic is being investigated on a national level and the DEA is part of the investigation. Multiple links have been posted upthread.

I agree, these are experienced investigators. The "true crime community" needs to let them do their jobs.

JMO

 

[December]

Everyone freaked out because we were initially supposed to believe they had some beers then could not figure out how to get out of a backyard and thus, froze to death. Meanwhile, the police seemed to be saying "nothing to see here".

On the first thread there are people wondering if maybe they were locked out of the house due to automatic locks, and I remember saying that they worked in construction; they would have climbed out. Even back then, we suspected there had to be a good reason they didn't do something to save themselves from freezing.

Jmo, i know official reports aren't back yet... But it looks like they didn't get out of the backyard because they were deceased. That puts things in a different light.

I know that the unusual circumstances of this case made it difficult to know maybe the sequence of events (which may yet be unknown), but the way this case was communicated to the public caused a lot of speculation that might not have occurred otherwise.

Plus, their families were pretty upset (understandably), and yes they wanted answers. Saying immediately that it's not a homicide is not really an answer. Because it immediately leads to the question "well, what is it then"?

I am not making the case for it to be any particular thing. But, I like reassurances that it is being looked into thoroughly. They might learn something here that will save someone else's life.

 

[charliethecat]

Even if JW was more than "a casual user" of alcohol or weed, so far, we've seen no evidence JW was a casual user of any Illegal drugs such as cocaine and fentanyl.

JMO

I understood he checked himself in for treatment for alcoholism not drug addiction.

 

[Karin1974]

I have to be honest, I'm very surprised by all the people who wouldn't break in. I'd have a credit card in that door slot so fast and be popped and in before a wine glass could have been picked up I don't care about a breaking and entering charges, BUT in 14 years my partner has never not come home or been home when he said he was going to be and I've been to jail (for a day, I didn't like it but I could survive a day for a B&E charge until it got worked out)

I agree, in fact, I’d have broken in much sooner after having no response when calling my partner’s phone the day after if I go round to the house where the get together was & his car is still parked in the street!

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Well here we are. The Chiefs won an exciting Super Bowl and, sadly, these fellas weren't here to see it. The choices we make.

 

[TwoBlueJays]

Well here we are. The Chiefs won an exciting Super Bowl and, sadly, these fellas weren't here to see it. The choices we make.

I was coming here to say that. I hope that somehow they know.

 

[Wallendo]

With the rapid expansion of the true crime community, it seems that LE releases much less information than previously. I suspect LE recognized what had happened almost immediately and, out of respect for the families, their initial suspicions of drug overdose were not made public.

A plausible scenario would be:
JW chose not to use cocaine
The three victims went outside on the back porch, and were victims of an accidental overdose.
JW consumed a lot of alcohol and eventually assumed the victims had simply left.
JW may have had no reason at all to check in back porch.
If JW was drinking, he may have had no reason to look out on the street to look for cars, and may have had no reason to leave his house.
If he was passed out, he may have slept through call and door knocks.

Fentanyl overdoses are extremely common, and likely LE will not spend a great deal of time tracking the source of this. One of the problems with fatal overdoses is that the victim cannot tell you where the drugs were purchased .. and credit cards and checks are not generally used.

It would be interesting to know if there has been an uptick in deaths in this area. If a dealer has mixed in too much fentanyl in cocaine, there would likely be a rash of OD's.

I live in a community where OD's are almost an every day occurrence. During much of the COVID era, OD deaths outnumbered COVID deaths.

 

[10ofRods]

that's what I thought I remembered from the video
the news showed the neighbour's video

it took forever but I finally found the video:

Chiefs fans found dead had fentanyl and coke in system: report

A toxicology report discovered the three Kansas City Chiefs fans and friends found dead at their HIV scientist friend's home had fentanyl, cocaine and other illegal drugs in their system.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thank you so much! So, all the talk about the cars in the driveway here was actually just guessing. And the two cars were not both directly in front of JW's house.