Netflix - Elisa Lam

[fairysenses]

Second episode in on the netflix doc.
First of all the hotel manager I get a bad vibe from. There's something I don't like about her. Second did the police find out what floor she was on when she kept looking out the elevator? Did they interview the people on that floor she kept jumping out on? What were the complaints from the other girls she was bunking with it? What day did she fill the scripts and how many pills were left on the last day She was alive. I think she was talking to someone down the hall and someone was holding the button. Did they interview the girls she bunked with? Was she sexually assaulted and then forced into the tank? Was it about humiliation? They made her take her clothes off and threw them in the tank and she jumped in to get them, then the people closed the lid. I do think it was someone who knew the building so a long time resident or someone who worked there. Oh and what was the book about, the one from the book store? The amount of time and being in water diminishes evidence. Lots of crazy coincidences, I definitely don't think the metal rocker killed Elisa. I think it's stupid to connect him to it.

I watched the short Netflix series on Elisa Lam. IMO, this series highlighted the worst of the on-line sleuthing community and how damaging false accusations can be on someone's life. I also think this is one example of why LE has a love/hate relationship with the public when it comes to investigations. IMO

IMO, this was not foul play, but the story of a struggling mentally ill young woman. The elevator video was so sad to watch when you understand the context of it. IMO

I agree with you.

First off, I'd like to say this is going to be long, and I am no means a investigator or anything, I'm a computer analyst. BUT After binging this series and reading about this for years I've got a few questions.

Firstly, and most importantly in my opinion. Both LAPD and the maintenance worker say the lid was ajar at the end of the series, but at the beginning when the search began I recall an officer saying it was closed, and in many documention it is said it is closed, so first a huge flag. But if in fact it was open like they say, then while they searched the roof with the sniffer hounds and helicopter hovered above with a SPOTLIGHT someone should've seen the ajar door, or at least with door being open and with the start of decomposition allow for the hounds to in fact smell her easily. And if the door was ajar bugs and such would've been making their way to her since some of her body would've been at the surface, and not to mention the smell coming from the open lid since the LA sun was baking down on the tanks heating them and the water. They had evidence of multiple people being up there, but no one smelled anything.... So with that there lies a huge issue with either details or work ethic.

Secondly, the autopsy. I've never studied in this field, but I've witnessed a few things that occurred in my life that are similar. Her drowning just isn't plausible to me. A cousin fell in a pool and she got tangled in the cover and basically couldn't get out from under it. She drowned, but her husband didn't find her till about 3 days later(business trip) she had immense amounts of water in her lungs according to doctors, and they found insects in her that were able to tell the date of death. So I don't understand how she had no water at all in her lungs. Or the fact she was naked, I get them saying so she could reduce her weight while treading water, but she was fully naked. Why would she remove her underwear and bra considering it's basically just a bikini, and it that would most likely feel natural.

And when they ran there rape kit I just found it pointless. I was raped a long time ago, and before I reported and went to the police I showered(if you know you know, you don't want to fill dirty anymore) , and because of that the rape kit was useless or so I was told by police and a nurse. So I don't see how a rape kit could even be thought of performing since she was soaking in water for at most 19 days. Or trying to scrap skin from her nails, I just felt like they were doing it to say they tried but new it was nothing.

Lastly, her state of mind and video itself. The LAPD claims they slowed the video down and such. That is believable, but with all of the accusations of them being apart of it would you not find it more beneficial to release the original tape since the retired officer in the series says they still have it in evidence. If they released it fully untouched no one could point out the obvious edit that just doesn't occur, and the time stamp can be shown clearly. I don't see why that information needs hidden now since they've ruled and settled everything now. And the notes she was leaving and how she locked people out, is kinda giving me fear vibes like she knew something others didn't and was maybe trying to throw it out there to her other female roommates. Unless she was schizophrenic with her depression which has not been released or said I believe.

In conclusion, I just don't see how so many trained police officers AND dogs could make so many "human errors" and "overlooking" they did during the entire investigation on the roof. The way the body was found and handled is just very odd to me, and to me it seems police ran a rape kit to seem like they're doing everything, but knew it was pointless. Lastly I feel most of the discomfort and untrust with police could be solved if they would just release the original tape since there's no point to hide it anymore unless there's something there.

And off topic, but I find it so very disrespectful of the way Netflix portrayed this poor girl. They made it seem like she was a sad lost girl who just up and killed her self on a whoopsie. And I find that awful. I just don't see that from her, I see someone who was so happy to find the right depression meds, finding her way in the world, and finally trying to find herself like everyone her age. If you're depressed and you finally find a medication that makes you feel better and allows you to function you just don't stop. They seem to demean her so much, and they seem to just claim it a accidental suicide basically. AND then the new hotel owners want to build a wading pool(legit a pool where you float for hours) and bar on the roof where she died... seems a little suspicious...

I see how it could've been accidental, but there's just some odd things that stuck out to me after seeing the series. I'd love so chit chat to anything if it's already been discussed.

Thank you for writing this, I agree with so many of the points you made here.

 

[fairysenses]

First off, I'd like to say this is going to be long, and I am no means a investigator or anything, I'm a computer analyst. BUT After binging this series and reading about this for years I've got a few questions.

Firstly, and most importantly in my opinion. Both LAPD and the maintenance worker say the lid was ajar at the end of the series, but at the beginning when the search began I recall an officer saying it was closed, and in many documention it is said it is closed, so first a huge flag. But if in fact it was open like they say, then while they searched the roof with the sniffer hounds and helicopter hovered above with a SPOTLIGHT someone should've seen the ajar door, or at least with door being open and with the start of decomposition allow for the hounds to in fact smell her easily. And if the door was ajar bugs and such would've been making their way to her since some of her body would've been at the surface, and not to mention the smell coming from the open lid since the LA sun was baking down on the tanks heating them and the water. They had evidence of multiple people being up there, but no one smelled anything.... So with that there lies a huge issue with either details or work ethic.

Secondly, the autopsy. I've never studied in this field, but I've witnessed a few things that occurred in my life that are similar. Her drowning just isn't plausible to me. A cousin fell in a pool and she got tangled in the cover and basically couldn't get out from under it. She drowned, but her husband didn't find her till about 3 days later(business trip) she had immense amounts of water in her lungs according to doctors, and they found insects in her that were able to tell the date of death. So I don't understand how she had no water at all in her lungs. Or the fact she was naked, I get them saying so she could reduce her weight while treading water, but she was fully naked. Why would she remove her underwear and bra considering it's basically just a bikini, and it that would most likely feel natural.

And when they ran there rape kit I just found it pointless. I was raped a long time ago, and before I reported and went to the police I showered(if you know you know, you don't want to fill dirty anymore) , and because of that the rape kit was useless or so I was told by police and a nurse. So I don't see how a rape kit could even be thought of performing since she was soaking in water for at most 19 days. Or trying to scrap skin from her nails, I just felt like they were doing it to say they tried but new it was nothing.

Lastly, her state of mind and video itself. The LAPD claims they slowed the video down and such. That is believable, but with all of the accusations of them being apart of it would you not find it more beneficial to release the original tape since the retired officer in the series says they still have it in evidence. If they released it fully untouched no one could point out the obvious edit that just doesn't occur, and the time stamp can be shown clearly. I don't see why that information needs hidden now since they've ruled and settled everything now. And the notes she was leaving and how she locked people out, is kinda giving me fear vibes like she knew something others didn't and was maybe trying to throw it out there to her other female roommates. Unless she was schizophrenic with her depression which has not been released or said I believe.

In conclusion, I just don't see how so many trained police officers AND dogs could make so many "human errors" and "overlooking" they did during the entire investigation on the roof. The way the body was found and handled is just very odd to me, and to me it seems police ran a rape kit to seem like they're doing everything, but knew it was pointless. Lastly I feel most of the discomfort and untrust with police could be solved if they would just release the original tape since there's no point to hide it anymore unless there's something there.

And off topic, but I find it so very disrespectful of the way Netflix portrayed this poor girl. They made it seem like she was a sad lost girl who just up and killed her self on a whoopsie. And I find that awful. I just don't see that from her, I see someone who was so happy to find the right depression meds, finding her way in the world, and finally trying to find herself like everyone her age. If you're depressed and you finally find a medication that makes you feel better and allows you to function you just don't stop. They seem to demean her so much, and they seem to just claim it a accidental suicide basically. AND then the new hotel owners want to build a wading pool(legit a pool where you float for hours) and bar on the roof where she died... seems a little suspicious...

I see how it could've been accidental, but there's just some odd things that stuck out to me after seeing the series. I'd love so chit chat to anything if it's already been discussed.

Thank you for pointing out the mixed up claims about whether or not the door open or closed, I took note of that while watching the series.

 

[MsBetsy]

Thanks for the clarification. There was confusion even amongst LAPD personnel for a such a key evidence as to whether the lid was closed or open. And it was only at the lawsuit hearing in 2015 that it was conclusively made known that the lid was open. Did the autopsy report in 2013 mention at all that the lid was open?

I can accept at face value the lid was open but it is very dubious why such a material evidence, which was very easy to determine, was left so ambiguous until 2015.

As for the video, the reason it was slowed down was explained by police as wanting people to have a clearer look at Lam. No reason was given for the cuts. Netizens speculated that the cuts were to remove uninvolved others captured in the video. But that begs the question - why was it necessary at all to show the elevator operating normally, closing and opening on different floors? If it was to prevent speculation about the functioning of the elevator, then shouldn't the slowing down, editing and time code blurring be made known and explained upfront too?

And this is most puzzling aspect of the video. If watching the original slowed down version, at 0:33, the moment Lam stood at the lift buttons corner and we can see almost her full face, the right half of her face breaks into a blur, almost exactly down a center line. This does not occur on any other parts of the video. Then as she moved forward at 0:37, you can see distinct pixelation of her mouth. The blur follows the right half of her face.

At first, I dismissed them as technical glitches. But isn't it really odd that the moment we should be able to see her mouth and the right half of her face clearly, this technical blurring of her face features occurs? Notice also that just as she started to move forward at 0:37, she looked upward towards the direction of the camera and the pixelation became very furious.

These screenshots are from the original video. On the upscaled 4K video, the pixelations are even clearer.

View attachment 286192
View attachment 286193

I don't think there was any mention in the autopsy report of the lid being open. The full report is still available online. We don't know what the maintenance worker said to police, but normally investigators don't release many details during an ongoing investigation, which may be why the public didn't know about it until the hearing.

I've wondered if after he discovered the body he closed the lid himself. It must have been a shock. In his surprise he might have automatically closed the lid without thinking. That would explain why LE reported it being closed. They may not have noticed it from the helicopter during the search.

I'm not sure about police not sharing specific details about the video. Usually when they release surveillance footage to the media they just release it without explanation. I think the goal is to get help from the public in identifying her to see if anybody remembered seeing her.

I think they left the closing and opening of the doors because those are the times when Elisa appears. It probably wouldn't make sense to edit it out if she just appears again moments later.

I think the pixilation is just because the video is poor quality. They probably hadn't upgraded in years. Maybe the image gets worse when she moves quickly. There is a zigzag pattern all around the elevator doors and all around the borders of the floor, but I'm sure that's not what it really looks like.

Imo

 

[Qrious]

I don't think there was any mention in the autopsy report of the lid being open. The full report is still available online. We don't know what the maintenance worker said to police, but normally investigators don't release many details during an ongoing investigation, which may be why the public didn't know about it until the hearing.

I've wondered if after he discovered the body he closed the lid himself. It must have been a shock. In his surprise he might have automatically closed the lid without thinking. That would explain why LE reported it being closed. They may not have noticed it from the helicopter during the search.

I'm not sure about police not sharing specific details about the video. Usually when they release surveillance footage to the media they just release it without explanation. I think the goal is to get help from the public in identifying her to see if anybody remembered seeing her.

I think they left the closing and opening of the doors because those are the times when Elisa appears. It probably wouldn't make sense to edit it out if she just appears again moments later.

I think the pixilation is just because the video is poor quality. They probably hadn't upgraded in years. Maybe the image gets worse when she moves quickly. There is a zigzag pattern all around the elevator doors and all around the borders of the floor, but I'm sure that's not what it really looks like.

Imo

I'm never a conspiracy theorist but I do have much to say about the danger of concluding that because there were no evidences of foul play, therefore it must have been accidental death likely because of the subject's mental state at that time given her history of bipolar disorder and her going off her medication. Firstly our assumption of her mental state at that time is only circumstantial evidence. It might or might not have any direct bearing on her subsequent death. Secondly our assumption could be entirely wrong, skewed as it was by a video that made her behaviour look more bizarre and abnormal than what it really was. What if she was actually happy and on a mental high, and was playing some kind of flirtatious hide-and-seek with some person unseen? We cannot discount this possibility entirely. Indeed, when the video is viewed at correct time speed, she appears playful. I will not go too much into this as there are already long threads on the video.

And the assumption that she was backsliding because she went off her med, what if it was the other way round? She was on a holiday on her own. She was happy, she felt good, she felt confident. What if, therefore, she was confident enough to drop her med? Thus it's not safe to assume that because she did not take her med, it was why she lapsed into her strange behaviour in the elevator.

And as to exactly what kind of behaviour is consistent with that from a bipolar person? There is no definite pattern of how a bizarre behaviour should be. So it may include almost any kind of behaviour that seems odd.

So even if EL were playacting in that video, people would assume she was behaving oddly because of her bipolar. That to me is the danger of concluding it is 'B' because of 'A' and 'A' leads to 'B'.

The conclusion that she went into the water tank herself and drowned there may be correct, but there are loose ends that are not resolved, or neatly resolved.

One is the water tank lid. My exact thoughts too that the maintenance guy might have closed the lid without thinking. But it would be hard not to think that one of the first questions investigators would have asked him would be whether the lid was open or closed when he saw it. It is so elementary to establish this important evidence right from the beginning. It is just inconceivable to me that any investigator would have overlooked it or 'miscommunicated' it to their public spokesman, and left it at that for months. It just sounds fishy. The way the maintenance worker looked away when answering that the lid was open is disconcerting. And Netflix presenting this important fact as a twist after leading audience to think otherwise is downright cheap and disgusting. I know no satisfactory answers will ever be forthcoming. So this will remain a cause for doubt.

As for the video, the only explanation given was for the slowing of the video. If I'm not wrong, when asked about the missing seconds, the investigator gave a shrug. I take it to mean he didn't know the reason. The hotel manager gave police the videos as they were. Of course she did not tamper with the videos, but that does not mean she was sure no one else had tampered with the videos. She basically just passed on what her employees gave her.

The missing seconds were not explained off by police but by the internet community assuming that they were edited out to exclude innocent people. But all the missing seconds happened after EL had left the scene. So why bother showing that segment in the first place? The urgency was to find EL, so why made people waste an extra one and half minute watching the elevator door closing and opening? It may actually be of no relevance, but little unexplained loose ends do add up.

As for the pixelations, I'm not a video expert but I do know some about compression artefacts. A common one is jagged lines such as on the lift door and inside panels. But half a face breaking away in a blurry mess which then follows the face as it moves? And a sharp straight line border (not pixelated) down the middle of the face to boot? And such huge pixelations nowhere else but on the mouth which also follows it as it moves? (Interesting to note here that EL's exposed upper gum when she smiles is probably her most recognisable feature.) Can all the above be considered random compression artefacts? I hope some video people can enlighten.

As a matter of fact, I stopped following EL case after the autopsy report came out. But something about Netflix presentation got me rethinking the case. Instead of digging for answers to the hard questions, Netflix merely re-presents all that have been discussed and speculated online. It turns the case into a moral tale and somehow managed to get all the key participants, i.e. the investigators, the hotel manager, the maintenance worker, the internet sleuths - almost everyone short of the family - in it. Knowing what Netflix can and is prepared to do to gain subscribers, its presentation roused a skepticism in me about this case that I did not have before. While most people feel sad that EL tragically lost her life because of her mental health, I feel sad because I think she was on the way up and getting more confident of herself, but tragically became the victim of someone's mischief not amounting to murder (in my own deduction). I feel sadder that she is now forever seen by most people as just a mentally ill person who has lost her life because of her own mental state.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm never a conspiracy theorist but I do have much to say about the danger of concluding that because there were no evidences of foul play, therefore it must have been accidental death likely because of the subject's mental state at that time given her history of bipolar disorder and her going off her medication. Firstly our assumption of her mental state at that time is only circumstantial evidence. It might or might not have any direct bearing on her subsequent death. Secondly our assumption could be entirely wrong, skewed as it was by a video that made her behaviour look more bizarre and abnormal than what it really was. What if she was actually happy and on a mental high, and was playing some kind of flirtatious hide-and-seek with some person unseen? We cannot discount this possibility entirely. Indeed, when the video is viewed at correct time speed, she appears playful. I will not go too much into this as there are already long threads on the video.

And the assumption that she was backsliding because she went off her med, what if it was the other way round? She was on a holiday on her own. She was happy, she felt good, she felt confident. What if, therefore, she was confident enough to drop her med? Thus it's not safe to assume that because she did not take her med, it was why she lapsed into her strange behaviour in the elevator.

And as to exactly what kind of behaviour is consistent with that from a bipolar person? There is no definite pattern of how a bizarre behaviour should be. So it may include almost any kind of behaviour that seems odd.

So even if EL were playacting in that video, people would assume she was behaving oddly because of her bipolar. That to me is the danger of concluding it is 'B' because we know 'A' and 'A' leads to 'B'.

The conclusion that she went into the water tank herself and drowned there may be correct, but there are loose ends that are not resolved, or neatly resolved.

One is the water tank lid. My exact thoughts too that the maintenance guy might have closed the lid without thinking. But it would be hard not to think that one of the first questions investigators would have asked him would be whether the lid was open or closed when he saw it. It is so elementary to establish this important evidence right from the beginning. It is just impossible to me that any investigator would have overlooked it or 'miscommunicated' it to their public spokesman, and left it at that for months. It just sounds fishy. The way the maintenance worker looked away when answering that the lid was open is disconcerting. And Netflix presenting this important fact as a twist after leading audience to think otherwise is downright cheap and disgusting. I know no satisfactory answers will ever be forthcoming. So this will remain a cause for doubt.

As for the video, the only explanation given was for the slowing of the video. If I'm not wrong, when asked about the missing seconds, the investigator gave a shrug. I take it to mean he didn't know the reason. The hotel manager gave police the videos as they were. Of course she did not tamper with the videos, but that does not mean she was sure no one else had tampered with the videos. She basically just passed on what her employees gave her.

The missing seconds were not explained off by police but by the internet community assuming that they were edited out to exclude innocent people. But all the missing seconds happened after EL had left the scene. So why bother showing that segment in the first place? The urgency was to find EL, so why made people waste an extra one and half minute watching the elevator door closing and opening? It may actually be of no relevance, but little unexplained loose ends do add up.

As for the pixelations, I'm not a video expert but I do know some about compression artefacts. A common one is jagged lines such as on the lift door and inside panels. But half a face breaking away in a blurry mess which then follows the face as it moves? And a sharp straight line border (not pixelated) down the middle of the face to boot? And such huge pixelations nowhere else but on the mouth which also follows it as it moves? (Interesting to note here that EL's exposed upper gum when she smiles is probably her most recognisable feature.) Can all the above be considered random compression artefacts? I hope some video people can enlighten.

As a matter of fact, I stopped following EL case after the autopsy report came out. But something about Netflix presentation got me rethinking the case. Instead of digging for answers to the hard questions, Netflix merely re-presents all that have been discussed and speculated online. It turns the case into a moral tale and somehow managed to get all the key participants, i.e. the investigators, the hotel manager, the maintenance worker, the internet sleuths - almost everyone short of the family - in it. Knowing what Netflix can and is prepared to do to gain subscribers, its presentation roused a skepticism in me about this case that I did not have before. While most people feel sad that EL tragically lost her life because of her mental health, I feel sad because I think she was on the way up and getting more confident of herself, but tragically became the victim of someone's mischief not amounting to murder (in my own deduction). I feel sadder that she is now forever seen by most people as just a mentally ill person who has lost her life because of her own mental state.

I think many people with bipolar disorder like the "high" and the euphoria they sometimes feel when experiencing a manic episode. I wouldn't be surprised if she did stop taking her meds because she felt more confident. That's definitely possible. It's also dangerous, especially if she stopped taking the anti-psychotic. Whether or not she was playing a game and went into the tank to hide, or she was in fear of her life, doesn't make much of a difference considering the outcome. Since her sister described her as having delusions and being paranoid when she went off her meds, that seems like the most reasonable explanation.

I think that LE found no evidence of foul play is significant. Perpetrators almost always leave something behind. There were no prints on the ladder or around the tank, no DNA, no hairs or fibers connected to anybody else. There was no trauma or injuries on her body. I have no doubt LE searched for clues that would prove she was murdered, but they would have no choice than to rule it out if there was no evidence.

And yes, it would have been great if the documentary had focused more on Elisa's life and her experiences rather than all the conspiracy theories, but I think Elisa's parents are very private and not willing to speak to the media. Netflix seemed to present it more of a mystery, probably to make it more interesting.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never felt that Elisa was just a mentally ill person who lost her life because of her mental state.

 

[tiktaalik]

(I am halfway through the Netflix doc so I don't know if they'll touch on this question)

This case may have been one of the first to peak my interest into true crime, it's been itching in the back of my head for years now.

I am throughly convinced that Elisa did not find her way into that tank on her own.

The best thing I've learned from the doc so far is the layout of the hotel, the roof itself, and the access to that roof. The following train of thought relies on the theory that Elisa accessed the fire escape from the second floor, where the dogs last tracked her scent inside the hotel:

If she was already dead/incapacitated before she ended up inside, someone would've had to drag her through the window, up the fire escape, up the tank, and then toss her in. That's a lot of heave lifting, and I find it hard to believe that two people could've done the cumbersome work of navigating a twisting staircase and vertical ladder; it just doesn't make feasible sense. Maybe a lone person could've succeeded with her body strapped to their back, but they'd have to be a fairly large person to do that quickly, and keep in mind the small window and narrow fire escape. Perhaps conspicuousness doesn't matter though, as people were so accustomed to horrible noises, that maybe even the sight of someone dragging a body wouldn't have flapped a seasoned Cecil resident. That being said, this was the 5th floor, which was apparently not as intense as the highest floors (though elevator surveillance footage shows her stopped in the elevator on the 14th).
All of the above options seem improbable to me. Despite the title, I don't believe Elisa was carried at all. I think she was coaxed. Maybe she was under the influence, maybe this beautiful naive soul met a new "friend" with the worst intentions. Maybe they were playing an adorable game of hide and seek by the elevators.

The only physical possibility that makes sense in this theory is that she went up on her own. Now, my thinking in the post is not including any theories of her entering via the stairs, I'm only relying off of the scent evidence here, there's so many possible options. As for the manner of death, with no (reported) physical trauma, I wonder if maybe she overdosed on the roof, and her companion panicked.

I'm desperate to hear any other theories

 

[norest4thewicked]

I don't think there is a mystery here. I think she walked up herself and got in the tank herself. It might have been suicide or it might have been just a way she thought she could cool off in the heat. But, the water level went down as people used it and it was impossible for her to get back up. Very sad story but not much of a mystery in my mind.

 

[meanmaryjean]

I don't think there is a mystery here. I think she walked up herself and got in the tank herself. It might have been suicide or it might have been just a way she thought she could cool off in the heat. But, the water level went down as people used it and it was impossible for her to get back up. Very sad story but not much of a mystery in my mind.

Agree. Sadly

 

[tiktaalik]

I don't think there is a mystery here. I think she walked up herself and got in the tank herself. It might have been suicide or it might have been just a way she thought she could cool off in the heat. But, the water level went down as people used it and it was impossible for her to get back up. Very sad story but not much of a mystery in my mind.

I suppose I should've waited until the end of the documentary to post. The ending was very sobering. This is the case that got me into true crime and unsolved mysteries, I always thought there was some twisted, wicked cause. I think you're absolutely right now, that it's all just a big, sad, misunderstanding. So unfortunate.

 

[sony12]

I think many people with bipolar disorder like the "high" and the euphoria they sometimes feel when experiencing a manic episode. I wouldn't be surprised if she did stop taking her meds because she felt more confident. That's definitely possible. It's also dangerous, especially if she stopped taking the anti-psychotic. Whether or not she was playing a game and went into the tank to hide, or she was in fear of her life, doesn't make much of a difference considering the outcome. Since her sister described her as having delusions and being paranoid when she went off her meds, that seems like the most reasonable explanation.

I think that LE found no evidence of foul play is significant. Perpetrators almost always leave something behind. There were no prints on the ladder or around the tank, no DNA, no hairs or fibers connected to anybody else. There was no trauma or injuries on her body. I have no doubt LE searched for clues that would prove she was murdered, but they would have no choice than to rule it out if there was no evidence.

And yes, it would have been great if the documentary had focused more on Elisa's life and her experiences rather than all the conspiracy theories, but I think Elisa's parents are very private and not willing to speak to the media. Netflix seemed to present it more of a mystery, probably to make it more interesting.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never felt that Elisa was just a mentally ill person who lost her life because of her mental state.

Many people who have conditions that require them to take meds pretty much for the rest of their lives (be it something like Lam had or epilepsy would be another example) don't like taking their meds. Either they don't like admitting that something is wrong with them or (often is the case) the meds have some side effects that they don't like. Instead of just going to their doctor though and finding a med that is more comfortable for them they decide to try to find ways to medicate themselves. Lam definitely isn't the only example of a tragedy happening because someone decided to go off their meds. It was just a mystery so it became a popular story in the publics eye.

 

[ArmchairDetective74]

I get the intrigue but if occam's razor ever applied to a case this is the one.

 

[sony12]

I get the intrigue but if occam's razor ever applied to a case this is the one.

Yep that is also the case with most mysterious deaths/disappearances. Most amateur sleuths tend to have a habit of overthinking things.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I enjoyed the series. IMO we all have theories, ideas, thoughts, experiences, knowledge etc of cases we individually care about, regardless of the platform. In general, most people are good and just want to help.

 

[Sam5286]

Morbid's song about a Chinese girl dying, where noone can hear her screams, in a deep ocean is influenced by the film Dark Waters (I think that's the name). Morbid lived at the Cecil a year before her death, someone living or working at the Cecil could have been influenced by the song and the film and killed Elisa.
The British couple staying at the Cecil at the time said 5 days into their stay, around time the water went brown, there was a loud party going on with the smell of weed, near their room.Which floor was that on?
I think the fact that the maintenance guy was very vague in the netflix series, not mentioning whether the lid was on or off until directly asked later on, is suspicious.
I've checked the footage and there was definitely a ladder leaning against the 3rd water tank.
The 50 secs missing could have been the killer, another guest, or an employee trying to get her away from the 14th floor which was out of bounds to guests. However LAPD state that there is nothing suspicious on the original hard drive copy, indicating there was noone else in the lift. So why did MSM edit those 50 secs?
The LAPD state they dont know if it was their media department or MSM that edited the video but seemed sure it was not the hotel. Surely they could easily eliminate LAPD?
The coroner seems to contradict himself regarding the date of the death because firstly he says the dates on the form were wrong due to human error, then he said the dates are both the same, and had been misinterpreted.Which was it human error or misinterpretation?
When and why did Elisa stop using her birth name and change it to the name of a test for tuberculosis? Did she work in the tuberculosis clinic within her biology department?
John Sobhani, one of the web sleuths who visited the Cecil several days after her body was found said the door alarm wasn't working when he pushed it yet Amy Price says it was working.
LAPD state they pick up and lose her scent at the window on floor 5 where her room was, supporting the view that she went up the fire escape ladder from there. But did the dogs search every floor or just this one? Losing the scent there plays nicely into the netflix conclusion that she went from her room, up the fire escape and into the tank herself, ie NO NEGLIGENCE ON PART OF HOTEL, NO FAULTY ROOF DOOR ALARM. Was Amy lying about the alarm working?
If she did go onto the fire escape ladder on floor 5 then she wouldn't have been able to see that on the 14th floor it changes to a ladder with no enclosed bannister.
I find it strange that the detectives in netflix fail to mention from the outset that she had bipolar, until after the toxicology report shows psychiatric drugs. They describe her behaviour in the elevator as strange, but they must have known she was mentally ill by then. Surely the family told them when they reported her missing which caused LAPD to view it as risk to a vulnerable person and thus send 14 detectives to the Cecil. Otherwise I think it unlikely that they would have reacted so quickly and in force, to a 21 year old missing for only 24 hours. It doesn't add up that the family didn't disclose this from the start.
I find it strange that they found no finger prints around the hatch to indicate a potential suspect.
Why did Santiago close the hatch lid after discovering Elisa? Why is he vague about whether the lid was on or off when he discovered her?
The body language expert said she was looking at herself in the mirror opposite the elevator and playing with her hair, showing she was aroused. I think she was trying to activate the sensor by gesticulating but the counting on her fingers, was direct communication to someone.
She was blogging about struggling with unwanted attention from Mexicans etc and she had arranged to meet up with a guy the day before. The police eliminated him because HE SAID he didn't meet her. What if he DID come to the Cecil in anger, when she turned him down, knowing where she was staying.
Could it be that the 50 secs missing from the tape had captured the killer but was removed on privacy grounds?
It could have been one of the people she had arranged to meet up with or an employee, leading her up to the 14th floor to go on the roof.

 

[Lucirveous]

I liked the documentary. I learned some things I had not heard before. Felt bad about how Morbid was treated by strangers. Glad WS does not allow speculation.

He's such a sweetheart. I feel so bad. His life is ruined, he said that in an interview I saw. Poor thing.

 

[Waxy]

What stood out to me from this documentary, was that she was staying in a dorm with others and was forced to leave and be in a room alone. Firstly this would be very upsetting - to be evicted from a shared room, particularly in a hotel which had such a graphic history and was known to be very rough and dodgy.
Secondly who asked her to leave the room, why and who implemented this move? I think this is key to the story. I know her disappearance wasn't deemed to be a 'crime' initially, so it could be that her room mates were untraceable by the time this was followed up, but it concerns me.
I sense a conspiracy against her and at the very least a lack of care or support for whatever it was caused her to behave in a 'disturbing manner'.

 

[sony12]

What stood out to me from this documentary, was that she was staying in a dorm with others and was forced to leave and be in a room alone. Firstly this would be very upsetting - to be evicted from a shared room, particularly in a hotel which had such a graphic history and was known to be very rough and dodgy.
Secondly who asked her to leave the room, why and who implemented this move? I think this is key to the story. I know her disappearance wasn't deemed to be a 'crime' initially, so it could be that her room mates were untraceable by the time this was followed up, but it concerns me.
I sense a conspiracy against her and at the very least a lack of care or support for whatever it was caused her to behave in a 'disturbing manner'.

Her roomates went and complained about her and asked if they could go to a different room because she was acting weird.

There wasn't any conspiracy against her. Two people simply wanted to get away from someone who was acting unstable. She was unstable because she wasn't properly medicating herself.

 

[Userid]

Her roomates went and complained about her and asked if they could go to a different room because she was acting weird.

There wasn't any conspiracy against her. Two people simply wanted to get away from someone who was acting unstable. She was unstable because she wasn't properly medicating herself.

Agree, and also, who wouldn't like getting their own room anyway? Seems much more preferable than sharing a room with multiple strangers.

 

[Romanstarr]

So Elisa Lam Is Canadian.
Her screen name on Tumblr was in French.

Question: what is the Cecil Hotel considered in many peoples opinions

Answer: Translate her name backwards in French.

R...

 

[Moonbyul_ismywife]

Yes she could have been murdered but it is more likely that it actually was and accidental drowning. If you wanna know why then reply to this and I'll explain what I think.