NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[CADwrest]

Three, your take on how she would have behaved if she had killed Faith in a rage is ludicrous. She could just as easily have seen what a world of danger she was in and acted cooly and calmly in order to get herself out of said danger. She is an intelligent girl.

What I described is a pretty common reaction from people who kill impulsively, especially if they have no history of violence or prior criminal record. I think that is far more likely than her just staying cool and taking a detected, clinical view of the whole thing.

 

[CADwrest]

Another thing I think is strange (though I know this has been mentioned here before): I'm re-watching the 20/20 special now. Do you who appears on camera? Marisol Rangel. Do you know who doesn't? KR. Now, I imagine there could be a number of reasons for this, but if your close friend was murdered, why not appear on 20/20? Why is Marisol there to talk about Faith but not Karena? I find it a little odd.

I had some thoughts about that. All of the below assumes she didn't do it or know anything about it:

It might be just survivor's guilt. People feel guilty they lived and the loved one died, even if it's not rational. She might feel guilty she left Faith alone that night and she was murdered, even though there's no way she could have known that would happen.


I think there's more to it, though. People tend to feel even worse if what happened occurred because of a questionable decision on their part. I think she feels especially bad because of the reason she left, which we're all assuming was to go hook up with JM. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with what she did, but she's probably embarrassed by her actions, and knows any interview she gives will probably focus on them intently. Yes, if she'd stayed home, things might have been different, and she probably feels pretty bad about that, but she wasn't doing anything millions of college kids haven't done before.

 

[CADwrest]

Investigator on 20/20 says that KR texted JM. They must have forgotten to add it to that "Justice for Faith" timeline.

It's confusing, but it's pretty clear LE has only released part of the call logs and text messages from that night. We know all about all the calls and texts to BE, but clearly there were more. How else could KR have gotten up with JM? I also think there must have been an "I'm here" text from JM to KR at 4:27, which is how they know that time so precisely. Also, they never mentioned the call from Faith to EC which took place earlier. Makes me wonder why they released the specific ones they did.
ETA: I mean they never mentioned it before the pocket-dial voicemail became widely known.

 

[Skigirl]

Another thing I think is strange (though I know this has been mentioned here before): I'm re-watching the 20/20 special now. Do you who appears on camera? Marisol Rangel. Do you know who doesn't? KR. Now, I imagine there could be a number of reasons for this, but if your close friend was murdered, why not appear on 20/20? Why is Marisol there to talk about Faith but not Karena? I find it a little odd.

I would never, in a thousand bazillion years, appear on 20/20 to talk about the murder of a loved one. There is no upside to appearing on TV to talk about something traumatic. Faith's murder would not be solved by Karena's appearing on 20/20. Although some people will do anything for attention, some of us still value our privacy and don't care to have our grief packaged as entertainment for the peanut crunching crowd. I don't think I'm alone. Just because we are curious about Faith's friends and family does not mean they need to perform for us.

 

[J.M. Bee]

I would never, in a thousand bazillion years, appear on 20/20 to talk about the murder of a loved one. There is no upside to appearing on TV to talk about something traumatic. Faith's murder would not be solved by Karena's appearing on 20/20. Although some people will do anything for attention, some of us still value our privacy and don't care to have our grief packaged as entertainment for the peanut crunching crowd. I don't think I'm alone. Just because we are curious about Faith's friends and family does not mean they need to perform for us.

Except that every single other person close to Faith --- including Marisol, who also found Faith lying dead in bed that day, and who cries throughout the interviews --- appears in the 20/20 episode. Faith's mom, dad, brother and close friends. Everyone except for KR. So, sorry, but your take above is sanctimonious nonsense.

 

[J.M. Bee]

I would never, in a thousand bazillion years, appear on 20/20 to talk about the murder of a loved one. There is no upside to appearing on TV to talk about something traumatic. Faith's murder would not be solved by Karena's appearing on 20/20. Although some people will do anything for attention, some of us still value our privacy and don't care to have our grief packaged as entertainment for the peanut crunching crowd. I don't think I'm alone. Just because we are curious about Faith's friends and family does not mean they need to perform for us.

Also, care to admit that I was correct that a friend/boyfriend who dropped by unannounced would be in a person's text/call/email history from the prior 6-12 months and would thus be known to LE?

 

[Webthrush]

Except that every single other person close to Faith --- including Marisol, who also found Faith lying dead in bed that day, and who cries throughout the interviews --- appears in the 20/20 episode. Faith's mom, dad, brother and close friends. Everyone except for KR. So, sorry, but your take above is sanctimonious nonsense.

Actually, hardly any of the people of real interest from police documents (Eric Jones, Edwards, Beatley, etc.) were interviewed on the show. Karena & others haven't spoken to the media from early on probably because lawyers told them absolutely not to, or else simply because they've already answered all possible questions to police repeatedly (we're just not privy to her answers), and you don't keep answering the same redundant questions for 5 years to sensation-seeking press. I think (because we have so very little to go on) people are trying to read toooo much into Karena’s behavior or words, and she may know more than she's told, but the perp is more likely a male of Latino or Native American extraction who has never appeared in police documents. Whether guilty or innocent, if I were in KR's shoes I wouldn't talk to the ratings-seeking media either. I'm waaay more upset with the police telling the public so little in 5 years than in KR telling so little.

 

[Skigirl]

Also, care to admit that I was correct that a friend/boyfriend who dropped by unannounced would be in a person's text/call/email history from the prior 6-12 months and would thus be known to LE?

Merely being known to LE would not give them probable cause to compel a DNA test.

 

[Skigirl]

Except that every single other person close to Faith --- including Marisol, who also found Faith lying dead in bed that day, and who cries throughout the interviews --- appears in the 20/20 episode. Faith's mom, dad, brother and close friends. Everyone except for KR. So, sorry, but your take above is sanctimonious nonsense.

Sorry, I guess what I wrote was confusing. Agreeing to an interview by the media is very different from agreeing to an interview by law enforcement. It does not matter who speaks to entertainment news programs. What matters is who does and does not speak with law enforcement.

 

[CADwrest]

Except that every single other person close to Faith --- including Marisol, who also found Faith lying dead in bed that day, and who cries throughout the interviews --- appears in the 20/20 episode. Faith's mom, dad, brother and close friends. Everyone except for KR. So, sorry, but your take above is sanctimonious nonsense.

Actually, if you'll take a look at MY comment from a few pages back, I addressed this, too. None of Faith's other friends are treated as suspects by the media, but every recent media story has spent an extensive amount of time exploring KR's possible involvement. They treat her as one of two primary suspects, the other being ETJ. He hasn't agreed to be interviewed since the day of her murder at the crime scene tape. None of the men from the Thrill have agreed to speak to the media. But she HAS spoken to LE extensively.

If I were her, I'd probably take the exact same tact: "I told what I knew to the people who needed to know, and I'm not saying a word to these other people who are making me out to be a murderer." Also, like I said a page back, she probably is somewhat embarrassed about her other actions that night and doesn't want to explore them in front of an audience of millions. Both of those positions are totally understandable to me.

 

[CADwrest]

Also, care to admit that I was correct that a friend/boyfriend who dropped by unannounced would be in a person's text/call/email history from the prior 6-12 months and would thus be known to LE?

The example she gave in response, involving a boyfriend, yes, would have been someone in her histories. She did previously give a separate example of someone who would not have, though, that being the admirer who stopped by late one night that she let in. If I understood the situation correctly, he wasn't someone in her social circle that she'd been corresponding with previously.

I think the problem you're having with this case is that you keep discounting scenarios due to their likelihood. The issue there is that the "likely" scenarios have been investigated by LE and explored on here exhaustively. They all have a piece that is impossible to make fit. With ETJ, he has an alibi and the DNA doesn't match. With KR, there's the male DNA and the difficulties with incorporating that. The DNA actually is a problem for ANY male in her social circle or that she interacted with that night.

That leads us to have to consider "low probabilities". A random prowler. A distant admirer/stalker. A hired killer. A Craiglist rape ad. A royal screw up in the lab. Considering that what's likely to have happened didn't actually happen, we can't just say a scenario had no chance of happening just because it had a small chance of happening.

 

[raiders444]

Sitting at home bored, I decided to start reading this thread from Page 1, in hopes of finding new info. Along the way I saw this:

http://www.wral.com/authorities-searched-two-apartments-car-after-unc-student-s-death/13491889/

It contains some info about why they don't want to reveal details about the case. Excerpts like this: [FONT=&quot]"It’s not that it might hinder this investigation. It will hinder this investigation," Durham County Assistant District Attorney Charlene Franks said Wednesday.

And this: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The 911 call, for example, includes a description of the crime scene and Hedgepeth's body, Franks said. Few people know such details, which might help police identify her killer, she said. (this has obviously since been released and has yielded no new leads that we know of)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I don't know, call me crazy but there are things about this case that make me think something is being covered up, or maybe a suspect is being protected? Does anyone think maybe the #1 suspect could be the son of someone prominent? UNC is a top school and I'm sure many wealthy and prominent families send their kids there. Sorry to go all "conspiracy theory" here, but after 5 years with no arrests, why is LE still being so tight with info? If they would just release everything, maybe they'd get an arrest!
[/FONT]

 

[Doghairrules]

Sitting at home bored, I decided to start reading this thread from Page 1, in hopes of finding new info. Along the way I saw this:

http://www.wral.com/authorities-searched-two-apartments-car-after-unc-student-s-death/13491889/

It contains some info about why they don't want to reveal details about the case. Excerpts like this: [FONT=&quot]"It’s not that it might hinder this investigation. It will hinder this investigation," Durham County Assistant District Attorney Charlene Franks said Wednesday.

And this: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The 911 call, for example, includes a description of the crime scene and Hedgepeth's body, Franks said. Few people know such details, which might help police identify her killer, she said. (this has obviously since been released and has yielded no new leads that we know of)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I don't know, call me crazy but there are things about this case that make me think something is being covered up, or maybe a suspect is being protected? Does anyone think maybe the #1 suspect could be the son of someone prominent? UNC is a top school and I'm sure many wealthy and prominent families send their kids there. Sorry to go all "conspiracy theory" here, but after 5 years with no arrests, why is LE still being so tight with info? If they would just release everything, maybe they'd get an arrest!
[/FONT]

I completely agree with you. No matter their reasoning, it’s clear that being this tight lipped has not allowed them to solve this case. It’s time to try something new.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[J.M. Bee]

The example she gave in response, involving a boyfriend, yes, would have been someone in her histories. She did previously give a separate example of someone who would not have, though, that being the admirer who stopped by late one night that she let in. If I understood the situation correctly, he wasn't someone in her social circle that she'd been corresponding with previously.

I think the problem you're having with this case is that you keep discounting scenarios due to their likelihood. The issue there is that the "likely" scenarios have been investigated by LE and explored on here exhaustively. They all have a piece that is impossible to make fit. With ETJ, he has an alibi and the DNA doesn't match. With KR, there's the male DNA and the difficulties with incorporating that. The DNA actually is a problem for ANY male in her social circle or that she interacted with that night.

That leads us to have to consider "low probabilities". A random prowler. A distant admirer/stalker. A hired killer. A Craiglist rape ad. A royal screw up in the lab. Considering that what's likely to have happened didn't actually happen, we can't just say a scenario had no chance of happening just because it had a small chance of happening.

Not exactly. I do think every idea proposed here should be assessed for plausibility, and I do think some people put forward scenarios that are not all that plausible when scrutinized, but I agree that the explanation in this case may involve something rare and improbable. You mention, for example, an admirer/stalker. I have discussed the possibility of a peeper/stalker several times here recently; indeed I've suggested that this may be the best male-culprit theory given that LE has swabbed pretty much all of the males in her social circle and given the improbability of some of the other theories.

However, all proposed explanations are not equally plausible. And some are ridiculous. You mention, for example, the possibility that it was a "hired killer". A hired killer, for a 20-year-old undergrad with no connections to criminal activity or large sums of money or anything else that would prompt someone to want her dead? A hired killer who uses a rum bottle from the apartment as a murder weapon? No, that's simply not plausible.

Bottom line is that while I agree that we must consider a wide range of possible explanations, any proposed explanation should be scrutinized for plausibility.

 

[J.M. Bee]

Good new blog post on this case from writer / podcaster John Taylor:

https://www.crimetraveller.org/2017/09/death-of-faith-hedgepeth-getting-away-with-murder/

 

[CADwrest]

<snipped>

However, all proposed explanations are not equally plausible. And some are ridiculous. You mention, for example, the possibility that it was a "hired killer". A hired killer, for a 20-year-old undergrad with no connections to criminal activity or large sums of money or anything else that would prompt someone to want her dead? A hired killer who uses a rum bottle from the apartment as a murder weapon? No, that's simply not plausible.

Bottom line is that while I agree that we must consider a wide range of possible explanations, any proposed explanation should be scrutinized for plausibility.

I agree that some proposed theories are more plausible than others. I think we just draw that line differently. For instance, you've said that there's just no way Faith would open the door at 4:30 AM for someone she just kind of knows. When I first came to the thread, I would have agreed, but some of the women here have said they did that at that age. So I don't think that idea can be taken completely off the table.

Yes, hired killer is probably not what happened. To clarify, though, I wasn't talking about a mob boss sicing a professional hit man on her. I was thinking more someone who hated her and wanted her dead paying a couple hundred to someone who maybe already had a record (or was possibly undocumented) and needed some cash and didn't have qualms about murder. You mentioned before you watch Forensic Files- there have been a couple of episodes in there that involved schemes like that. Likely? No. Completely implausible? I don't know if I'd go that far.

 

[CADwrest]

Good new blog post on this case from writer / podcaster John Taylor:

https://www.crimetraveller.org/2017/09/death-of-faith-hedgepeth-getting-away-with-murder/

Gaspo said in his July podcast that there was a media outlet preparing a major story about the case; it's been a while since I listened to it but I think he said it "would attract a younger crowd" or something like that.

I hope that's still coming and he wasn't just talking about one of the little print stories we've seen in the last month.

 

[CADwrest]

So, here's a question: Does anyone foresee this case getting solved without finding this Hispanic male who left the DNA? It seems to me that, whether he ties in with any other named POI or not, he has to be found and his connection to Faith established. Even if one's personal theory of the case just has him as a pawn of one of the other POIs, I don't think they could possibly be charged with anything unless he's found and shown to be an associate of them in some way.

Anyone disagree?

 

[Webthrush]

So, here's a question: Does anyone foresee this case getting solved without finding this Hispanic male who left the DNA? It seems to me that, whether he ties in with any other named POI or not, he has to be found and his connection to Faith established. Even if one's personal theory of the case just has him as a pawn of one of the other POIs, I don't think they could possibly be charged with anything unless he's found and shown to be an associate of them in some way.

Anyone disagree?

Totally agree, the male leaving the DNA must be found, and I agree with police he is the perpetrator, or at least one of them; but even if by some incredible circumstance he is not the guilty party he must be found and absolved to prove anyone else is.

 

[Boodles]

Sitting at home bored, I decided to start reading this thread from Page 1, in hopes of finding new info. Along the way I saw this:

http://www.wral.com/authorities-searched-two-apartments-car-after-unc-student-s-death/13491889/

It contains some info about why they don't want to reveal details about the case. Excerpts like this: [FONT=&amp]"It&#8217;s not that it might hinder this investigation. It will hinder this investigation," Durham County Assistant District Attorney Charlene Franks said Wednesday.

And this: [/FONT][FONT=&amp]The 911 call, for example, includes a description of the crime scene and Hedgepeth's body, Franks said. Few people know such details, which might help police identify her killer, she said. (this has obviously since been released and has yielded no new leads that we know of)

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]I don't know, call me crazy but there are things about this case that make me think something is being covered up, or maybe a suspect is being protected? Does anyone think maybe the #1 suspect could be the son of someone prominent? UNC is a top school and I'm sure many wealthy and prominent families send their kids there. Sorry to go all "conspiracy theory" here, but after 5 years with no arrests, why is LE still being so tight with info? If they would just release everything, maybe they'd get an arrest!
[/FONT]

bbm: definitely not. I don&#8217;t think anyone is being protected. I think they just cannot make an arrest, due to either lack of evidence or lack of DA agreeing (which is essentially lack of evidence).

LE never wants to talk about what they know. It screws up their ability to conduct an investigation. A key part of investigating is getting people to talk, and in talking, reveal things directly and inadvertently, contradict themselves, screw up their own timelines and alibis, etc. To me, it, along with forensics, it&#8217;s the most fascinating part of investigations. I totally understand why LE has been quiet.