MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011

[ChatteringBirds]

Cadaver dogs almost never get it wrong...could they have been wrong here?

I don't personally put any trust in "a dog alerting" as evidence. I dismiss it unless the alert leads to biological evidence that can be proven to exist by science. Having once read for hours on this case, I believe Lisa was kidnapped and they even have an idea by whom. Just my current opinion.

 

[Panniniclaus]

The HRD dog could have been right in alerting but the conclusion that a dead human was present could be wrong.

Why would the kidnapper have to know all of theses details in advance? JMO

You aren't risking it if you have no idea what you are going into. Knowing the layout, work schedules and personal habits would give the edge needed to pull this off. Has to be someone with access to that info.

 

[RANCH]

You aren't risking it if you have no idea what you are going into. Knowing the layout, work schedules and personal habits would give the edge needed to pull this off. Has to be someone with access to that info.

I think it's possible the kidnapper used a minimal amount of advanced knowledge to perpetrate the crime.

Perhaps this person entered occupied homes late at night in the past to steal things and this time decided to steal a child. JMO

 

[Razz]

I came to the conclusion a while back that poor Lisa, who was suffering from a cold was either over medicated or fell out of her crib while Momma was on the front porch downing a tub of wine. When she finally went in to check on her child, she discovered Lisa was no longer breathing or alive. Under cover of darkness, she carried that poor child and threw her in the river. JMO

For the longest time I thought a man who was semi known in the neighborhood, abducted her.

 

[RANCH]

I came to the conclusion a while back that poor Lisa, who was suffering from a cold was either over medicated or fell out of her crib while Momma was on the front porch downing a tub of wine. When she finally went in to check on her child, she discovered Lisa was no longer breathing or alive. Under cover of darkness, she carried that poor child and threw her in the river. JMO

For the longest time I thought a man who was semi known in the neighborhood, abducted her.

What evidence do you have that supports your conclusion?

 

[iamnotagolem]

Not to rehash old discussions but wasn’t Jersey the only person police ruled out as a suspect?

 

[RANCH]

Not to rehash old discussions but wasn’t Jersey the only person police ruled out as a suspect?

Not exactly.

One tip that became public involved a handyman, John “Jersey Joe” Tanko, who had a criminal record and worked in the neighborhood. He dated Megan Wright, who publicly reported her cell phone was called by one of those missing cell phones.

Police never named Tanko a suspect and said he cooperated with investigators who were satisfied with his answers.

Five years later: New theories revealed in baby Lisa Irwin’s disappearance

 

[makinwaffles]

I came to the conclusion a while back that poor Lisa, who was suffering from a cold was either over medicated or fell out of her crib while Momma was on the front porch downing a tub of wine. When she finally went in to check on her child, she discovered Lisa was no longer breathing or alive. Under cover of darkness, she carried that poor child and threw her in the river. JMO

For the longest time I thought a man who was semi known in the neighborhood, abducted her.

The river really is much farther away and less accessable than most people imagine for this location. It's not a recreation river and access points are few and far between. Even the wooded area and creek are further away from the Irwin house than most realise and the creek isn't all that deep to disappear someone.

I'm not saying the idea that an accident happens and was covered up with a disposal is impossible, I'm just saying that there is no way it could have been only the mother on foot performing a disposal that quickly and completely unnoticed.

 

[RANCH]

John Tanko, also known as “Jersey” was a handyman police questioned after a phone call from one of the missing Irwin-Bradley phones led to Megan Wright — Jersey’s girlfriend. Back in November, Kansas City Police Captain Steve Young said Jersey cooperated with the police and they moved on with their investigation.

Baby Lisa’s Parents: Fraudulent Debit Card Charge Not Fully Investigated | FOX 4 Kansas City WDAF-TV | News, Weather, Sports

 

[ChatteringBirds]

In my opinion, the phone call from one of the missing phones is much more likely to be a clue than a red herring, more likely related to the case somehow than not. It has never been explained and needs to be explained.

 

[Razz]

What evidence do you have that supports your conclusion?

Hey Ranch- don't know if this is the thread where we really got into bike boy or not. (I remember you were part of that very long conversation.) But I remember we discussed it alot. And the druggie girlfriend.
One of our Websleuthers did a big research on Jersey (I think it was Jersey.) I was pretty well behind that theory until the Momma of Lisa's atty.
(Timpanno (Spelling!!!)) said something that convinced me it couldn't have been anyone but the mom. What ever he said made it clear to me that no one else could have done something with Lisa other than Mom. (I'm sure he didn't mean to say it but it had to do with the phones and the reception in the area of Lisa's home.) I don't know if it was this thread or another offshoot of the main thread. I have a pretty good memory for some things but not for names). Hope this makes sense. But police had many different theories where Lisa was stashed. (Ceptic tank)?!
Sorry. I shouldn't have jumped in. I'd already come to my own conclusion a while back but I guess I didn't convince others as this thread continues.

 

[RANCH]

Joe Tacopina. What did he say that convinces you of DB's guilt?

Baby Lisa's Parents Get Top Defense Lawyer Joe Tacopina

 

[Razz]

Joe Tacopina. What did he say that convinces you of DB's guilt?

Baby Lisa's Parents Get Top Defense Lawyer Joe Tacopina

I always had a hard time with Tacopina's name and spelling it correctly. I would have to go back and find that thread. But it had to do with the phone and the reach of transmission. As someone said above, the phone call(s) holds the clue.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Occam's Razor - Occam's razor is the principle that, of two explanations that account for all the facts, the simpler one is more likely to be correct. It is applied to a wide range of disciplines, including religion, physics, and medicine.

Lisa's death was an accident. She was over-medicated for her cold as well as the fact that Deb wanted a "baby-free" evening. Deb found Lisa not breathing and either her or Jeremy disposed of her in the river. The missing phones were just part of the cover up to try to make it appear as if there had been a break in. Deb alone couldn't have disposed of large items as well as Lisa, so this was just an add on.

 

[Cottonstar]

Occam's Razor - Occam's razor is the principle that, of two explanations that account for all the facts, the simpler one is more likely to be correct. It is applied to a wide range of disciplines, including religion, physics, and medicine.

Lisa's death was an accident. She was over-medicated for her cold as well as the fact that Deb wanted a "baby-free" evening. Deb found Lisa not breathing and either her or Jeremy disposed of her in the river. The missing phones were just part of the cover up to try to make it appear as if there had been a break in. Deb alone couldn't have disposed of large items as well as Lisa, so this was just an add on.

Yes. This. Just/much like McCann.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Yes. This. Just/much like McCann.

Madeleine McCann? There is a named suspect in her case and that thread is very busy, if you're interested.
As far as Lisa, I hope that's not what happened. How would you explain the phone call?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The missing phones were just part of the cover up

Quote RSBM.
How would you explain the call made from one of them?

 

[norest4thewicked]

It was possibly a butt dial when she was gathering them all up and trying to get them all out of there. I can see that happening.

 

[RANCH]

It was possibly a butt dial when she was gathering them all up and trying to get them all out of there. I can see that happening.

What would be the reason for getting the phones out of there?

 

[RANCH]

Occam's Razor - Occam's razor is the principle that, of two explanations that account for all the facts, the simpler one is more likely to be correct. It is applied to a wide range of disciplines, including religion, physics, and medicine.

Lisa's death was an accident. She was over-medicated for her cold as well as the fact that Deb wanted a "baby-free" evening. Deb found Lisa not breathing and either her or Jeremy disposed of her in the river. The missing phones were just part of the cover up to try to make it appear as if there had been a break in. Deb alone couldn't have disposed of large items as well as Lisa, so this was just an add on.

Where are you getting the "fact" that Deborah wanted a "baby-free" evening?