Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James Freund #10

[Ozoner]

I do believe to have read,that LE timed the car ride from the hospital to the CS,where Pam and James were found and it couldn't be done.

I don't know,how long that ride is from the hospital,(where Lonnies wife was) to Locklair Road,but if LE checked it, you can approximately calculate the time Lonnie must have left,the hospital.
Didn't LE stated,that Lonnie would needed half the time more,even with speeding to kill Pam and James,wich seems unlikely,if you consider the car jacking theory...

Has the ballistics report been made public? It would be nice to be able to completely rule out the possibility that sloppy work made a ballistics match where there actually wasn't one.

 

[worldwatcher]

Has the ballistics report been made public? It would be nice to be able to completely rule out the possibility that sloppy work made a ballistics match where there actually wasn't one.

Sorry,Idk.
Read some ongoing, inconclusive post about it.upthread

 

[worldwatcher]

Just saw, that there a book written,on Amazone,where one of the first previous theory seems to be pursued.

It's called The Chase of the Condor .

 

[Betty P]

Just saw, that there a book written,on Amazone,where one of the first previous theory seems to be pursued.

It's called The Chase of the Condor .

I just looked that one up. It was written by someone who thought the victims were from Argentina. Glad that’s been cleared up.

I still don’t put a lot of stock in Henry’s alibi. Wives will often make up a story to protect their husband. JMO, the gun matching the bullets used to kill Pam and Jim is much more solid evidence. IIRC it was SLED who did the ballistics testing.

 

[Ozoner]

I just looked that one up. It was written by someone who thought the victims were from Argentina. Glad that’s been cleared up.

I still don’t put a lot of stock in Henry’s alibi. Wives will often make up a story to protect their husband. JMO, the gun matching the bullets used to kill Pam and Jim is much more solid evidence. IIRC it was SLED who did the ballistics testing.

The alibi wasn't from the wife, though. It was from multiple staff members at the hospital where LH's wife was being treated.

 

[Betty P]

The alibi wasn't from the wife, though. It was from multiple staff members at the hospital where LH's wife was being treated.

I've tried to find that evidence (and I trust you that it exists) in old threads and newspapers from back then, but no luck. Some day when I get some time, I'll try to locate it. If anyone has a link, let me know.

I still believe that the ballistics evidence is more trustworthy than alibi witnesses. I assume Henry's wife was in the hospital for at least a few days. It's possible they got the days mixed up. Wasn't the gun discovered over a month after the murders? It's long enough that memories can fade a little. JMO

Falsely labeling the victims as drug dealers, etc. (when zero evidence existed of that) was a terrible thing to do. Does anyone know where that rumor started? TIA

 

[worldwatcher]

I just looked that one up. It was written by someone who thought the victims were from Argentina. Glad that’s been cleared up.

I still don’t put a lot of stock in Henry’s alibi. Wives will often make up a story to protect their husband. JMO, the gun matching the bullets used to kill Pam and Jim is much more solid evidence. IIRC it was SLED who did the ballistics testing.

Lonnie did filed the numbers off, of the gun himself,so he must have known that the gun was used...
Maybe someone asked him to get rid of it,but due to his alcohol habits,he forget?
If I remember correctly,he was pulled over for DUI,when LE found the gun.

 

[fred&edna]

Can anyone refresh my memory on why it was thought the gun was part of a large weapons theft elsewhere in the state? TIA!

 

[wary]

Lonnie did filed the numbers off, of the gun himself,so he must have known that the gun was used...
Maybe someone asked him to get rid of it,but due to his alcohol habits,he forget?
If I remember correctly,he was pulled over for DUI,when LE found the gun.

He could have filed off the numbers under the impression, possibly accurate, that it was a stolen gun.

 

[worldwatcher]

He could have filed off the numbers under the impression, possibly accurate, that it was a stolen gun.

Have re-read ,this on A Murder Weapon — Handsome mystery couple found murdered in South Carolina — Crime Library
"found a gun that had part of its serial number filed off in the man's car."

@fred&edna
Maybe LE could have traced the serial number part,to the burglary in Raleigh-Durham area?

 

[T rex]

Can anyone refresh my memory on why it was thought the gun was part of a large weapons theft elsewhere in the state? TIA!

Have re-read ,this on A Murder Weapon — Handsome mystery couple found murdered in South Carolina — Crime Library
"found a gun that had part of its serial number filed off in the man's car."

@fred&edna
Maybe LE could have traced the serial number part,to the burglary in Raleigh-Durham area?

Here's something with a little about it.

When I first saw this years ago I thought that GH may have been living in Latta at the time because it refers to him as a "Latta man" not once but twice. I can see a reporter thinking this because he hadn't been identified yet but I don't know why LE wouldn't know to find him in Wadesboro, unless they went to Latta to question other people. We still don't know who else could have been in the car with Henry that night or what he said he was doing there. I personally believe LE was already in the right place (Latta) but they probably couldn't have known that yet, not without going to Wadesboro first. IMO.

The Sumter Daily Item
Jan 28 1977
Pg 1

 

[Betty P]

Here's something with a little about it.

When I first saw this years ago I thought that GH may have been living in Latta at the time because it refers to him as a "Latta man" not once but twice. I can see a reporter thinking this because he hadn't been identified yet but I don't know why LE wouldn't know to find him in Wadesboro, unless they went to Latta to question other people. We still don't know who else could have been in the car with Henry that night or what he said he was doing there. I personally believe LE was already in the right place (Latta) but they probably couldn't have known that yet, not without going to Wadesboro first. IMO.

The Sumter Daily Item
Jan 28 1977
Pg 1

View attachment 409678

Maybe local LE (wrongly) assumed that since they didn't know the identity of the victims, they shouldn't pursue and prosecute the killer(s).

If that's the case, it might explain why LE down there is still refusing to pursue the case.

Terrible logic, but I can see some coming to that conclusion, thinking "well maybe the dead people deserved it". It was the 70's in rural South Carolina.

JMO, it could still be solved. It would take someone going down there and snooping around, asking questions, etc. I have a hunch there might still be living witnesses to the crime or at least people who heard the killers talking about it, knew of them trying to get rid of the gun, the vehicle that Jim and Pam were driving, etc. That vehicle (whether motorcycle, car or van) had to end up somewhere. JMO

 

[worldwatcher]

Just a question, is there a place, called Sumter,in North Carolina?

 

[Dragonfyree]

Just a question, is there a place, called Sumter,in North Carolina?

I don't think in North Carolina, but there is a Sumter, Georgia a Sumter County in Florida and a Sumter, Nebraska.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Just a question, is there a place, called Sumter,in North Carolina?

Not sure what this question refers to. The Sumter (Daily) Item is still being published in Sumter, SC. There is also a Sumter St. in Durham NC, the city where the gun was originally stolen. It's only a block long and is part of the Duke University campus now. But there is no town named Sumter in NC that I am aware of.

 

[worldwatcher]

I don't think in North Carolina, but there is a Sumter, Georgia a Sumter County in Florida and a Sumter, Nebraska.

Okay,thanks.

The reason, I asked, is because,.. I was reading up again, about FDF, a convicted felon, he died on death row, a few months ago,I believe…

He was convicted for carjacking, kidnapping, burglary,murder,child *advertiser censored* and it seems, his sister did live in Sumter, think a few years before the murder, of James and Pam. He must have known the area,I think..
He is infamous,because of the kidnapping, torture, abuse of Suzanne Marie Sevakis.

He was a fugitive,during the time of the murders of James and Pamela,and traveled,a lot, with a 6 yo girl,Suzanne,under different alias.


“He then went to a sister in Sumter, North or South Carolina”
Franklin Delano Floyd, Plaintiff-appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant-appellee, 427 F.2d 63 (5th Cir. 1970)

more info - about FDF (horrific read)
https://supremecourt.flcourts.gov/content/download/362934/file/03-35_init.pdf

 

[worldwatcher]

Here's something with a little about it.

When I first saw this years ago I thought that GH may have been living in Latta at the time because it refers to him as a "Latta man" not once but twice. I can see a reporter thinking this because he hadn't been identified yet but I don't know why LE wouldn't know to find him in Wadesboro, unless they went to Latta to question other people. We still don't know who else could have been in the car with Henry that night or what he said he was doing there. I personally believe LE was already in the right place (Latta) but they probably couldn't have known that yet, not without going to Wadesboro first. IMO.

The Sumter Daily Item
Jan 28 1977
Pg 1

View attachment 409678

Anyway, FDF was “somewhere” in NC in 1974:

“Floyd told the investigators how he had met Sandi, a mother of four, at a truck stop in North Carolina in 1974.”

Girl in the Picture killer's chilling confession revealed by ex-FBI agent

 

[Curious_in_NC]

“He then went to a sister in Sumter, North or South Carolina”
Franklin Delano Floyd, Plaintiff-appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant-appellee, 427 F.2d 63 (5th Cir. 1970)

This is about the most unbelievable thing I've read in a while. He robbed a bank so he could hire lawyers? Seriously?

"He insists and has insisted all the while that he is innocent of the State molestation charge and that he robbed the bank in order to get money to employ counsel to reopen that case and to establish his innocence in respect to that charge."

 

[branmuffin]

The alibi wasn't from the wife, though. It was from multiple staff members at the hospital where LH's wife was being treated.

That has been bandied around but I've never seen any written evidence that LE verified it with hospital personnel. Now it's just become part of the story without evidence to back it up.

 

[branmuffin]

Have re-read ,this on A Murder Weapon — Handsome mystery couple found murdered in South Carolina — Crime Library
"found a gun that had part of its serial number filed off in the man's car."

@fred&edna
Maybe LE could have traced the serial number part,to the burglary in Raleigh-Durham area?

Neither North Carolina nor South Carolina require the serial number of a hand gun to be registered in any kind of central information bank. The only thing required in both states is that there is a record of all permits issued for a hand gun, listing the name, date, place of residence and age. They only seem interested in the request to purchase rather than knowing another handgun has actually been bought. I find that odd. Since they've got all the other info why not add the serial number after purchase? Was it too onerous to dig through files and update them?

If LE found the weapon was part of a larger theft of weapons it seems like it was up to the individual owner to keep their own records which is how they must have found it was stolen.

Did anyone follow the Ahmaud Arbery murder? One of the convicted killers of that young man stated they'd had an unsecured, unregistered weapon stolen from their unlocked truck (dumb, dumber and dumbest) and thought possibly a black man must have done it since he ran regularly through their neighbourhood. What a great way to cast aspersions on someone without showing any evidence to support those claims. So how do we know that this weapon was actually part of a theft and not passed through numerous hands to divert attention?

GLH may have had the weapon and attempted to destroy the serial number but there was a chain of custody in a way since he stated his brother gave it to him. Yet if that was the case why did he try to obliterate the serial number? Was he trying to protect his brother or some other family member? Was he part of a theft ring? It seems without actually trying to connect GLH to the location of the murder, relying on a flimsy alibi, LE just stopped that thread, it appears. So frustrating.