Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[stephsb]

Wow, so the document doesn't already exist as a .pdf ? It's 2016 now, right ?

Makes sense though, given the apparent lack of technology at used in the system.

Thanks for that info, and explanation.

I can't speak for Manitowoc county, since every jurisdiction has different rules, but they may have copies stored online, at least for some of the documents, but I imagine the large size is why they aren't doing digital. The files are stored in 26 legal file boxes so uploading them is going to be a monumental task. There was talk amongst their group of trying to contact Avery's girlfriend, who has all the files in hard copy, and seeing what she could do, or putting together a crowd funding effort to cover the cost. Not sure where they will go w. This but just wanted to keep everyone updated since I've seen a lot of questions/comments about the Avery trial transcripts

Edit: I'll try to link the reddit page I saw it on when I get back to my laptop, they were far more detailed than I was and posted specific Manitowoc court rules, how to request transcripts, that kind of stuff


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[Jaiddie]

One of the best and most logical posts, I have read, imo Also I am presently on #3 for Steven and #4 for Brendan. Brendan's story is exactly what he originally wrote for that evil investigator...It's how almost all of his "confessions" began before whoever was doing the questioning whichever time (insert preferred interrogation here) completely twisted his story to what they wanted him to say. :tantrum:

 

[HastingsChi]

I completely think LE planted evidence in the OJ case because they believed he was guilty and wanted to bolster evidence. I think, had they not done that the defense wouldn't have been able to raise as many questions as they would have got a guilty verdict instead.

I appreciate your candor. As someone well versed in the actual evidence in Simpson, it's completely surreal to observe a public that completely rejected, belittled & ignored the same arguments in Simpson are so vocal and adamant that police corruption exists in the Avery murder case which has far less evidence to substantiate the allegations. This would make for a fascinating study in public reactions and media influence/manipulation.

 

[mcwhit]

More questions on DNA... and please, I am a total lay person who is attempting to grasp DNA evidence. Any help is appreciated. This is what I've been reading:

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/SimplifiedGuideDNA.pdf

The FAQ section is what I have questions on (it wouldn't just let me cut and paste that section). What exactly was the DNA evidence report on SA's DNA on the hood latch? Complete or partial profile?

 

[MaxManning]

I believe that she left a blank bill of sale along with the copy of Auto Trader at the prior locations as well. The bill of sale wasn't a receipt for her services. It is a form that needs to be completed after the customer sells the vehicle, so it should be blank.

If true, you are right.

I will go through that testimony again in dassey trial transcripts, but in the opening statement, this is the wording :

"the bill of sale, thecompletion of the transaction "

So maybe it was Kratz implying that the bill of sale was filled out at the other locations ?

I'll see if I can verify that by looking at the actual client statements.

No doubt, if what you are saying is true, that clears up one major red flag in regards to the appointment in my mind.

My understanding of a bill of sale is that it might be a carbon copy that says -- you paid $40 for these pictures. But maybe you are right, that they leave them a blank one for when/if the vehicle gets sold.

I'll see if I can clarify this. Thanks for noting this.

 

[stephsb]

Is there real evidence of double relations among the Avery family? I remember reading that somewhere, but not sure of its veracity. What kind of impact would that have on a DNA result? Meaning, how similar is the DNA between the Avery siblings?

Chuck, Earl, Steven, Allen, Dolores, Barb, Brian and Bobby Dassey all gave DNA during the initial investigation. I am not an expert on DNA so can't answer how similar DNA would be, but since they have Chuck and Earl's DNA on record I imagine they couldn't make a match.

As for if there is any truth to the rumors of incest, this is something I hear amongst locals all the time. My uncle delivered to their property, he believes this firmly, as do most other people I have talked to about the Avery's. As far as I can tell, this is just an extremely nasty rumor that I wish would not be mentioned. If someone has actual evidence otherwise, I have not seen it yet. This is one reason I wish that the trial would have been moved out of southeast WI- this is a rumor that is pretty widespread amongst the area, and it's completely irrelevant to guilt or innocence, but adds to the negative view of the Avery's. I understand a lot of locals have a negative view of the Avery's because of personal interactions and their criminal history, but I hear the incest rumor mentioned far too often.




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[MaxManning]

I believe that she left a blank bill of sale along with the copy of Auto Trader at the prior locations as well. The bill of sale wasn't a receipt for her services. It is a form that needs to be completed after the customer sells the vehicle, so it should be blank.

I found the bill of sale document in the video, and you are correct, it's for when he sells the car itself. That clears up a huge red flag for me personally, as I misunderstood the purpose of the document. The wording in the transcripts might lead one to believe -- for me it did -- that it was for her pictures. But as blurry as the photo is in the video, I can make out that it has a buyer and seller signature, so that would indicate a bill of sale for if/when the car is sold.

Thanks so much for pointing that out.

Now a bill of sale actually is a positive thing for Steve Avery in my mind, and would fit her just giving him these things and leaving. He just puts them on the computer desk. The fact that it's not filled out, make complete sense as that is expected.

 

[norest4thewicked]

I have different thoughts about BD than I do SA. It's too much to argue both at once since I feel very differently about the two. So, I'm concentrating on SA and the film itself.

I don't feel the key appeared out of nowhere. I don't believe she was killed in the house. I don't believe that LE did everything right.

And, I agree with you about living in a society of good people. But, your idea on who the bad guys are in this situation are different than who I think the bad guys are.

 

[mcwhit]

Chuck, Earl, Steven, Allen, Dolores, Barb, Brian and Bobby Dassey all gave DNA during the initial investigation. I am not an expert on DNA so can't answer how similar DNA would be, but since they have Chuck and Earl's DNA on record I imagine they couldn't make a match.

As for if there is any truth to the rumors of incest, this is something I hear amongst locals all the time. My uncle delivered to their property, he believes this firmly, as do most other people I have talked to about the Avery's. As far as I can tell, this is just an extremely nasty rumor that I wish would not be mentioned. If someone has actual evidence otherwise, I have not seen it yet. This is one reason I wish that the trial would have been moved out of southeast WI- this is a rumor that is pretty widespread amongst the area, and it's completely irrelevant to guilt or innocence, but adds to the negative view of the Avery's. I understand a lot of locals have a negative view of the Avery's because of personal interactions and their criminal history, but I hear the incest rumor mentioned far too often.
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Okay, so no actual evidence of double relations, just nasty rumor.

Was the DNA sample collected from the hood latch a partial or full profile? Here's what the link I cited in a previous post says about partial profiles:

Partial Profiles: In cases where samples have very low quantities of DNA, are exposed to extreme environmental conditions or are not properly preserved, it may be difficult to obtain a full DNA profile and the test may only yield a partial profile. However, partial profiles may be still be helpful in determining if an individual could be included or excluded in the investigation.

EDIT: paste from link was wonky. Typed it in.

 

[missy1974]

In my search for something else, I came across this document. It is from BD's court case and it lists the exhibits, starting on page 12.
http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/courtdocs/courtRecordEvents06CF88.pdf

These are what stood out to me:
Exhibit 48, photo of handcuffs taken from Barb Tadych's bedroom.
Exhibit 49, photo of Barb Tadych's bedroom showing handcuffs and leg irons.
Exhibit 50, photo of leg irons taken from Barb Tadych's residence.
Exhibit 61, pink fur-lined leg irons.

Exhibit 84, photo of handcuffs found in Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 85, photo of leg irons found in Avery's bedroom
Exhibit 91, handcuffs seized from Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 92, leg irons seized from Avery's bedroom

Exhibit 95, photo of burn barrel located in the front yard of Steven Avery's residence.
Exhibit 96, photo of the interior of the burn barrel.
Exhibit 97, photo of burned pieces of three electronic devices recovered from the burn barrel.

I have seen questions, and I have had the same questions about some of these items. The handcuffs/leg irons were NOT burned, they were photographed and taken in as evidence from both Barb's and Steven's residences. Exhibit 61 says pink fur lined leg irons, I'm assuming but not sure that they are the same one's photographed?

The camera, phone, and I think palm pilot were found in a burn barrel in SA's front yard... not the burn site behind the garage. So he burned them separately? and then left them in the front yard???

I am having a hard time finding some stuff online now .... someone had put a ton of documents on dropbox but I can't seem to access them now, and I can't get to convolutedbrians website now, it says that the account has been suspended, I was surprised the above link still worked ;-)

 

[norest4thewicked]

No, not joking at all. I just don't happen to share the same beliefs as you. Just because I feel differently, doesn't mean what I say is a joke. It really doesn't. That is what Websleuths is all about.

 

[MaxManning]

Chuck, Earl, Steven, Allen, Dolores, Barb, Brian and Bobby Dassey all gave DNA during the initial investigation. I am not an expert on DNA so can't answer how similar DNA would be, but since they have Chuck and Earl's DNA on record I imagine they couldn't make a match.

As for if there is any truth to the rumors of incest, this is something I hear amongst locals all the time. My uncle delivered to their property, he believes this firmly, as do most other people I have talked to about the Avery's. As far as I can tell, this is just an extremely nasty rumor that I wish would not be mentioned. If someone has actual evidence otherwise, I have not seen it yet. This is one reason I wish that the trial would have been moved out of southeast WI- this is a rumor that is pretty widespread amongst the area, and it's completely irrelevant to guilt or innocence, but adds to the negative view of the Avery's. I understand a lot of locals have a negative view of the Avery's because of personal interactions and their criminal history, but I hear the incest rumor mentioned far too often.




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The avery appeal docs list a case # for Earl being charged with sexual assault of his two daughters. Charged is different than convicted, so that should be noted.

We also have the conversation between Brendan and Barb Janda that seems to implicate Steve in molesting brendan and other family members. However, I am somewhat suspicious of whether that too might have been something that investigators might have tried to get brendan to say. You clearly hear him say that investigators tell him he could get a reduced sentence for answering in the way they desired. So while it does get said to Barb, we do have examples of him changing his story to Barb depending on whatever he has been told by investigators.

I also agree that the trial should have been moved. Strang did speak about the 6 strikes he had for removing jurors, and he stated that the 6 he struck, were more troubling to him than the father of a Manitiwoc county deputy. He doesn't expound on specifics, but I would imagine that anyone in Wisconsin was potentially highly biased. But, think about that... He found 6 people more troubling than a father of a Manitiwoc county deputy!

 

[Safeguard]

This is mind-blowing! Thank goodness for science. It speaks for itself.

I have different thoughts about BD than I do SA. It's too much to argue both at once since I feel very differently about the two. So, I'm concentrating on SA and the film itself.

I don't feel the key appeared out of nowhere. I don't believe she was killed in the house. I don't believe that LE did everything right.

And, I agree with you about living in a society of good people. But, your idea on who the bad guys are in this situation are different than who I think the bad guys are.

The key didn't appear out of nowhere. It appeared out of Lenk's pocket.

 

[Aleph]

He was 20 when that happened? Again, while he was minimizing the incident, he gave the impression he was a youngster.

He was also part of a group, wasn't he? Young men + mob mentality + low IQ + showing off + alcohol = terrible things happen all the time. I don't think it's the same as a budding serial killer torturing animals in private, sober.

 

[stephsb]

In my search for something else, I came across this document. It is from BD's court case and it lists the exhibits, starting on page 12.
http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/courtdocs/courtRecordEvents06CF88.pdf

These are what stood out to me:
Exhibit 48, photo of handcuffs taken from Barb Tadych's bedroom.
Exhibit 49, photo of Barb Tadych's bedroom showing handcuffs and leg irons.
Exhibit 50, photo of leg irons taken from Barb Tadych's residence.
Exhibit 61, pink fur-lined leg irons.

Exhibit 84, photo of handcuffs found in Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 85, photo of leg irons found in Avery's bedroom
Exhibit 91, handcuffs seized from Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 92, leg irons seized from Avery's bedroom

Exhibit 95, photo of burn barrel located in the front yard of Steven Avery's residence.
Exhibit 96, photo of the interior of the burn barrel.
Exhibit 97, photo of burned pieces of three electronic devices recovered from the burn barrel.

I have seen questions, and I have had the same questions about some of these items. The handcuffs/leg irons were NOT burned, they were photographed and taken in as evidence from both Barb's and Steven's residences. Exhibit 61 says pink fur lined leg irons, I'm assuming but not sure that they are the same one's photographed?

The camera, phone, and I think palm pilot were found in a burn barrel in SA's front yard... not the burn site behind the garage. So he burned them separately? and then left them in the front yard???

I am having a hard time finding some stuff online now .... someone had put a ton of documents on dropbox but I can't seem to access them now, and I can't get to convolutedbrians website now, it says that the account has been suspended, I was surprised the above link still worked ;-)

The pink fur lined leg irons were Barb's I'm assuming? Just thought that was interesting as Brendan identified the leg irons used as "regular color" and then when pushed described them as "silver", so I'm assuming that is what Steven's looked like, or I'm sure the investigators would have coerced him to say pink


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[norest4thewicked]

The key didn't appear out of nowhere. It appeared out of Lenk's pocket.

Yes, I can see that is your opinion. Doesn't make it so, however.

 

[norest4thewicked]

He was also part of a group, wasn't he? Young men + mob mentality + low IQ + showing off + alcohol = terrible things happen all the time. I don't think it's the same as a budding serial killer torturing animals in private, sober.

I was young once and although not a man, I can't imagine that being young, low IQ, showing off or alcohol would make a person do such a horrendous thing to another living creature. Most people just don't have it in them, thank God.

 

[keeponsearching]

In my search for something else, I came across this document. It is from BD's court case and it lists the exhibits, starting on page 12.
http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/courtdocs/courtRecordEvents06CF88.pdf

These are what stood out to me:
Exhibit 48, photo of handcuffs taken from Barb Tadych's bedroom.
Exhibit 49, photo of Barb Tadych's bedroom showing handcuffs and leg irons.
Exhibit 50, photo of leg irons taken from Barb Tadych's residence.
Exhibit 61, pink fur-lined leg irons.

Exhibit 84, photo of handcuffs found in Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 85, photo of leg irons found in Avery's bedroom
Exhibit 91, handcuffs seized from Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 92, leg irons seized from Avery's bedroom
Exhibit 95, photo of burn barrel located in the front yard of Steven Avery's residence.
Exhibit 96, photo of the interior of the burn barrel.
Exhibit 97, photo of burned pieces of three electronic devices recovered from the burn barrel.

I have seen questions, and I have had the same questions about some of these items. The handcuffs/leg irons were NOT burned, they were photographed and taken in as evidence from both Barb's and Steven's residences. Exhibit 61 says pink fur lined leg irons, I'm assuming but not sure that they are the same one's photographed?

The camera, phone, and I think palm pilot were found in a burn barrel in SA's front yard... not the burn site behind the garage. So he burned them separately? and then left them in the front yard???

I am having a hard time finding some stuff online now .... someone had put a ton of documents on dropbox but I can't seem to access them now, and I can't get to convolutedbrians website now, it says that the account has been suspended, I was surprised the above link still worked ;-)

I've been here for years and I have no idea what is appropriate and allowed in cutting quotes so they are not super long... lol Usually I don't reply with quote.

I thought what I have in bold above was burned also wth. I wonder whose dna showed up on them.......

 

[SCHMAE]

I appreciate your candor. As someone well versed in the actual evidence in Simpson, it's completely surreal to observe a public that completely rejected, belittled & ignored the same arguments in Simpson are so vocal and adamant that police corruption exists in the Avery murder case which has far less evidence to substantiate the allegations. This would make for a fascinating study in public reactions and media influence/manipulation.

Sorry but I had no internet and certainly not WS during OJ Simpson , so I cannot comment. But I agree your last comment about a study in media influence and manipulation and mass hysteria. That's what we're currently seeing with Avery and the docu.

 

[MaxManning]

In my search for something else, I came across this document. It is from BD's court case and it lists the exhibits, starting on page 12.
http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/courtdocs/courtRecordEvents06CF88.pdf

These are what stood out to me:
Exhibit 48, photo of handcuffs taken from Barb Tadych's bedroom.
Exhibit 49, photo of Barb Tadych's bedroom showing handcuffs and leg irons.
Exhibit 50, photo of leg irons taken from Barb Tadych's residence.
Exhibit 61, pink fur-lined leg irons.

Exhibit 84, photo of handcuffs found in Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 85, photo of leg irons found in Avery's bedroom
Exhibit 91, handcuffs seized from Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 92, leg irons seized from Avery's bedroom

Exhibit 95, photo of burn barrel located in the front yard of Steven Avery's residence.
Exhibit 96, photo of the interior of the burn barrel.
Exhibit 97, photo of burned pieces of three electronic devices recovered from the burn barrel.

I have seen questions, and I have had the same questions about some of these items. The handcuffs/leg irons were NOT burned, they were photographed and taken in as evidence from both Barb's and Steven's residences. Exhibit 61 says pink fur lined leg irons, I'm assuming but not sure that they are the same one's photographed?

The camera, phone, and I think palm pilot were found in a burn barrel in SA's front yard... not the burn site behind the garage. So he burned them separately? and then left them in the front yard???

I am having a hard time finding some stuff online now .... someone had put a ton of documents on dropbox but I can't seem to access them now, and I can't get to convolutedbrians website now, it says that the account has been suspended, I was surprised the above link still worked ;-)

I have come to the conclusion that rape is not even something we should assume happened. I do believe that they found these items and then decided they were something they could feed to brendan and get some reaction or statement involving them, which they did.

Police found the cuffs and leg irons in Barb Janda's bedroom the day they recovered the bleached pants and discovered the recording of teresa halbach on Barb Janda's answering machine.

Steve also had cuffs and leg irons.

But there is ZERO evidence that these items were used in relation to halbach. No prints, no dna, nothing. Avery, Janda, Tadych or Jodi's prints on these would make sense. I don't even see evidence that they tested for prints or dna. But I have to believe that if they found Brendan's or halbach's on those items, we'd know about it.


All that being said, I do think that if Steve Avery did do this, the motive would likely be sexually related.

But I don't see the cuffs and irons relevant UNLESS brendan mentioned them BEFORE police told them they existed. Which seems unlikely since the interviews are filled with the police throwing out things for him to hopefully repeat in an incriminating way.