MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011

Discussion in 'Lisa Irwin' started by Seymour Krelborn, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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    Just to add to the theory that Lisa was "kidnapped" by "someone" who broke in.
     
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  2. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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  3. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    A well thought out plan with little time by a woman who was drinking heavily. I don't buy it. JMO
     
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  4. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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    Not a well thought out plan at all. She panicked when she found Lisa dead. She decided on the "kidnapper" theory and then gathered her phones up to make it look like at least something was taken from the house and Lisa was discarded from that point WITH the phones.
     
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  5. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    A well thought out plan constructed at a moments notice from a drunk and distraught mother who just killed her own baby is what I'm seeing from your theory.

    Nope. No way did that happen IMO. Especially since there's absolutely no evidence that supports it. JMO.
     
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  6. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

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    IMO, she was pretty good functioning at a high alcohol level. She got lucky, and I think she is diabolically "gifted."
     
  7. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    A gifted drunk? What evidence do you have that supports your opinion?
     
  8. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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    Oh, I think Lisa had been dead for a long time before her mother discovered her. I also think that Debra drank often enough to be able to carry out the disposal. There is as much evidence to support her disposing of the baby as there is a kidnapper. It's all in what you choose to believe.
     
  9. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    What is the evidence that DB killed and disposed of Lisa's body?
     
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  10. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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    What is the evidence that she didn't? The cadaver dogs and a statement by their attorney was enough to convince me. (No, I don't remember the words, but it was enough for me.)
     
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  11. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    Interesting comment. The fact that she was impaired by alcohol makes it very unlikely to me.

    A single uncorroborated dog alert that looks more like a means to get a search warrant is extremely weak to the point that I don't consider it evidence at all.

    This is the second post that mentions a mysterious statement made by an unnamed attorney. Kind of hard to understand the point that posters are trying to make with it. JMO

    Are you still writing a book on this case? I would be interested in reading it.

    Attorney discounts cadaver dog's alert in missing baby probe
     
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  12. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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    She had 5+ hours from the time her friend went home until the time Jeremy came home. People sober up. Plus, as I said before, her being a regular drinker, she probably did not ever get overly intoxicated to the point that she couldn't function. I think her "blacking out" story was more for show than anything else. But, let's say that did happen. She is still responsible in my opinion since she wasn't alert enough to protect Lisa. I don't believe that at all. But, it's just another cover up for Debra.

    A HR dog DID alert on the carpet next to the parents bed. While I do not know the exact statistics, I do know that a false positive is very unlikely in HR dogs. What else could explain that?

    I have my book about Lisa on the back burner and am finishing up two other books first. I had information that someone else was in the process of doing a book about Lisa, so I decided to wait until there was more info. It doesn't seem to be the case though unless they are just slow. It was that Private Investigator (can't remember his name) who told me personally that a book was being written.

    At one time I got a lot of information about this case from a person who works for KCPD. The reason that they are so quiet about this case is that there is no statute of limitations on murder. I can guarantee you and everyone else here that unless they have done a complete turn around in the last 5 years, Debra has been and still is their number one suspect.
     
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  13. Panniniclaus

    Panniniclaus Member

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    Some good points made here. I could go either way.
     
  14. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    So she could have sobered up and the dog alert. Not much there.

    Rumors about KCPD get a big F. JMO
     
  15. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    I was on the fence with this case for a very long time and you being on the fence is an understandable and legitimate position to be on in this case.

    I fell off the fence after doing a great deal of research on HRD dogs. That dog alert is the only piece of information that LE has given us that points to Lisa being killed that night in her home. That research tells me that it's just not reliable enough to come to that conclusion. JMO
     
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  16. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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    I had been on the fence and then off the fence more times than I could count until I also researched a lot of things with this case. This includes Debra failing the polygraph and America's number one deception expert saying that she believed that Debra was being deceptive. (Renee Ellory)
    The hit from the HR dog, the changes in story many times, the boys (or at least one of them) hearing a clicking sound coming from Debra's room that sounded like a wrapping tape roll being used, what certain people in the active investigation of the PD were saying, and so much more, makes me believe that Debra is guilty of at least disposing of Lisa. I don't feel she murdered her outright, and don't know to what extent Jeremy was involved (if at all). But there are just too many circumstances that Debra is the one to make Lisa disappear. Horribly sad, I know.
     
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  17. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    Deborah did say that LE told her she failed the polygraph when in fact she "passed". So maybe she failed it maybe she didn't. I have learned that LE will sometimes tell a suspect they failed the polygraph when they in fact didn't in an attempt to get a confession.

    So we have a questionable HRD alert and a questionable polygraph but no physical evidence that proves that DB killed her own baby. So for me, nothing to convince me she did it.

    Five years later: New theories revealed in baby Lisa Irwin’s disappearance
     
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  18. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked True Crime Writer

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    We will have to agree to disagree on this then. :) Zero evidence that Lisa was kidnapped. But, I appreciate the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  19. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall

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    I agree. I hope to see you post more on WS. In fact there have been some threads where we are on the same page and I look forward to posting with you in the future.
     
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  20. HMSHood

    HMSHood Admiral-Class Battlecruiser

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    We do not know what really happened. Anything is possible.
     
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