Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[MysticJynx]

Mystic ~ any idea when that video was? I don't see these dated at all.... but the video you put up says "from his brothers house", the one I posted earlier says "Crivitz" (sp?)

I do not know what date. My guess is between Nov 5 and 9th. lol

 

[diesel]

Shortly in to this video he wipes his eyes and you can see his cut on the finger.
[video=youtube;RCH-NcTGmx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCH-NcTGmx4[/video]

Thanks. Would you have any idea when this video was done?

 

[missy1974]

I do not know what date. My guess is between Nov 5 and 9th. lol

LOL that would be my guess on the video I posted too... :laughing:

Was it Earl that didn't live there, could that have been the brothers house he was at? They weren't allowed back to the property IIRC
He appears to be wearing the same coat... maybe even the same shirt, but that doesn't mean anything LOL

 

[missy1974]

the one that I posted shows it aired on November 7th.
posted under the video: This video was aired 11/7/2005

 

[MysticJynx]

The cops started by trying to trace TH's path that day and who she met with. They employed a local pilot to do searches for her vehicle in case she had gotten in an accident (that's in testimony).

The assertion that LE and others immediately pointed at Steve Avery without thinking anything else is not what was testified to. At first TH's friends thought she might have gotten in an accident. LE thought the same might have happened and those first searches were following that possibility.

I do not think you can even understand what I am saying. If someone else could explain it better please try. All I can say is the same thing over to you.
THIS IS THE REPORT FROM NOV 3 2005, by MW. So on NOV 3 when they get word shes missing they head out to her residence to get statements, Another officer had already talked to Auto Trader and gave him what was first known about her appointments on Oct 31. This is the first the investigators are even going out there. Are you following, before they even find her car. this is just the missing person part of the investigation. All they knew so far were three names of three appointments that she had on Monday Oct 31 2005. NONE OF WHICH WERE STEVEN AVERY! They were C.Sip, B.Janda and G Zip. So before they even arrive at her property to take this missing persons report this is what they have. During the ride MW calls the C.Sippel at 5:55pm 11-3-05, What he learned was that it was Steven Schmitz who actually met with Teresa. So he calls Steven Schmitz at 6:00 Nov 3 2005. What he learns first from SS is that TH did call that day at 1:10 he thought, and that she was to be there between 1:30 and 1:45pm the day of Oct 31 2005.

ARRIVAL at the home of TH on NOV 3 2005, Det. MW meets with the roommate SB, SB says he last saw TH at 2pm on Oct 30. The detectives talk to her parents too KH and TH. At this time he notes that some of Teresa's friends had arrived at the house.

STILL at this point the officers only have those 3 appointments and the extra name associated with C.Sip. Still no mention of Steve Avery for them to direct Sgt AC to go there right?

In Come the friends who hand them an already printed bill of TH's PHone records. These records are incomplete as it doesnt even listed the last call made from Avery that day on it. He states even in a phone call to Man Co Officer DR that her last call that day was 2:27. If you have followed this was not her last call that they were working with, because the phone record was incomplete. It only listed what 6 of her phone calls from that day. So again The police were working with incomplete records. What they had on that record from the friends was a call at 2:27 from Auto Trader, The 2:12 Call to GZ, The 12:51 call to SS and the 11:43 call to Barb Janda. Reverse directory would most likely have pointed that phone number to B. JANDA. Officers at that point would know that the calls they are reflecting on this day were the same appointments which she had from auto trader.

However they did not have B.Janda's name the name that was associated with that name was STEVEN AVERY. Who was the one who wrote the names next to the calls on the bill that was handed to the Detective. This person goofs. How can they know that B.Janda didnt meet her that day? how do they know it was steven avery. At this time what the police had in hand should have reflected that 11:43 call as B.Janda.

Then when detectives called up Manitwoc County, they should have been sending Sgt AC to G. Zip's and B. Jandas. But he sent the officer to Steven Avery's because on her bill given to him by her friends on NOV 3 placed him in her life as the call she made that morning at 11:43. She called B. Janda not Steve Avery. Had that bill reflected the truth it would have said B.Janda.

Det MW then mentions in his report he did not even know B. Janda was sister to Steve Avery till Sgt AC called him back about his visit to the property.

THE FRIEND WHO PRINTED THE BILL WHO PUT STEVEN AVERY AS THAT CALL FOR 11:43 gave false information to the police since the first day she was reported missing. Not only did it reflect a call that should have another persons name. They purposely left off the REAL last two calls she had that day. The one at 2:41pm, And the SA call at 4:35pm. I would think when you are giving information to an officer about your missing friend you would want to provide all the information they came across. Not this friend this friend gave that bill over to police knowing there was 2 last calls that day not on there. Also the call she got every hour from an unknown to us number was not reflected in his version of the bill he gave to detectives on 11/3/05. It also is never addressed by the state for some reason.

I guess the point is. That this friend makes the connection of Steven Avery being B. Janda before the police even did, was he following her that day?


Well now I'm just rambling thoughts again. all Just my opinion of course.

 

[Tawny]

In every investigation I've ever followed, they start searching for a missing person at the last place they were seen. They start looking for murder suspects by scrutinizing the last person who saw the victim and then scrutinizing those closest to the victim, especially any exes who are still around. That's not a new process, most people are murdered by people who know them.

It's perfectly acceptable to have investigation SA. But the fact that they didn't bother to investigate her ex boyfriend who was allupinthesh** and was the last closely known friend/associate to see her alive is unacceptable.

 

[Tawny]

The location she went is Avery's Auto Salvage. Didn't Steve Avery call from his own phone (*67) and give the Janda name and phone number?

The friend might have made some connection between B Janda's phone number on the call report obtained online and the location of B Janda/S Avery. Like doing a Google Search on the number. Or maybe not. Either way, evidence of TH making a photo visit to the Avery Salvage Yard existed.

So, are you trying to allege that RH murdered TH and then framed Steve Avery? Besides this phone call report that makes you suspicious of RH, what evidence is there to suggest this suspicion. Is there anything besides imagination?

How would there be evidence when the police never investigated that as a lead????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[GigiG]

Good point, but considering what SA did on a daily basis, I wouldn't expect him not to also have wounds.

True as to SA's work, but what kind of work did RH do? Did he ever explain those wounds/injuries to his hands?

 

[missy1974]

True as to SA's work, but what kind of work did RH do? Did he ever explain those wounds/injuries to his hands?

After reading what I have read in the last month or so... my educated guess would be .... NO!

he was unemployed, just finished nursing school, living at home. We don't know what his alibi was because LE never asked him.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

This is something that bothers me about RH never being looked into... For all we know there's MOUNDS of evidence but because they zeroed in on SA right away, we don't know. There could have been bloody clothes at RH's, or TH's full set of keys at his house, or TH's dna (blood) found at RH's. He's had ten years to get rid of information or evidence if he was involved.

We know RH gave the phone records with SA's name to authorities.
We know RH pointed Pam Sturm to the RAV4 on SA's property and made sure she had a camera (Scott's).
We know he can't even remember what time of day he stopped over and saw TH last on 10/30/05.
We know someone was harassing/annoying TH with phone calls leading up to her death.

 

[dexter75]

EXACTLY!

We don't know much about anything or ANYONE else it seems.

Kind of interested in Auto Trader (who was working there at the time) if I am allowed to ask that?
If not, I apologize.

 

[dexter75]

Falling asleep,

To clarify

What do we know about the person who took the info at Auto Trader?

Also, the rest of the Employees? Seems I read something about a supervisor maybe having a " crush " on TH ( a theory someone threw out there at one time )

 

[dexter75]

As I have read more and more here on this site

Not all of this evidence, was reliable and clearly shows SA was NOT the only suspect.

Let's not forget the timing of when all of this evidence just happened to be found.
I know. I know. ( It all went perfectly with the timing of the investigation. )
I'm sure it did.
I'm sure for the entire county, the timing couldn't have been more perfect.

IMO

Ahem, Culhane

Missing phone records

Inconsistent testimony from many including but not limited to, LAW ENFORCEMENT.
Evidence found led to ( depending on Kratz's narrative, which burn pit you stumbled across first, or how hard you shook the night stand )

Burn Barrel ( Janda's )
SA Burn pit
SA night stand/floor
RAV4 6 places? right? Plus Sweat/Skin DNA right?

Etc Etc

A few items off the top of my head.

Evidence that could have led to RH or any other suspect:

- DNA of Blood/hair in the SUV

- Eye witnesses who mentioned seeing someone on the Avery property, someone who did not belong there.

- Other friends or family of TH who might have known if she and RH were fighting or if there was trouble between them.

- Any witness (eye or ear) seeing or hearing a struggle between TH and RH, not on the Avery yard.

- Phone calls between TH and whoever else that day


That's just a few items off the top of my head.

Where did the evidence that was found lead?

 

[missy1974]

People can be convinced they committed a non-existant crime in just 3 hours

http://www.sciencealert.com/people-...tted-a-non-existant-crime-in-just-three-hours

An interesting article.

 

[Safeguard]

I did read that SA claimed to have cut his hand loading a flat bed truck with tin sheeting. He was at the cabin in Crivirtz, putting tin roofing in a chicken coop the day they found TH's car.
Here the article about it,( It's long, covers the whole case), toward the end he talks about his cut and how, "it bled like a stuck pig".

**I misinterpreted someone's question as being about SA'a wound... ( they were inquiring about RH. Sorry. But the article is still worth a read imo.
http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/

 

[Amber29]

After all my reading I truly feel SA is guilty. I just don't buy into the whole conspiracy. I honestly feel SA committed this murder and had it in his head that he was "untouchable" at that moment because what all he was involved in with the wrongful conviction. I think he thought there was no way he would be looked at as a suspect at that time. He was having that bill named after him and meeting the representatives of his state and such. I think he's a bit of a sociopath, this is all IMO.

I do have a question for those who feel he's innocent.
Who do you think committed the murder? Someone else or the police?
If someone else...Were they just lucky enough that the police wanted to frame SA for their crime?
Or do you feel that the killer did some or all the framing?
If so how did they get all that evidence planted?

Or do you think the police murdered TH and framed SA?
Again..how did they get all that evidence planted?
And how did they know this woman had an appointment with SA that day and he would be the last person who saw her alive?

 

[missy1974]

I don't know if he is innocent, I also don't think it was proven he was guilty, but I will answer some of the questions you asked Amber, as best I can ;-)

Who do you think committed the murder? Someone else or the police? I don't know who did it.

If someone else...Were they just lucky enough that the police wanted to frame SA for their crime? It may be luck! I think it's possible that someone else did do it, SA relative, maybe someone not related to SA. I also think it's very possible that LE truly believed he was capable and guilty so dropped a key, a bullet and a few drops of blood here and there to make sure he would get convicted and have it stick this time (remember some of these LE officers still could not even admit that he did not commit the rape even after his exoneration)

Or do you feel that the killer did some or all the framing? I think if it was someone else, if they had details on the 3rd that she was at SA's, they had time to plant whatever they could between the 3rd and the morning of the 5th when the SUV was found... actually no, the search started earlier, so I would say they had to be there before sunrise.

If so how did they get all that evidence planted? I really don't think it would be hard to put the SUV where it was, there were backroads into the Salvage yard that did not go by any buildings. I'm going to just assume.... the Avery/Dassey's do sleep at night. The license plates were in a vehicle near the edge as far as I can tell by testimony, fence close by. The bones could have been moved there, as shown by testimony, there were bones in 2 other places. If the blood was planted, the only way I can think it could get there is from that vial that was kept in the scotch taped box with the evidence seal broken (make sure the *advertiser censored* gets put away, right?) The key... shake my head.... see the Key thread LOL the bullet fragment with trace DNA.... how convenient for them to find that months later, good thing Lenk was on duty that day

Or do you think the police murdered TH and framed SA? I have not come up with any theory that supports LE killing her; however, from some of the reading I have done (not here), seriously, nothing would surprise me now.

Again..how did they get all that evidence planted? See above

And how did they know this woman had an appointment with SA that day and he would be the last person who saw her alive? She was not reported missing until the 3rd. Colborn talked to SA that evening, if it was someone, not in his family, they may have known or had an idea by that evening. If it was someone close to her, say uhmm a friend, it's possible they talked and it was mentioned sometime during the day, or maybe someone that actually seen the fax that AutoTrader sent over with the details. If it was someone in SA's family.... if she never left that property, and it wasn't SA, then that person would know that it could be said that SA was the last one to have contact with her. Or .... if it was someone just random, if they see her leaving the property and she makes no other stops and you kill her, the last person to see her would have been SA. Also, it was on the news November 3rd, with SA being interviewed on the 4th. If I was the killer, and my name wasn't Steven Avery, if I woke up on the 4th and heard the news and seen that her last stop might have been SA's and I happened to be hiding the SUV and her remains.... damn right I would try to plant that evidence on his property!


Not everyone that is here questioning the evidence thinks he is innocent. I think it's more about questioning the process and the investigation. And if that process and investigation creates doubt, then yes, I think the above questions needed to be asked, doesn't mean "the doubters" have the answers. ;-)

 

[BigCityAccountant]

And how did they know this woman had an appointment with SA that day and he would be the last person who saw her alive?

That is a good question...who DID know she had an appointment with SA that day. I don't recall anyone ever testifying about what time Auto Trader called TH and left her the message about the new appointments. Does anyone know?

Also, while we are on the subject of suspicious people--what about her partner at the Photography Studio? I wonder if he was ever checked out? Not that I don't think SA is guilty--but I think it could be plausible that TH had talked to him on the 31st and he lied. But LE would know that answer. I wonder who TH called or received calls from prior to noon...and at 1:52 pm.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I don't know if he is innocent, I also don't think it was proven he was guilty, but I will answer some of the questions you asked Amber, as best I can ;-)

Who do you think committed the murder? Someone else or the police? I don't know who did it.

If someone else...Were they just lucky enough that the police wanted to frame SA for their crime? It may be luck! I think it's possible that someone else did do it, SA relative, maybe someone not related to SA. I also think it's very possible that LE truly believed he was capable and guilty so dropped a key, a bullet and a few drops of blood here and there to make sure he would get convicted and have it stick this time (remember some of these LE officers still could not even admit that he did not commit the rape even after his exoneration)

Or do you feel that the killer did some or all the framing? I think if it was someone else, if they had details on the 3rd that she was at SA's, they had time to plant whatever they could between the 3rd and the morning of the 5th when the SUV was found... actually no, the search started earlier, so I would say they had to be there before sunrise.

If so how did they get all that evidence planted? I really don't think it would be hard to put the SUV where it was, there were backroads into the Salvage yard that did not go by any buildings. I'm going to just assume.... the Avery/Dassey's do sleep at night. The license plates were in a vehicle near the edge as far as I can tell by testimony, fence close by. The bones could have been moved there, as shown by testimony, there were bones in 2 other places. If the blood was planted, the only way I can think it could get there is from that vial that was kept in the scotch taped box with the evidence seal broken (make sure the *advertiser censored* gets put away, right?) The key... shake my head.... see the Key thread LOL the bullet fragment with trace DNA.... how convenient for them to find that months later, good thing Lenk was on duty that day

Or do you think the police murdered TH and framed SA? I have not come up with any theory that supports LE killing her; however, from some of the reading I have done (not here), seriously, nothing would surprise me now.

Again..how did they get all that evidence planted? See above

And how did they know this woman had an appointment with SA that day and he would be the last person who saw her alive? She was not reported missing until the 3rd. Colborn talked to SA that evening, if it was someone, not in his family, they may have known or had an idea by that evening. If it was someone close to her, say uhmm a friend, it's possible they talked and it was mentioned sometime during the day, or maybe someone that actually seen the fax that AutoTrader sent over with the details. If it was someone in SA's family.... if she never left that property, and it wasn't SA, then that person would know that it could be said that SA was the last one to have contact with her. Or .... if it was someone just random, if they see her leaving the property and she makes no other stops and you kill her, the last person to see her would have been SA. Also, it was on the news November 3rd, with SA being interviewed on the 4th. If I was the killer, and my name wasn't Steven Avery, if I woke up on the 4th and heard the news and seen that her last stop might have been SA's and I happened to be hiding the SUV and her remains.... damn right I would try to plant that evidence on his property!


Not everyone that is here questioning the evidence thinks he is innocent. I think it's more about questioning the process and the investigation. And if that process and investigation creates doubt, then yes, I think the above questions needed to be asked, doesn't mean "the doubters" have the answers. ;-)

So someone goes sneaky around on the Avery property (potentially in the middle of the night) with a big german shepard---and the dog doesn't bark and wake everyone up or at least 1 person? That person who supposedly planted her bones is his fire pit--had to be less than 500 -100 feet from his house and his dog didn't wake up? I find that really hard to believe..Unless...it was someone the dog was familiar with--but--even then I think the dog would have barked...and in one of their interviews--they would have mentioned the dog barking--just like they did about seeing tail lights/lights.

 

[Soulmagent]

So someone goes sneaky around on the Avery property (potentially in the middle of the night) with a big german shepard---and the dog doesn't bark and wake everyone up or at least 1 person? That person who supposedly planted her bones is his fire pit--had to be less than 500 -100 feet from his house and his dog didn't wake up? I find that really hard to believe..Unless...it was someone the dog was familiar with--but--even then I think the dog would have barked...and in one of their interviews--they would have mentioned the dog barking--just like they did about seeing tail lights/lights.

I read they did leave certain officers on the property guarding it at night. Alone. Not the ones named but interesting none the less. Day 4 transcripts.