Muslim woman cites gym after interrupted prayer

[reb]

everything. and yes if enough people in my religion were going psyhotic, had a tendency towards violence and blowing up airplanes,, and treated women like subhumans, i would definitely disassociate myself from that religion.
then again i don't associate myself with any- much easier!

 

[windovervocalcords]

Good thing no WS posters identify themselves as Muslims. They would take alot of heat around here.

On the other hand, it would be of great benefit to the topic discussion to have a dialogue with average Muslim-Americans. To have questions posed back and forth in a kind way with an effort toward understanding each other.


Here is a marvelous resource, 101 Tools for Tolerance:
http://www.tolerance.org/101_tools/index.html

 

[Details]

everything. and yes if enough people in my religion were going psyhotic, had a tendency towards violence and blowing up airplanes,, and treated women like subhumans, i would definitely disassociate myself from that religion.
then again i don't associate myself with any- much easier!

Awfully broad brush to tar 22% of the entire world's population with. You could find some pretty awful things to say about Catholics too, if you want to use the same criteria. Hmm - wonder how many serial killers are or were raised Catholic, around the world? How many wifebeaters and such.

I'm not part of any religion either - but I sure would never expect someone to abandon their religion just because a nutjob, criminal, or beast, or even a bunch of them also claims it.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Awfully broad brush to tar 22% of the entire world's population with. You could find some pretty awful things to say about Catholics too, if you want to use the same criteria. Hmm - wonder how many serial killers are or were raised Catholic, around the world? How many wifebeaters and such.

I'm not part of any religion either - but I sure would never expect someone to abandon their religion just because a nutjob, criminal, or beast, or even a bunch of them also claims it.

Here is a strange cult in Japan that engaged in terrorist plot with biological weapons. They used Hindu and Buddhist iconography.

They do not represent the Hindu or Buddhist faiths.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no4/olson.htm

 

[Details]

Here is a strange cult in Japan that engaged in terrorist plot with biological weapons. They used Hindu and Buddhist iconography.

They do not represent the Hindu or Buddhist faiths.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no4/olson.htm

The ones that gassed that subway? Yeah, good example.

 

[windovervocalcords]

The ones that gassed that subway? Yeah, good example.

Hindu and Buddhist faiths are non-violent. Think Gandhi and the Dalai Lama.

Yet, I have to tell you that I have met people who tell me that Buddhists believe in "an eye for an eye". There is enormous ignorance about many of the world's religions.

I've had people tell me they believe something counter to religioius teachings they have not studied because they heard a story someone told them.

 

[Nova]

Hindu and Buddhist faiths are non-violent. Think Gandhi and the Dalai Lama.

Yet, I have to tell you that I have met people who tell me that Buddhists believe in "an eye for an eye". There is enormous ignorance about many of the world's religions.

I've had people tell me they believe something counter to religioius teachings they have not studied because they heard a story someone told them.

Ah, yes. Even people with a little education make that mistake. I'll never forget trying to explain to undergrads why "karma" and the Western concept of "poetic justice" are really not the same ideas.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Ah, yes. Even people with a little education make that mistake. I'll never forget trying to explain to undergrads why "karma" and the Western concept of "poetic justice" are really not the same ideas.

Good point Nova,

When people use the phrase "what goes around, comes around" they are at least in the ballpark of discussing karma.

Poetic justice? Hmm. Maybe not.

I thought I'd put this example in because there is little controversy about Hindus and Buddhists normally being associated with terrorism yet here is a bizarre cult that distorted the teachings of both religions for nefarious ends.

The point is that the religion of Islam IS a peaceful. There are distortions of the teachings especially by criminal elements who are using misunderstanding of jihad to harm innocent people.

It is ridiculous for myself to do anything else but say that the cult in Japan that used bioterrorism is not representative of Hinduism or Buddhism. I can say this with the authority of someone who has studied both and practices one of those faiths.

Some posters think that all Muslims who are not actively spooking for terrorists in their midst are complicit. That is wrong. It is as wrong as expecting all Christians to take responsibility for the nutty terrorists in their own midst who bomb abortion clinics.

The majority of the world's Muslims are peaceful. They've got a few bad apples in the barrel, maybe even some groups of bad apples and a very shrewd Osama Bin Laden who can spin the words of a naive American President who refuses to change course to his end.

 

[Details]

Religions are so tricky, even if you know about them. There's what is written in the holy book, what the traditions are, what the people actually do, then, to complicate it further, each of these apply to every region, country, city, and church individually where the religion is practiced a little or a lot differently than the next area.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Religions are so tricky, even if you know about them. There's what is written in the holy book, what the traditions are, what the people actually do, then, to complicate it further, each of these apply to every region, country, city, and church individually where the religion is practiced a little or a lot differently than the next area.

Which is why broad, sweeping generalizations by non-practioners of a faith in question are not helpful.

I am not saying you personally do this.

 

[reb]

not helpful to whom? my right to say i don't like religion is covered by the something called the first amendment of the bill of rights which protects freedom of speech. something that many religious people would love to do away with.

 

[Autumn2004]

I did a little research and it sounds like there may have been an undertow of riff in that particular chain of gyms stemming from a decision made in October (it is mentioned in the above article). Apparantly a Muslim woman demanded a seperate, private work out area for women because in their culture, it goes against the religion for a man to see a woman dressed in workout clothing. She started a petition and won and from what I read, it was a fairly unpopular decision.

I belong to fitness usa here in michigan, not from dearborn though. Their gyms are separate- women on tuesday, thursday, saturday and men on monday, wednesday, and friday. The only area where men might see a woman would be in the hallway possibly for ups or mailmen. thats it! The other areas are completely private where the changing/shower areas, sauna, jacuzzi and pool area. I have been going there for 15 years and its always been separate and a nice gym. It's a nice chain here nationwide for your membership as it has contracts with other gyms and its cheap, they have a lifetime membership that is not a ridiculous price. Dearborn is full of the muslim population and quite a bit of hindu's also so I can see it taking effect.

This is a ridiculous issue regarding the prayer time. There are plenty of dressing rooms you can use with no time limits and she would have enough room to do her prayer on her own, most people do not use them since unless your shy or plan on taking a shower its easier to do just a quick change in front of your locker. I have used my towel around my waist times before when I felt uncomfortable being completely exposed. There was no reason she needed to do it in front of this other woman's locker!

 

[Autumn2004]

Some posters think that all Muslims who are not actively spooking for terrorists in their midst are complicit. That is wrong. It is as wrong as expecting all Christians to take responsibility for the nutty terrorists in their own midst who bomb abortion clinics.

QUOTE]

The muslims I worked with which by the way was the whole staff of employees including my boss. I did pr work for a therapy contract company with therapists from pakistan (muslim), india( hindu), and england (hindu only) They were nice to me and I had no problems working with any of them. As a christian you are suppose to be kind to your enemies it is crazy to think ti would be a christian thing to hurt anyone.

There was a slight difference as I was seen as an equal among my hindu friends. We went shopping, out to eat and I babysat for them a few times.

My other coworkers who were from pakistan did not hold the same relationship with me by their choice. The few I knew (not saying all muslim's are this way) looked at women differently and definitely lower on the scale of a professional relationship.

Four of them were married and their wives did not live here. They all lived with the husband's parents and did not have bank accounts because it wasnt done in their community. The parents of their mate would discern how much money they could have like an allowance.

My three closest friends Sugan, Sheila and Pradipta said it was a common practice among the muslim population.

I think the hardest thing about this is the news stories happen to be about the horrible ones. Honestly if I was in another country and only knew of the atrocities some of our military has done in their countries I would look at americans in that way. For example, the 14 year old girl who was targeted by four of our military men, raped repeatedly, beaten and burned to death including her family; just because they had been attracted to her walking by.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Some posters think that all Muslims who are not actively spooking for terrorists in their midst are complicit. That is wrong. It is as wrong as expecting all Christians to take responsibility for the nutty terrorists in their own midst who bomb abortion clinics.

QUOTE]

The muslims I worked with which by the way was the whole staff of employees including my boss. I did pr work for a therapy contract company with therapists from pakistan (muslim), india( hindu), and england (hindu only) They were nice to me and I had no problems working with any of them. As a christian you are suppose to be kind to your enemies it is crazy to think ti would be a christian thing to hurt anyone.

There was a slight difference as I was seen as an equal among my hindu friends. We went shopping, out to eat and I babysat for them a few times.

My other coworkers who were from pakistan did not hold the same relationship with me by their choice. The few I knew (not saying all muslim's are this way) looked at women differently and definitely lower on the scale of a professional relationship.

Four of them were married and their wives did not live here. They all lived with the husband's parents and did not have bank accounts because it wasnt done in their community. The parents of their mate would discern how much money they could have like an allowance.

My three closest friends Sugan, Sheila and Pradipta said it was a common practice among the muslim population.

I think the hardest thing about this is the news stories happen to be about the horrible ones. Honestly if I was in another country and only knew of the atrocities some of our military has done in their countries I would look at americans in that way. For example, the 14 year old girl who was targeted by four of our military men, raped repeatedly, beaten and burned to death including her family; just because they had been attracted to her walking by.

You hit the nail on the head in your post by your last paragraph especially.

I know more Hindus than Muslims. I've known quite a few Sikhs and Sufi's but few Muslims except when traveling.

The Muslims I know are not very traditional or religious per se.

The media stories and peoples fears and prejudices interact.

 

[GlitchWizard]

Exactly. Christians pray before meals all the time in restaraunts and you hardly notice. When I eat dinner with my grandma we all have to pary before we eat, in publc or not. I have never noticed any stares form others.

I stare.

Simply because I pray, too, but you couldn't tell by my posture or actions. I am very discrete - but not because I am embarassed, just because it's short, to the point, and by the time I did any posture change it would be over. So... I stare when someone else prays openly, but I don't stare in a negative way.

I do stare, though. You just don't notice 'cause you're busy praying.

 

[CyberLaw]

Just to weigh in here, I have meet the greatest people of the Jewish faith, they are really nice people. I have meet other Jewish people, who are not.

There are many kind Catholics who do outstanding work and are proud of their religion. Then we have the horrible people, like priest and nuns who abuse kids.

In all religions there are good and bad, people who "pervert" the religion for their own ends, and others who oppose those who "perver" their religion for terrorism and war.

A video game, a Christian video game, enbraces killing and spirtual warfare as a game, killing people who are non Christian, who don't convert to Christianity. But I thought Christiantiy was about acceptance and love and helping others.

We have an evangical leader who "employs" gay men for his own purposes, and then preaches against them.

It is the agenda of a person from a particular religion who uses that religion for their own means and ends.

I will not generalize about any one religion as in "all are bad in that particular" faith and religion. I have not meet them all, I don't know, I cannot qualify any statement that a person says about that.

I have meet mean people of color, and great people of color. Am I to "lump " all in the latter" due to a "few bad apples" in the former.

No.....not a chance.

 

[Details]

not helpful to whom? my right to say i don't like religion is covered by the something called the first amendment of the bill of rights which protects freedom of speech. something that many religious people would love to do away with.

Not helpful is not the same thing as saying that it shouldn't be allowed. I've got my right to say that all white people are nothing but martians in disguise - but that's not helpful either. As much as I'd like to be a martian!


You can say you don't like religions, and Wind can say it's not helpful - that's the first amendment on both of your sides. Not that it applies here - this is a private forum.... :silenced: