MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #9

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Serious question...how would the ME ever be able to determine her death to be suicide? Just by lack of evidence that someone else killed her? I would think that unless it was literally a spur of the moment decision to end her own life, Jessica would have left some sort of suicide note, as we have heard that she wanted to write a book about her life. I can't accept that she killed herself, and while I know many cases of suicide by fire exist, I just cannot fathom doing that even if I wanted to kill myself. I can't imagine worse ways to die than by fire or by drowning. JMO
 
BirdycatNY said:
I don't think BB or (SR etc.) have been ruled out along with any other individuals. Since LE/FBI have been very tight-lipped about investigating this case, they may be waiting for someone to make a mistake/move. I wouldn't rule out someone who could been seen carrying a filled gas can within hours of Jessica being set on fire plus SM rants etc. at all. If there is more than one person involved in murdering Jessica, they most likely will start to turn on one another. Hopefully someone will go to LE as it may be better for them in the long run, i.e. plea bargains because I don't see perpetrators lives being the same even if they try to carry on with their "secret". Always Jmo.
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What if it were two brothers or two sisters or a brother and a sister? Do you think that would make it less likely that they would start to turn on each other? Just wondering.
 
EllaMae said:
No one outside of LE knows what evidence they have or don't have, and the time investment needed at the crime scene is almost always based on what's actually there to be recovered.
I don't see how anyone can jump to the conclusion that any evidence has been mishandled, and that the whole case has been botched based on what has been gleaned from the media. Outside of LE....no one really knows anything.

I believe that most of that kind of thinking comes from prejudice about the region in which this crime occurred. Don't assume that the investigators have had no training or aren't that smart just because they work in rural Mississippi. All the references about country music and good ol' boys.....really not accurate. The actual problem is the same all over the US....a rise in crime and cuts in funding due to the lingering recession. That means less resources for LE and investigators who are stretched too thin,especially in poor rural communities.
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I think you nailed it. I promise I will scroll and roll past the repeated accusations of evidence being bungled by the good 'ol boys in LE. I seriously doubt a vehicle--so incinerated it was a pile of ashes after being flooded with water from the fire department--offered any usable evidence.

The problem isn't just violence, there is rising gang violence throughout the country and an unwillingness of witnesses to come forward for fear of retaliation. It isn't just a rural problem.

JMO
 
New1 said:
What if it were two brothers or two sisters or a brother and a sister? Do you think that would make it less likely that they would start to turn on each other? Just wondering.
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It depends on the family dynamics I guess and if more than two perpetrators and other factors. If hypothetically perpetrators were two close brothers that lived together then they may not talk so much because they can keep tabs on each other. And if brother/sister or girlfriend/boyfriend the male (assuming physically more capable) could threaten sister/girlfriend to keep quiet or vice-versa and if live together it would be easier. If there are 3 or more perps or perps do not live together, my guess is they will start to get really paranoid, especially in that town because I bet everyone is pointing fingers at numerous people. I also think at least one person is "mentally disturbed/psychopath/psychotic" so they may be capable of hurting someone else. If one of the perpetrators is not originally from the area, but lives there it will be easier to keep quiet. But in general I think co-conspirators will start to get twitchy and paranoid or hopefully their conscience will get the better of them. It will come down to self-preservation if more than 1 person involved though. But Jmo/
 
New1 said:
What if it were two brothers or two sisters or a brother and a sister? Do you think that would make it less likely that they would start to turn on each other? Just wondering.
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I doubt anybody turns until after they are indicted and taken into custody.

JMO
 
From prior thread, ~post#906, by MSCJgrad:
".... I sincerely wish that somebody with a great deal of experience in PR managing the families of victims of crime would step up, and represent JC here- go knocking on doors, seeking media coverage, seeking reward donations, seeking funds for a respectable private investigator, seeking justice.... " bbm sbm

bbm #1
Managing victim's family ---- like how, what?

bbm #2
IIRC, FBI reward is ~$25,ooo and other reward is ~$18,ooo-$20,ooo.
How much more $ is needed to bring forth an informant?


MSCJgrad, glad you joined W/S and this thread.
 
I don't know that more fundraising would help but the idea of someone "managing" parents or acting as a spokesperson is not a terrible one. Mom has given some statements which drew suspicions from some and dad has made some statements that IMO has gotten him shut out of being kept abreast of the facts of the investigation practically from day one. I think both would benefit from someone experienced in PR helping them keep Jessica's case in the news without saying things which could be harmful or misleading while doing so. Again, JMO.

As to the idea someone mentioned in teh last thread that hiring a PI could be a crime relating to interfering with an ongoing investigation, that is news to me. An experienced and professional PI does not step on LE toes, goes about the business of generating tips and developing leads all outside of the investigation and apart from it.
 
tlcya said:
I don't know that more fundraising would help but the idea of someone "managing" parents or acting as a spokesperson is not a terrible one. Mom has given some statements which drew suspicions from some and dad has made some statements that IMO has gotten him shut out of being kept abreast of the facts of the investigation practically from day one. I think both would benefit from someone experienced in PR helping them keep Jessica's case in the news without saying things which could be harmful or misleading while doing so. Again, JMO.

As to the idea someone mentioned in teh last thread that hiring a PI could be a crime relating to interfering with an ongoing investigation, that is news to me. An experienced and professional PI does not step on LE toes, goes about the business of generating tips and developing leads all outside of the investigation and apart from it.
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In a murder that happened close to me, and featured here on WS, it was a PI who developed a relationship over time with the long-named prime POI, which resulted in the POI leading the PI to the remains of his victim, Kelli Bordeaux, more than two years after her murder, and after Fayetteville, NC Police had seemingly given up investigating. Even more recently, the same PI located more remains of Kelli's that had been overlooked initially, including her broken hyoid bone.

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/loc...cle_2cc9dace-102b-5dea-a291-1c314d2e37a6.html

http://www.wral.com/detective-finds...-slain-bragg-soldier-kelli-bordeaux/14350042/
 
tlcya said:
As to the idea someone mentioned in teh last thread that hiring a PI could be a crime relating to interfering with an ongoing investigation, that is news to me. An experienced and professional PI does not step on LE toes, goes about the business of generating tips and developing leads all outside of the investigation and apart from it.
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I quite agree that a reputable and experienced PI could prove invaluable. We had a case up year last year (Jeffrey Boucher) where a PI stepped in to help his wife in the investigation. Money from fundraising could help defray expenses that would be required. This case is at real conundrum and any additional help would be beneficial IMO.
 
Something just crossed my mind, and I wonder what y'all think about it. Since so little information is being released in this case, could there already be one or more persons in custody who have been arrested for JC's murder and that information is being withheld by LE because they believe there are more arrests to come? I know arrest records are public information, but do all arrests HAVE to be reported to the public or can they be kept secret?
 
Both are good questions. I'm doing this on my iPad, so please excuse any technical difficulties
1) Managing family---how, what?
Many families of victims of crimes find it necessary or beneficial to have a 'family representative', someone with experience in public relations and law (often an attorney), to speak on behalf of the family. This is helpful for many reasons. This would have helped initially, as the dad let a couple of things slip that LE was/is not prepared to confirm/deny, the sister has said a few things, and the mother as well. The person hired to represent the family, preferably an attorney, can use their knowledge and experience to filter what is communicated to media, as well as take some of the 'grunt' of the questions, which has to be so painful for the family to rehash. Also, said attorney knows what questions to be asking LE, when to back off, etc. Their attorney will also be up to date and informed in the event that a civil suit needs to be brought to the courts. The primary function of a family rep would be to safeguard the interests of the victim's family. They are in an extremely traumatizing, emotionally draining nightmare. Having someone with experience in such cases to help navigate through things, such as interviews, following up with LE, etc. can be greatly beneficial.

2) How much more $ is needed to bring forth an informant?

That's the million dollar question!! (Some pun intended). Who knows! Part of me says increasing the reward amount to a figure that would allow for a 'clean break' from Panola County, for life, might do the trick. Another part of me thinks that no amount would be enough to ensure that, as the family trees are too deeply rooted there, with multigenerational families coexisting, I recognize the fear that must be so real to those who know who is responsible. I'm leaning towards neither, and it being more of a situational circumstance in which someone decides to come forth, rather than an, 'OMG, I want $53,000' type of scenario.
I think, not certain, but I think that when I wrote that initial post, I was more enthusiastic about expressing the need for a Private Investigator to become involved. Having a representative for the family or increased reward money are second to that on my personal wish list. Even just within the interview on i❤️Radio with JC's mom, there were so many questions that were unanswered. So little awareness of what I see to be critical aspects of this case have been overlooked, and not to fault her mother-God knows what she must be going through.
All JMO/IMO, and thanks, I'm glad I joined this thread as well. There are some seriously good sleuths on here who have provided some excellent banter regarding this case. I love a good discussion. Keep the questions coming! Just don't expect me to answer them tonight, lol, it's almost my bedtime.

al66pine said:
From prior thread, ~post#906, by MSCJgrad:
".... I sincerely wish that somebody with a great deal of experience in PR managing the families of victims of crime would step up, and represent JC here- go knocking on doors, seeking media coverage, seeking reward donations, seeking funds for a respectable private investigator, seeking justice.... " bbm sbm

bbm #1
Managing victim's family ---- like how, what?

bbm #2
IIRC, FBI reward is ~$25,ooo and other reward is ~$18,ooo-$20,ooo.
How much more $ is needed to bring forth an informant?


MSCJgrad, glad you joined W/S and this thread.
Click to expand...
 
BirdycatNY said:
It depends on the family dynamics I guess and if more than two perpetrators and other factors. If hypothetically perpetrators were two close brothers that lived together then they may not talk so much because they can keep tabs on each other. And if brother/sister or girlfriend/boyfriend the male (assuming physically more capable) could threaten sister/girlfriend to keep quiet or vice-versa and if live together it would be easier. If there are 3 or more perps or perps do not live together, my guess is they will start to get really paranoid, especially in that town because I bet everyone is pointing fingers at numerous people. I also think at least one person is "mentally disturbed/psychopath/psychotic" so they may be capable of hurting someone else. If one of the perpetrators is not originally from the area, but lives there it will be easier to keep quiet. But in general I think co-conspirators will start to get twitchy and paranoid or hopefully their conscience will get the better of them. It will come down to self-preservation if more than 1 person involved though. But Jmo/
Click to expand...

Re: one of them being mentally disturbed/psychopath/psychotic - oh, yyyeeeaaaahhh and I certainly have an idea that's female. Just my opinion, of course. But...
 
BirdycatNY said:
1. While suicide is plausible in theory, there is nothing that indicates it at this point. 2. Did Jessica have access to the amount of accelerant needed to douse car and herself? 3. Was Jessica on the upswing or downswing? 4. Was there a suicide note? 5. Why douse the entire car and Jessica was found outside of car? 6. Why separate phone? I think an accident is more likely than suicide and both are less likely than murder. If hypothetically Jessica were into meth and some explosion in her car is more plausible to me than suicide. But even that isn't as plausible as murder. It seems to me there are a number of potential suspects, and some of them seem pretty dangerous if we go by arrest records, i.e. drug trafficking, domestic violence, etc/ Jmo/

ETA- I bet that if Jessica wanted to kill herself, she would have more access to some weapon (like gun she could borrow from acquaintance) 7. that would not be nearly as painful a death as self-immolation.
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1. As there have been no charges filed and no person or persons deemed suspects or persons of interest, we have only the word of a local law enforcement apparatus that, I submit, seems entirely inadequate to the investigation, viz. the apparently shoddy crime scene investigation, curiously difficult to believe statements (she spoke to first responders in spite of her condition), etc., that this is indeed a homicide. A suicide would more readily fit the facts we know. As well, suicide better serves the prime Occam's Razor precept: "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." (Wiki)

2. Accelerant would not be difficult to obtain if indeed it was used it.

3. We do not know her actual state of mind; she had a job lined up, we're told, but one cannot really know another's psyche, and she was an individual with a good many problems, problems which perhaps were inescapable in the short term. This, I think, is the strongest indicator that she might have killed herself. Disappointment in her life might have fed a residual guilt about outcomes and led to the painful choice of a self-punishing death by fire. And, we are told, she purchased over twice as much gasoline as usual a short time before the fire.

4. "It is estimated that 25–30% of suicides are accompanied by a note." In other words, most are not thus accompanied. (Wiki)

5. A suicide's actions are by definition irrational, but this perhaps seems more like a killer's action, I agree.

6. Either scenario would fit this. It proves nothing. If anything, it is only an argument against accidental death.

7. One does not always choose to go gentle into that good night. At least nine of the car fire suicide victims I linked above were women -- just a bit under 30% I think. Surprising, perhaps, but there it is. And finally, on a percentage basis alone, this is much more likely a suicide: the murder rate in America is about 6 per 100,000; for suicides it's 10.8. (LiveScience)
 
New1 said:
Something just crossed my mind, and I wonder what y'all think about it. Since so little information is being released in this case, could there already be one or more persons in custody who have been arrested for JC's murder and that information is being withheld by LE because they believe there are more arrests to come? I know arrest records are public information, but do all arrests HAVE to be reported to the public or can they be kept secret?
Click to expand...

It's a matter of public record. The defendant does have the right to due process. I doubt that anyone taken into custody for this crime is going to be quiet about it. Many seem to be addicted to social media.

JMO
 
Wfgodot, that was a freaking awesome list + I love your back-up on all the points...this information is totally fascinating to me even aside from Jessica's case. I never knew some of those more precisely defined stats (25-30% of suicides have a note of some sort? I've never really thought about it deeply but in some ways that seems low to me, and in others, it seems about right.)... wow. Thank you.

The only only only point I want to refocus attention on is this one:

wfgodot said:
And finally, on a percentage basis alone, this is much more likely a suicide: the murder rate in America is about 6 per 100,000; for suicides it's 10.8. (LiveScience)
Click to expand...

...because to be accurate, we need to reframe what you mean by "on a percentage basis alone." I *think* you mean that in terms of the whole population, with no specifics as to the *cause* of death, the *manner* of death was much more likely to have been a suicide than a homicide.

Like: Ok, Person X died. Without knowing anything further detail-wise, it is statistically more likely this person died due to a suicide than a homicide.

BUT: If we say, hey, Person X died due to thermal injuries and an accelerant was shown to have been used... then given those details, it would be a more accurate estimation of the manner of death if we look at the subset: Deaths by Thermal Injury and the breakdown of those percentages. Of all deaths caused by thermal injury, what percent were determined to be accidental, homidical, suicidal, etc.

My personal guess is that you'd see a much larger percentage of burning deaths that are actually accidental rather than a homicide or suicide...
 
MSCJgrad said:
.... hiring a private investigator....With expertise, private investigators can take an unsolved crime or a cold case file and scour it with fresh eyes and new perspective. With new insight they can then begin to follow the evidence, across typical jurisdiction-limits, setting aside any preconceived notions and allowing the evidence to tell the story (http://pursuitmag.com/private-investigators-assisting-with-unsolved-crimes-and-cold-cases/)".[/QUOTE] bbm sbm

Undoubtedly some ppl would speak more freely to a PI than to LE or anyone assoc'ed w crim justice system. Or to any non-LE.
PIs would have some advantages in working across multiple LE jurisdictions.

In this case w st. crime bureau, FBI, ?(ATF?) & County sheriff's office already involved, is jurisdictional blindness an issue here? IDK.
Why would ppl in Courtland, Batesville, etc. MS talk to a PI - presumably a stranger strolling or barging into town? IDK.
And be truthful? IDK.
Why, at this early-ish stage of investigation, would LE/investigating agencies share case files w any PI? IDK.

Admittedly PIs have solved some murders, IDK if this case has reached this stage yet. Hoping it's solved soon.

RIP, Jessica.
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My thinking is it is too soon to bring a PI in. Everyone in this town is still in fear and looking over their shoulder. IMO. A stranger, PI, in town would get absolutely nowhere! It would be a waste of money. The outside agencies are going to have to leave so the citizens feel a sense their town is back to normal. It is going to take time before people resume their "regular" activities. That is why I have questioned the arrest of Mister and the woman (forget her name). One would think this group of friends of JC would try to stay out of LE's attention.

Even as time passes, I don't know how effective a PI would be due to being a stranger. I am sure there are ways to go undercover, such as moving in to work some where. However, that is expensive. And thinking about it, I would not trust the sheriffs department to keep it under wraps. Sorry to say that, but if they come out of this unscathed, it will be surprising.

My opinions only!
 
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