NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #10

[impatientredhead]

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/14/19/neighbors-wonder-if-zahra-kept-attic-ar-458767/

blown in insulation and a small girl exposed to it that had lung cancer.................
I am soooo furious, if this is true!!!

I don't think she was up there.
Getting in and out would be very difficult.
Someone living up there and using the bathroom up there would leave tons of evidence. The insulation compresses easily.

They are drug users and by report dealers, it was more likely where they were stashing drugs imo

 

[Kat]

They have ruled out the dog hits on the wood chipper more or less.

Earlier this week, a K-9 unit alerted police to a wood chipper on the property. A K-9 unit dog handler told Channel 9 that the hit was not on the wood chipper itself but the engine, and the blood could have come from a cut on a worker’s hand.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/25389806/detail.html

K9 crews indicated earlier in the week that traces of human remains were found on wood processing equipment in an area where Baker's father once worked, but detectives with the Burke County Sheriff's Office said that is no longer a solid lead.

http://charlotte.news14.com/content...ome-up-empty-so-far-as-zahra-search-continues

The info about the woodchipper gives me a small comfort. Very tiny. But still does. Thanks for the links!

 

[passionflower]

I agree. I think they are trying to figure out why they are getting so many hits, but they aren't coming up with any real evidence that she was there. It doesn't make sense esp. at the work site. There has to be a main site for evidence at least I would think.

or could these nuts moved her around?
pieces of her around, her clothes?
fluid drops? her hair?
did they try several ways to get rid of dear Zahra's body???

throwing the dogs off in several directions?????

 

[kalekona]

That was my question too WSF glad you asked it.

I did a quick search of the statutes in NC but they don't pertain to what powers DDS (CPS? here) has to investigate alleged abuse.

We have another case here.

Patrick Alford
NY NY - Patrick Alford, 7-year-old "runaway", Brooklyn, 22 Jan 2010 - #1 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Thread 1 of 2 so far.

He was removed from his Mother's home when she contacted CPS to ask for help because she was struggling with addiction and Patrick was removed from her home for various other problems.

He is now missing. He disappeared from his foster Mother's home.

His Mother just filed a federal law suit. I do expect to see more suits to come too. JMHO.

We can all be critical of CPS but the people working there are all just human and are all very overwhelmed. I thought WA would have worked out all the kinks with the system in 1986 after Eli Creekmore and they did change procedures but kids still fall through the cracks I am afraid.
We want CPS to have the power to save every child but absolute power corrupts absolutely and I do not want any agency to have un-restricked power.

(you know how your brain sometimes hears or sees things wrong? I'm from Colorado when I saw the name Patrick Alford my mind read it Alford Packer-google it, the story always gave me nightmares, but so did the Donner Party)

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I can't see one. Where do you think it is located within the picture? TIA

It's on the floor of the attic, right above the "trailer." Actually, the "trailer" almost hides a portion of the bowl of the spoon. It's silver, with the handle pointing towards the top of the picture almost touching the insulation.

With these eyes I could just be seeing things that aren't there. :blushing:

 

[Kat]

I don't think she was up there.
Getting in and out would be very difficult.
Someone living up there and using the bathroom up there would leave tons of evidence. The insulation compresses easily.

They are drug users and by report dealers, it was more likely where they were stashing drugs imo

I agree.

Also, that guy up there moving around would contaminate any evidence of such a thing if LE hasn't already investigated.

I'm going with your theory of drugs/stashes/using/dealing or the possibility that it was used to try to access other apts. to steal stuff. (not talking about the Bakers, could have been that way before).

JMHO.

 

[voominvava]

I don't think she was up there.
Getting in and out would be very difficult.
Someone living up there and using the bathroom up there would leave tons of evidence. The insulation compresses easily.

They are drug users and by report dealers, it was more likely where they were stashing drugs imo

ita, they would also have heard her crying or some other types of noises besides just 'scuffling' like a squirrel. imo

 

[MeinNC]

I had basically decided that poor Zahra was gone and nothing convinced me of anything else until I saw AY's post on FB the same night she was supposedly last seen. I can't get my mind around it being a coincidence. Why go to Zahra's nine month old picture on that particular night at that particular time? It changed everything in my thinking. Not sure what to make of it, but definitely makes me think it's "possible" she's out there somewhere. It's a comforting thought.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

I didn't hear the discussion, but Factitious Disorder is where you fake an illness or cause symptoms in yourself to get attention. If you do it to yourself it's Munchausen Syndrome, if you do it to your kid it's Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.

There's a bit of fuzziness between these terms, but generally "Munchausen" (either self of proxy) is used in situations that involve generating real physical symptoms, or at least using faked symptoms in order to undergo treatments that generate real physical effects (scars, organ removals, etc). Factitious disorder usually just involves faking symptoms (by making claims of pain, dizziness, blackouts, or of purely psychological symptoms such as panic attacks or hearing voices).

In other words, someone who just invents symptoms to get attention/money/time off work/prescription drugs, etc, and runs around to doctors a lot, having harmless tests and getting prescriptions, would usually be described as having a "factitious disorder", but not Munchausen syndrome. On the other hand, if they're doing real physical harm (poisoning themselves, deliberately generating real infections, etc) or faking symptoms and then going through with surgeries based on the faked symptoms, that would normally be called Munchausen syndrome.

If you're the proxy, you're definitely a lot better off if the "sufferer" has factitious disorder than Munchausen syndrome. Some child victims of Munchausen by proxy have ended up missing organs, covered in scars, and with permanent damage from raging infections. Very different from EB's grown daughters, who apparently just have memories of their mother making them sit in wheelchairs and telling people they had leukemia or something.

 

[tehcloser]

I just don't think a child in the attic would sound like a squirrel.........

 

[passionflower]

dear locals, what is your weather like?
Holding up for searchers???

 

[Kat]

It's on the floor of the attic, right above the "trailer." Actually, the "trailer" almost hides a portion of the bowl of the spoon. It's silver, with the handle pointing towards the top of the picture almost touching the insulation.

With these eyes I could just be seeing things that aren't there. :blushing:

Ahh okay. I looked at with bifocals and without and all I see is insulation and various pieces of fluff, torn paper debris possibly.

I just don't see spoon, I'm sorry. But looking at the perspective within that photo that would be a big ol' ladle not a spoon if it was LOL JMHO


ETA: Yes I had my nose almost pressed to the moniter too! my eyes are old

 

[big4dropout]

I just don't think a child in the attic would sound like a squirrel.........

Exactly. You know what might sound like a squirrel? Shoving a box of drugs up there.

EB's lies have made me somewhat jaded and I'm sort of questioning everything anyone says. I know the neighbors are just trying to help, but I think some of the things being said are kind of a stretch. JMHO. I have doubts about this chick who supposedly saw her alive 14 days ago. I'm going to be so mad if she's full of it and it impedes the investigation further.

 

[darlin gal]

That was my question too WSF glad you asked it.

I did a quick search of the statutes in NC but they don't pertain to what powers DDS (CPS? here) has to investigate alleged abuse.

We have another case here.

Patrick Alford
NY NY - Patrick Alford, 7-year-old "runaway", Brooklyn, 22 Jan 2010 - #1 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Thread 1 of 2 so far.

He was removed from his Mother's home when she contacted CPS to ask for help because she was struggling with addiction and Patrick was removed from her home for various other problems.

He is now missing. He disappeared from his foster Mother's home.

His Mother just filed a federal law suit. I do expect to see more suits to come too. JMHO.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemw.../index.cfm?event=stateStatutes.showSearchForm

 

[big4dropout]

dear locals, what is your weather like?
Holding up for searchers???

Nice, no chance of rain today or tomorrow, but quite windy.

 

[Melanie]

I am an Australian who has a green card and is living in America. Yay!

Just marrying a US citizen does not grant him citizenship - it takes ages. Even for me, as a green card holder marrying a US citizen does not fast track my citizenship application any quicker. The process is so long and you *really* have to be on the ball with paperwork etc - which surprises me considering how these people actually are. He would've had to enter the USA and would have been unable to work for probably about 6-12 months. She would've had to support him fully. Obviously, I am assuming here, this is where the drug dealing etc would have come into play. It is interesting that they got married in Australia - I am wondering how she entered Australia and stayed such a substantial time etc.

They would have been CRAZY to leave Australia if Zahra was still sick - why would you leave somewhere where you don't need health insurance and have a great hospital system for a country with a no-hoper wife who I doubt has had a job with insurance coveragel? I say as soon as Zahra was given the all clear, that is why they left.

Your post gave me flashbacks - LOL. It took hubby 11 months to get his residence card, so he was home with the little one during that time. From all my research (back then) you have to have a US marriage certificate at the time of application. I can't imagine the US would ever accept an international certificate.

I, too, wonder why bio-dad left AUS when zahra was so ill. The US doesn't exactly offer free health insurance. It would have been so much wiser is SM just stayed in AUS after they got married. If so, I betcha Zahra would still be alive today -- since she had family there who would have truly looked after her.

MOO

Mel

 

[Fyrecat]

BBM Does DSS have the right to go up to joe blow and say heres a cup we want a drug test without a court order?
Sorry if this is a stupid question but I honestly dont know the answer.

Heck I just figured out what BBM means without going to the abriviation page.

Here in NY, from what I know, and I might be wrong:

there has to be cause. If DSS was called because a child was hit, punched, etc, if there was neglect....neighbors reporting that a child is left alone in a home, and the child was under a certain age, if there was a criminal drug case on one or both parents in the home, then, a parent could be asked to come into the DSS office and asked to provide a 'sample'. The parent has the right to refuse.

I am not sure court wise how it works though, I believe that there has to be 'burden of proof' before children are removed, and that the court ok's this ruling.

 

[sarx]

I think this is one of those cases that LE is playing very close to the vest and we really need to be careful on taking everything at face value. This is one of those cases that things may not be as they seem.

There are a lot of dogs working this case. A lot of dogs that I know to be VERY good dogs. This is one of those cases where media is not helping (what am I saying, one of those cases, when do they ever help?). Try not to jump to conclusions with what the media is spewing. I know that's all there is to go off right now, but in due time it'll all come out.

Just because there's a helicopter flying over snapping shots and reporting certain things, doesn't necessarily reflect what is going on down on the ground.

 

[Mia]

This is certainly one of those cases that 'got' to me. I've been thinking of Zahra constantly, trying to imagine dealing with cancer and chemotherapy, not to mention the loss of a leg, at such a young age, and remaining strong and hopeful throughout. And i truly believe she was -- that short video which shows her being fitted for her new hearing device -- I see hope and intelligence and strength in Zahra's eyes. Just from looking at her photos and seeing the short videos of her, I can tell this was one extraordinary little girl. Sadly, i don't believe she is with us any longer, and the thought of someone taking her life, most likely in a painful, horrible way, after she had the strength to survive cancer and its related treatments, makes my blood boil. How dare she?

Which brings me to the stepmother. I had to admit I only learned about this case a couple of days ago, and am still trying to catch up and am only halfway through the second thread, so I apologize if anything I say has already been said or is irrelevant. The stepmonster is a selfish, lying, ugly sociopath. She was hideous when she was fat, and she is hideous now, on the inside and out. I believe she was probably jealous of Zahra. Zahra was strong, young, charming, intelligent, beautiful on the inside and out - all qualities the stepmonster never had or could have, and she knew it. She was probably jealous of the praise Zahra received and the strength she displayed in overcoming her illness and disabilities, and it made her angry. That could be why she lied on her MySpace and told the world she herself had struggled through multiple bouts of brain cancer -- probably in the hope that she, too, would be recognized, as Zahra had, for surviving and remaining strong. What a fraud. In addition, what is up with Zahra's father? Is he ignorant, in denial, or <edit>? Does anyone know if he had a MySpace? Wouldn't he have seen his wife's MS at some point and been like, 'Uh, honey, you don't have brain cancer. WTH is going on?' If Zahra's teachers and neighbors noticed bruises on her face and saw abuse by the <edit>, why didn't he see it? Like I said, i don't know if he was in denial, didn't care, or was just <edit>, but I hold him responsible for not being a father to his precious, beautiful daughter. I hold him responsible for moving Zahra all the way around the world, away from the friend and school and doctors she knew, away from free medical care, just so he could get laid or whatever it is he wanted in America or from the <edit>.

And on the issue of responsibility, yes, it does sound like DSS dropped the ball once again. I'm sure there are some dedicated social workers out there, who entered the field because they truly care about children and want to help them, but i've read about so, so, so many cases of children dying or being injured after they should have been removed from dangerous home environments by DSS, that i'm beginning to think that most of these people are lazy or just don't give a sh%&. Two other recent cases come to mind - that of Chandler Grafner out of Colorado (a quick Google search under his name will bring you to a website dedicated in his honor) and more so, that of Danieal Kelly out of Philadelphia. If you go to this site:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5802508/Danieal-Kelly-Grand-Jury-Report
you can read the grand jury report (WARNING: it is very long and also VERY graphic and difficult to read for that reason); tell me if that story doesn't make you jump out of your skin in anger. In Danieal's case, several DSS social workers and their supervisors were prosecuted, believe it or not, and if I remember correctly received long prison sentences.

sorry for the long post. I am just so angry. So many people - friends, teachers, neighbors, family - saw Zahra was being abused and still she remained living in that dangerous environment. Didn't one family member go so far as to say, "I knew this would happen" ?? or something along those lines? Quite a statement. I just can't imagine knowing and seeing a child being abused and not risking life or limb to save him or her. I would call the cops - consistently until they did something. if all else failed I'd take the child myself and hide them! Who cares about the consequences? Save the child's life now, worry about the rest later. I wish these people had seen the light sooner and done something to save beautiful Zahra. Beautiful, strong, soulful Zahra. She will not be forgotten, and her strength has touched many hearts, certainly mine.

 

[Soul125]

or could these nuts moved her around?
pieces of her around, her clothes?
fluid drops? her hair?
did they try several ways to get rid of dear Zahra's body???

throwing the dogs off in several directions?????

I think they probably did move her around to dispose of her. But it looks like LE has ruled out the chipper with a great deal of certainty. It makes me question whether they used any other equipment to dispose of the body since he would likely use work equipment at his disposal. Maybe she was brought to the work site deceased, but they decided that it was a bad idea and that it would be too messy.