Details said:The defense will present a series of photos with a 27 minute break right where the victim says she was raped as highly exculpatory too. They'll present "It doesn't fit, you must aquit" as highly exculpatory - but the question is - is it really?
Summerskye1 said:SNIP
scientifically inaccurate in the real world.
According to those who have seen them (NOT her defense attorney) - there are some marks on her legs - knees and feet, before the 27 minute gap; but after it, there are new marks that were not there before. Interesting, huh? The supposedly exculpatory photos may in fact be exhibit A for the prosecution!Wudge said:As best I know, the photos have not been made available to the public. As such, assessing their evidentiary value is just a guessing game. However, I would be more interested in the bruising that has been reported, which supposedly was visible in the photos before the cited 27 minute gap.
I would also be interested in knowing when this woman last had sex and with whom.
Wudge said:(snicker)
Details said:According to those who have seen them (NOT her defense attorney) - there are some marks on her legs - knees and feet, before the 27 minute gap; but after it, there are new marks that were not there before. Interesting, huh? The supposedly exculpatory photos may in fact be exhibit A for the prosecution!
As to the rest - why? A victim's sex life is none of our concern! It's just a defense trick to make the penalty for reporting rape nearly as humiliating as the rape itself!
I thought that she was wearing very high heels and that she fell outside of the house. Wasn't there a photo of her falling, on the ground? This could account for new marks.Details said:...there are new marks that were not there before. Interesting, huh? ...
That ruling was due to the presence of additional semen not belonging to Kobe that was found on her underwear.Wudge said:Every case will have evidentiary issues decided on their own merit.
In the fairly recent rape case against Kobe Bryant, my recollection has a Judge ruling that the accuser's recent sex acts could be used by the defense.
Using that case as a reference, I presumed Kobe to be innocent just as I presume these young men to be innocent. Notwithstanding that I faithfully pledge allegiance to our presumption of innocence standard, in my opinion, the weight of evidence against Kobe was far, far more convincing than the defense appears to face in this case.
Masterj said:That ruling was due to the presence of additional semen not belonging to Kobe that was found on her underwear.
Masissy said:This case is a really difficult one. If indeed this woman was raped (and I am leaning toward that) I applaud her for coming forth. There is so much doubt that she is telling the truth and I think it is because of her profession. Many may say she was asking for it by stripping, and to me that is shallow thinking. No one ask to be raped. I can understand why so many never come forth when they are raped for cases such as this. Surely someone from this party saw something and hopefully they can have enough morals and values to confess if there was a rape.
Since you were unwilling to even attempt to find factual support for your repeated assertions that the DNA tests were "fundamentally exonerating," I have been doing some searching around on your behalf. Here's one thing I found:Wudge said:If the woman was gang raped, then more than one young man knows about it, and the prosecutor will assuredly offer each young man she identifies a (relatively) great deal to give up the other rapists.
As for doubt, the first wave of laboratory tests are fundamentally exonerating, and if any young man she identifies can prove they were not there at the time of the alleged rape, then her credibility goes down the drain.
With the likely jury composite that Durham would provide to the State, her profession would likely be set aside by the majority of those seated, which would be proper. No is always no, and rape is always rape.
[size=+1]Duke DNA tests inconclusive, not an acquittal[/size]
Long-awaited DNA testing in the case of an alleged rape of an exotic dancer at a party by Duke University lacrosse players came back inconclusive Tuesday.
But don't for a minute believe the defense attorneys' hype that the lack of this particular type of evidence equals innocence on the part of their clients.
http://www.hendersondispatch.com/articles/2006/04/12/news/opinion/opin01.txtIt has been reported that a rape kit was performed on the alleged victim. A specially trained nurse found that the woman had suffered vaginal and anal trauma consistent with being raped. But frequently DNA is hard to find.
The truth is if you speak to crime lab directors, they will tell you that in only a relatively small number of cases is there any DNA evidence, said Peter Neufeld, co-founder of the Innocence Project.
I heard on Catherine Crier that the alleged victim arrived later than the appointed time. I wonder where she was and why she was late...CordovaMom said:Does anyone have a time line of events in this case? What time did the dancers arrive, what time did they leave? supposedly there are time stamped photos of the party and supposedly 20 some odd minutes of time when no photos were taken. If this information is posted somewhere, can someone lead me to the link. Thanks!!
here are timelines from a local TV station, the news and observer has one that shows what defense says, prosecution says and the disagreements, but I can not copy a link to that...sorry..these are a timeline, and the picture timelineCordovaMom said:Does anyone have a time line of events in this case? What time did the dancers arrive, what time did they leave? supposedly there are time stamped photos of the party and supposedly 20 some odd minutes of time when no photos were taken. If this information is posted somewhere, can someone lead me to the link. Thanks!!
Thanks for the timeline and photo links.......the dancer/accuser obviously wasn't at the party long enough to get drunk at the party. In my opinion either she had been drinking before arriving at the party or she was drugged at the party. I'm leaning toward believing the dancer/accuser. Reportedly one of the accused has ATM and phone records showing he couldn't have committed the rape. ABC did a reenactment which I believed showed he had to have left no later than 12:19 to get to the ATM and make the phone calls he did before returning to his dorm at the time recorded by his access card, 12:46. If the above linked time line is accurate, and if the reenactment by ABC is accurate, in my opinion, he still could have taken part in the rape before leaving the residence.caffeinatd said:here are timelines from a local TV station, the news and observer has one that shows what defense says, prosecution says and the disagreements, but I can not copy a link to that...sorry..these are a timeline, and the picture timeline
http://www.wral.com/news/8751837/detail.html
http://www.wral.com/news/8764090/detail.html
http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-723005.htmlRosen, the UNC law professor, said the problem anyone from the outside faces in weighing the case is that only part of the evidence available to the two sides is in the public domain, Rosen said.
Even given the DNA results, "There are a number of different findings that can be there," Rosen said. "One is that they found semen that didn't belong to one of the players. Or they could have found that there was no semen there -- in which case, it would depend on what [the alleged victim] said, whether the men were wearing condoms or not."
Rosen -- whose efforts on behalf of Ronald Junior Cotton in 1995 helped produce the state's first DNA-based exoneration of a man wrongfully convicted of rape -- added that DNA testing isn't always the key to solving criminal cases, even rape cases.
Sampling and testing technology has improved tremendously, even to the point where a DNA specimen can be drawn from a fingerprint, Rosen said. But there are still times when authorities can't gather enough of a sample to allow scientists to do their work.
"I don't know we're at the point yet when there will always be something left that can be tested," he said.
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/427689.htmlAccording to a U.S. Department of Justice study, DNA evidence from an attacker is successfully recovered in less than a quarter of sexual assault cases. A spokesman for Duke Hospital, where the accuser was treated March 14, would not discuss the specific evidence provided to Durham police.
Typically, when a woman reports that she has been sexually assaulted, hospital workers collect what is known as a "rape kit" -- samples of semen, blood, hair and pubic hair. If the attacker wears a condom, doesn't ejaculate or penetrates the victim with a foreign object, semen or other sources of DNA are unlikely to be collected.
Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong has said he thinks that an assault occurred and that any assailants might have used condoms. Joseph B. Cheshire V, a Raleigh lawyer who represents one of the four team captains, said if that were true, forensic tests would have shown evidence of latex or spermicide. A spokeswoman for the State Bureau of Investigation declined to discuss what tests might have been performed on the vaginal and anal swabs collected from the accuser at the hospital.
