Nationwide College Cheating Scandal - Actresses, Business Owners Charged, Mar 2019 - #3

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by BetteDavisEyes, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. BetteDavisEyes

    BetteDavisEyes All the boys think she's a spy...

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  2. Laughing

    Laughing Rarely Speechless

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    No link, but back when I earned a Master's in Education I read many journal articles & research reports.

    One stated that the strongest predictor of ACT/SAT score was -- wait for it --

    Zip Code

    That could be simple to factor in. If there are say 100 groups of scores by zip code, set up percentile groups.

    If you live in the most 'successful' zip codes, your score receives zero adversity points.

    If you live in the 'least successful' your score receives as many points as there are groups.

    But -- the students still have to handle college-level work.
     
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  3. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    I am not a lawyer either, but the lawsuit seems to have two grounds:

    A. "They are voiding my earned credits"
    B. "They kicked me out with out following their own rules"

    I think he has a stronger point in regards to point "A", even with a private school. In short, can a private school refuse to issue a transcript to a student for any reason? Or, is the issuance of a transcript by the school a contract that the student is entitled to if he paid tuition and earned the grades? My guess is that he has a valid point in regards to point 'A' and the issuance of a transcript is a contract.

    In regards to point 'B', I think many courts have held that private groups do not need to follow their own rules and that they are also free to put unfair "spins" on interpretations of the rules etc. In short, the rules of private groups can be fair, unfair, well thought out or arbitrary. So, I am thinking he will lose point 'B'.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  4. Breezie

    Breezie Well-Known Member

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  5. Fidobell

    Fidobell Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with accountability . If say 40 kids on that roster and only 39 shows up , who was responsible for looking why that one highly sought after place was not being used . A place cant just melt away without people noticing or asking questions .
    As a parent in the UK who has a daughter ready to graduate from a Russell group university ( uk equivalent of USC etc ) I would be livid if money and status had jeopardised her place . She worked dam hard to get to her 1st choice uni and a scheme like this has destroyed many kids dreams .
    Those ' in the know ' runs far deeper than those charged , even if they didn't know full story , suspicions must have been there somewhere along the chain of applications , admin , admissions and team admin and staff .
     
  6. Laughing

    Laughing Rarely Speechless

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  7. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    Is he one of the students that knew? If he didn’t know, I agree. If he did know, he entered fraudulently.
     
  8. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what he knew or didn't know, but the university either knew or had to know that he wasn't a tennis player. They investigated the coach, they dismissed the coach, obviously this student was not playing tennis. They allowed him to continue to study, to pay tuition, to earn credits, and now they want to nullify all of that. If they wanted to kick him out, seems like they should have done so long ago.
     
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  9. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    Well, it is indeed a “sticky situation”.
    Trying to remember the movie, anyone? :)

    ETA: Nevermind, Just remembered, “It’s a Wonderful Life”.
    Jimmy Stewart to Donna Reed. Lol
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  10. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    I suspect you are right. At the same time, there seem to be two general types of university athletes:- scholarship - non scholarship

    Scholarship athletes in any sport are carefully tracked and accounted for. Likewise, non scholarship athletes are also carefully tracked and accounted for in the big money U.S. university sports like football and basketball.

    But... these students were non scholarship and playing in non big money sports. There could well be considerably less accounting as to which athletes were, well... athletic. Then factor in that there is going to be some natural attrition from these teams such as: "Course work is hard and... I realized that I was never going to Wimbleton- so I quit the tennis team".

    Thus, a coach who kept the number of uhmm..... "irregular" recruits to a low number could probably mix in their non playing with natural attrition: "Ronnie Hi Dollar? He had the potential to be a great rower- He just never came back to the team. Something about a broken shoulder and a French ski slope".

    I am not saying that such a coach would have no scrutiny over players and that there would be no need to "gift" other University staff, but there could just be far fewer questions and thus fewer people to "gift".
     
  11. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    Answering that question with any degree of accuracy is probably going to be impossible as there is a big incentive for him to say that he did not know and refuting him would be hard.

    In the end, however, I think his attorney's argument is going to be: It does not matter whether he knew, or did not know. He paid the tuition and earned the grades. Therefore, the school has a contractual obligation to give documentation to that effect (transcript).

    If I were Georgetown, I would quickly do just that. As it has been pointed out, they were well aware of "irregularities" with the tennis team and there is a good possibility that others were taking bribes as well. Yet.... Georgetown only took strong action when the scandal went public.

    Who wants more bad publicity and a continuing lawsuit? Heck, kick him out, ban him from campus, send his transcript in the mail, and be done with the whole matter.
     
  12. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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  13. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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  14. apricotpeach

    apricotpeach Active Member

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    It's not always easy to tell what race or ethnicity someone is, particularly if someone is of mixed-race. I know a family where the mother is Asian and the father is white - one child looks Hispanic, one child looks white (with dark blond hair), and one child looks Asian. The schools can't even be bothered to check if student athletes actually play the sport they claim to play, how would they ever check if students are the ethnicity or race that they claim to be?
     
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  15. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    Well, rowing doesn't require much skill other than being able to keep a rhythm and being athletic, so in theory you would not need experience. Any athletic person would likely be able to do it provided that they were not being asked to be the coxswain (which does require experience). They would be looking for people who were strong and fit, basically.
     
  16. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    Lol...you can claim to be anything you want, it is not like these things have definitions. So much percent of this or that, there would be a firestorm if anyone tried to make that distinction. Nor do you have to wear a badge saying "minority student" when you show up. No one would notice, or care for that matter.

    My sister used to say she was African-American for example, even though she was of European heritage, because she came from Africa, lol. She was not lying, she actually was African, although people might not perceive her as such.
     
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  17. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    And people will promptly use that information to game the process.

    The problem with that approach is that it does not take individuals into account. You might come from a low income tough neighborhood, but your family could have strong values when it came to education. So how do you make that distinction? It would end up giving people unfair advantages if a University used that as a factor.

    People who are capable will excel at school, irrespective of what neighborhood they come from. I can say this with certainty, having taught before at a mission school with kids from both poor and relatively wealthy backgrounds, the kids who really "get it" succeed no mater who their parents are, provided that the parents have imbued them with positive values. On the other hand, people who come from low income neighborhoods are generally less capable, which is why they live there in the first place. It is those negative values which are passed on to their kids basically from birth that cause the problem, and it is extremely difficult to erase poor nurture once it has happened. Putting those kids into a elite school later on using a special pass does not change that.

    There is a certain level of hypocrisy involved. On one hand we say that we should not consider the prestige of the environment a particular student comes from (ie wealth) as a factor in admission, then we turn around and say the exact opposite when the environment is not prestigious.
     
  18. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    The thing is that nothing forces you to play that sport when you show up. The University hopes you do, but unless they give you a scholarship linked to participation, they can't force the student to play if they would rather focus on their studies.
     
  19. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    Nobody "lost" their place and had their "dreams destroyed". People apply to many schools, those not accepted at one institution likely got accepted somewhere else. If you were not accepted at the slightly less prestigious school, you would not have been accepted at the more prestigious one either.

    Only about a third of the students accepted in many of these elite institutions actually show up at the start of the school year.
     
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  20. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    By the same token, likely most of the students whose parents paid bribes would have likely been accepted somewhere without any bribes, maybe not into the particular school they got in. Yet parents were willing to pay huge amounts of money and break the laws, for which not only they but their children are going to pay for (because children are being kicked out of these schools). And it wasn't even necessary, because rich children with decent grades and scores (like that student kicked out of Georgetown) would surely have gotten into some school if not Georgetown. And some of those didn't even want to go to college really. A person who aspires to be a make up influencer doesn't really need to go to college.
     
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