Seeker
Former Member
Unfortunately the Bonita papers aren't exactly 100% accurate.
If memory serves John had a dark blue terry cloth robe though. There is the possibility that fibers were comingled in the dryer and adhered to the blanket that she was wrapped in and then shedded onto her. Or her long johns could already have had some fibers attached to them that weren't noticed.
Cops often try to trip suspects up by saying "we believe" or "what would you say if I told you we found XX and it appears to have come from..."
They never once in any of the interviews say they know positively that any of the fibers belonged to a certain article of clothing.
10 Q. You provided us with two shirts.
11 One of them had a collar, it's a wool shirt
12 made in Israel. The other one did not have
13 a collar. Do you have a belief as to which
14 one was the actual shirt that you were
15 wearing on Christmas '96?
16 A. I don't remember, I guess. And
17 if I -- well, I think the issue, if I
18 recall was I couldn't remember which one, so
19 I think we sent you both. But I mean, I'd
20 have to look at pictures, I guess, to
21 compare. I don't remember that far back.
22 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I take it, and
23 correct me if I am wrong, please, that the
24 fact that you sent two shirts as opposed to
25 one indicated you were not certain which of
0030
1 the two you were wearing?
2 A. Well, I think that's what we did,
3 but I don't, I mean, I don't remember
4 exactly the logic. I know that we were
5 asked about shoes, and the picture didn't
6 even show shoes, so I couldn't remember what
7 shoes we had on. So was it to send all my
8 shoes or one hundred percent sure.
9 Q. Those items of evidence, did you
10 continue, after the clothing was moved down
11 to Atlanta, after you moved to Atlanta, did
12 you continue to wear them? Were they
13 laundered? Were they -- one of them was
14 wool. I assume that would be dry cleaned.
15 Do you have any recollection in that regard?
16 A. No, I don't.
further down we have an interesting exchange (IMO) Wood clearly is aware of the "trip" tactic and demands actual proof of the fiber evidence. Unfortunately we don't get to see any of it...
19 If you are going to make
20 statements that contain some form of innuendo
21 that an article of clothing might possibly be
22 connected to some portion of the crime scene
23 or this man's daughter's body, I think you
24 have an obligation, not only to him but to
25 whoever reads that report and this
0057
1 transcript, to be candid and give full
2 disclosure, show the people what the results
3 are, show the people what you also had in
4 terms of fiber evidence.
5 We are told there are hundreds of
6 fibers, for example, on the duct tape. And
7 I think you have a fundamental right,
8 fundamental fairness requires that you
9 disclose that information and not single out
10 some hypothetical innuendo that unfairly casts
11 perhaps in someone's mind that reads this
12 some finger of blame at John or Patsy
13 Ramsey. I think it is totally inappropriate
14 for you to do so, but if you want to go
15 ahead and make a record for whatever reason,
16 I certainly am not here to stop you. You
17 have the right.
18 MR. LEVIN: Thank you, Mr. Wood.
19 I appreciate the opportunity.
20 MR. WOOD: Thank you.
21 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, it is
22 our belief based on forensic evidence that
23 there are hairs that are associated, that the
24 source is the collared black shirt that you
25 sent us that are found in your daughter's
0058
1 underpants, and I wondered if you --
2 A. . I don't believe that.
3 I don't buy it. If you are trying to
4 disgrace my relationship with my daughter --
5 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I am not trying to
6 disgrace --
7 A. Well, I don't believe it. I
8 think you are. That's disgusting.
9 MR. WOOD: I think you --
10 MR. LEVIN: I am not.
11 MR. WOOD: Yes, you are.
12 MR. LEVIN: And the follow-up
13 question would be --
14 MR. WOOD: Posing the question in
15 light of what I said to you yesterday is
16 nothing more than an attempt to make a
17 record that unfairly, unjustly, and in a
18 disgusting fashion points what you might
19 consider to be some finger of blame at this
20 man regarding his daughter, and you ought to
21 be ashamed of yourself for doing it, Bruce.
22 You knew we weren't going to
23 answer the question. Why don't you just
24 give us the report, and we'll put it out
25 there for someone to look at and tell us
0059
1 what it says and see how fair and accurate
2 you have been.
3 I know why you said what you said
4 yesterday about Patsy and the fibers and John
5 and the fibers. And you know why you did
6 it, Bruce. Because you want this somehow to
7 get out and then people will read that and
8 be prejudiced even further against this
9 family.
10 I just don't know why you want to
11 do it, but I can't stop you.
12 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood, if you
13 would like to, I would challenge you to find
14 any article anywhere that I have been quoted
15 as giving an opinion or any statement to the
16 press concerning this case.
17 MR. WOOD: You don't have to be
18 quoted. You don't have to be quoted.
19 MR. LEVIN: Or any piece of
20 evidence that I have released.
21 MR. WOOD: You don't have to be
22 quoted. You do not have to be quoted.
23 MR. LEVIN: This is a murder
24 investigation, and I am trying to get an
25 explanation, which can be an innocent
0060
1 explanation.
2 MR. WOOD: It could be, but you
3 pose your question as if it's not not.
4 That's what's unfair. Why don't you let us
5 see the report so we can know exactly what's
6 going on, exactly what other fibers were
7 found in that area so that you don't
8 unfairly cast an aspersion through innuendo
9 or suggestion toward this man and his
10 daughter.
11 It seems to me that you should
12 look over and go look, Mr. Wood, we want
13 your client's help, we will give you the
14 test results if it will help get this
15 answered, if it is so important, we'll tell
16 you whether there was another fiber or fibers
17 found that we doen't know where they came
18 from and maybe he can help you with that
19 information, but that is not what you are
20 doing. You are focusing on what you believe
21 is one specific area. And you are doing it
22 in a way that I think is just unfair.
23 Let me just answer your question
24 about you being quoted. Look, John and
25 Patsy Ramsey sat around for three years and
0061
1 did not go public with this case, even
2 though your people were talking to tabloids
3 and writing books and appearing on
4 television. Linda Arndt, Steve Thomas, Alex
5 Hunter.
6 You want to go through the litany
7 of how your people have publicly prosecuted
8 and persecuted this family, and now they
9 decided enough is enough and they tried to
10 go out with me, yes, sir, and them and try
11 to refute some of the absolute lies that
12 have been told about them. Do you have a
13 problem with that?
14 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood.
15 MR. WOOD: Because your people
16 have been saying it. I am not calling your
17 name. I don't know who it is linked to.
18 I don't know who gave the ransom note to
19 Vanity Fair. I'm not suggesting it is you.
20 But don't sit here and tell me that because
21 Bruce Levin hasn't been quoted that this
22 investigation from the Boulder Police
23 Department and the district attorney's office
24 is a lily white when it comes to talking
25 about this case in the media because that is
0062
1 false, and you know it.
2 MR. LEVIN: Now, Mr. Wood, if I
3 can just respond very briefly, and I want
4 Mr. Ramsey to listen to this because it's
5 important, the suggestion is that I am
6 suggesting that the only explanation for that
7 question is sinister. I am a part of a
8 team conducting an investigation into your
9 daughter's death, and an innocent explanation
10 that would help us further that investigation
11 is very welcome. I am not looking for a
12 sinister answer or innocent answer.
13 MR. WOOD: If you are looking for
14 that, then give us the test result and let
15 us know what it says.
16 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood, the fact
17 of --
18 MR. WOOD: No, Bruce. If you
19 wanted the answer so badly, you would give
20 us the test result instead of representing
21 what the test result is. I, for the life
22 of me, do not understand the logic.
23 You say we can tell you what the
24 test result is, but we can't show you the
25 test result. So trust us, Mr. Ramsey, and
0063
1 answer this hypothetical question.
2 If that information means that
3 much to this investigation, Bruce, you would
4 not hesitate to give us that report, period.
5 So let's move to something else.
6 MR. LEVIN: Let's move on to
7 another topic.
Now I have my deep seated suspicions and have posted about them (for years), but that doesn't mean I have any real proof as obviously and unfortunately the BPD didn't either.
It's sad to think that the killer of JBR is still out there free even though he's hiding from the media...all because there isn't any concrete proof to arrest him with.
If memory serves John had a dark blue terry cloth robe though. There is the possibility that fibers were comingled in the dryer and adhered to the blanket that she was wrapped in and then shedded onto her. Or her long johns could already have had some fibers attached to them that weren't noticed.
Cops often try to trip suspects up by saying "we believe" or "what would you say if I told you we found XX and it appears to have come from..."
They never once in any of the interviews say they know positively that any of the fibers belonged to a certain article of clothing.
10 Q. You provided us with two shirts.
11 One of them had a collar, it's a wool shirt
12 made in Israel. The other one did not have
13 a collar. Do you have a belief as to which
14 one was the actual shirt that you were
15 wearing on Christmas '96?
16 A. I don't remember, I guess. And
17 if I -- well, I think the issue, if I
18 recall was I couldn't remember which one, so
19 I think we sent you both. But I mean, I'd
20 have to look at pictures, I guess, to
21 compare. I don't remember that far back.
22 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I take it, and
23 correct me if I am wrong, please, that the
24 fact that you sent two shirts as opposed to
25 one indicated you were not certain which of
0030
1 the two you were wearing?
2 A. Well, I think that's what we did,
3 but I don't, I mean, I don't remember
4 exactly the logic. I know that we were
5 asked about shoes, and the picture didn't
6 even show shoes, so I couldn't remember what
7 shoes we had on. So was it to send all my
8 shoes or one hundred percent sure.
9 Q. Those items of evidence, did you
10 continue, after the clothing was moved down
11 to Atlanta, after you moved to Atlanta, did
12 you continue to wear them? Were they
13 laundered? Were they -- one of them was
14 wool. I assume that would be dry cleaned.
15 Do you have any recollection in that regard?
16 A. No, I don't.
further down we have an interesting exchange (IMO) Wood clearly is aware of the "trip" tactic and demands actual proof of the fiber evidence. Unfortunately we don't get to see any of it...
19 If you are going to make
20 statements that contain some form of innuendo
21 that an article of clothing might possibly be
22 connected to some portion of the crime scene
23 or this man's daughter's body, I think you
24 have an obligation, not only to him but to
25 whoever reads that report and this
0057
1 transcript, to be candid and give full
2 disclosure, show the people what the results
3 are, show the people what you also had in
4 terms of fiber evidence.
5 We are told there are hundreds of
6 fibers, for example, on the duct tape. And
7 I think you have a fundamental right,
8 fundamental fairness requires that you
9 disclose that information and not single out
10 some hypothetical innuendo that unfairly casts
11 perhaps in someone's mind that reads this
12 some finger of blame at John or Patsy
13 Ramsey. I think it is totally inappropriate
14 for you to do so, but if you want to go
15 ahead and make a record for whatever reason,
16 I certainly am not here to stop you. You
17 have the right.
18 MR. LEVIN: Thank you, Mr. Wood.
19 I appreciate the opportunity.
20 MR. WOOD: Thank you.
21 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, it is
22 our belief based on forensic evidence that
23 there are hairs that are associated, that the
24 source is the collared black shirt that you
25 sent us that are found in your daughter's
0058
1 underpants, and I wondered if you --
2 A. . I don't believe that.
3 I don't buy it. If you are trying to
4 disgrace my relationship with my daughter --
5 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I am not trying to
6 disgrace --
7 A. Well, I don't believe it. I
8 think you are. That's disgusting.
9 MR. WOOD: I think you --
10 MR. LEVIN: I am not.
11 MR. WOOD: Yes, you are.
12 MR. LEVIN: And the follow-up
13 question would be --
14 MR. WOOD: Posing the question in
15 light of what I said to you yesterday is
16 nothing more than an attempt to make a
17 record that unfairly, unjustly, and in a
18 disgusting fashion points what you might
19 consider to be some finger of blame at this
20 man regarding his daughter, and you ought to
21 be ashamed of yourself for doing it, Bruce.
22 You knew we weren't going to
23 answer the question. Why don't you just
24 give us the report, and we'll put it out
25 there for someone to look at and tell us
0059
1 what it says and see how fair and accurate
2 you have been.
3 I know why you said what you said
4 yesterday about Patsy and the fibers and John
5 and the fibers. And you know why you did
6 it, Bruce. Because you want this somehow to
7 get out and then people will read that and
8 be prejudiced even further against this
9 family.
10 I just don't know why you want to
11 do it, but I can't stop you.
12 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood, if you
13 would like to, I would challenge you to find
14 any article anywhere that I have been quoted
15 as giving an opinion or any statement to the
16 press concerning this case.
17 MR. WOOD: You don't have to be
18 quoted. You don't have to be quoted.
19 MR. LEVIN: Or any piece of
20 evidence that I have released.
21 MR. WOOD: You don't have to be
22 quoted. You do not have to be quoted.
23 MR. LEVIN: This is a murder
24 investigation, and I am trying to get an
25 explanation, which can be an innocent
0060
1 explanation.
2 MR. WOOD: It could be, but you
3 pose your question as if it's not not.
4 That's what's unfair. Why don't you let us
5 see the report so we can know exactly what's
6 going on, exactly what other fibers were
7 found in that area so that you don't
8 unfairly cast an aspersion through innuendo
9 or suggestion toward this man and his
10 daughter.
11 It seems to me that you should
12 look over and go look, Mr. Wood, we want
13 your client's help, we will give you the
14 test results if it will help get this
15 answered, if it is so important, we'll tell
16 you whether there was another fiber or fibers
17 found that we doen't know where they came
18 from and maybe he can help you with that
19 information, but that is not what you are
20 doing. You are focusing on what you believe
21 is one specific area. And you are doing it
22 in a way that I think is just unfair.
23 Let me just answer your question
24 about you being quoted. Look, John and
25 Patsy Ramsey sat around for three years and
0061
1 did not go public with this case, even
2 though your people were talking to tabloids
3 and writing books and appearing on
4 television. Linda Arndt, Steve Thomas, Alex
5 Hunter.
6 You want to go through the litany
7 of how your people have publicly prosecuted
8 and persecuted this family, and now they
9 decided enough is enough and they tried to
10 go out with me, yes, sir, and them and try
11 to refute some of the absolute lies that
12 have been told about them. Do you have a
13 problem with that?
14 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood.
15 MR. WOOD: Because your people
16 have been saying it. I am not calling your
17 name. I don't know who it is linked to.
18 I don't know who gave the ransom note to
19 Vanity Fair. I'm not suggesting it is you.
20 But don't sit here and tell me that because
21 Bruce Levin hasn't been quoted that this
22 investigation from the Boulder Police
23 Department and the district attorney's office
24 is a lily white when it comes to talking
25 about this case in the media because that is
0062
1 false, and you know it.
2 MR. LEVIN: Now, Mr. Wood, if I
3 can just respond very briefly, and I want
4 Mr. Ramsey to listen to this because it's
5 important, the suggestion is that I am
6 suggesting that the only explanation for that
7 question is sinister. I am a part of a
8 team conducting an investigation into your
9 daughter's death, and an innocent explanation
10 that would help us further that investigation
11 is very welcome. I am not looking for a
12 sinister answer or innocent answer.
13 MR. WOOD: If you are looking for
14 that, then give us the test result and let
15 us know what it says.
16 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood, the fact
17 of --
18 MR. WOOD: No, Bruce. If you
19 wanted the answer so badly, you would give
20 us the test result instead of representing
21 what the test result is. I, for the life
22 of me, do not understand the logic.
23 You say we can tell you what the
24 test result is, but we can't show you the
25 test result. So trust us, Mr. Ramsey, and
0063
1 answer this hypothetical question.
2 If that information means that
3 much to this investigation, Bruce, you would
4 not hesitate to give us that report, period.
5 So let's move to something else.
6 MR. LEVIN: Let's move on to
7 another topic.
Now I have my deep seated suspicions and have posted about them (for years), but that doesn't mean I have any real proof as obviously and unfortunately the BPD didn't either.
It's sad to think that the killer of JBR is still out there free even though he's hiding from the media...all because there isn't any concrete proof to arrest him with.