GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #14

[LookingHoping]

When the FBI gets involved in cases do they take the lead or just help alongside the local detectives? Do they withhold any information? Do the local detectives on the case share info with other officers or do they keep it secret? Does anyone know how it works?

Here is my theory about the sketch, all JMO.

Abby mentioned to LE that the guy was called Kibby and she described things about him like guns, politics, survivalist training, hunting, lived in NH, etc. If she mentioned this then maybe it simply was not shared with the police who gave Kibby his gun back.

IMO the detectives took the name and other info from Abby and did their OWN Internet sleuthing, similar to what we did here, and they discovered a guy called Kibby (or at least that was his online username n forums and such) who had the exact same interests as NK. They found images of this man online among all of his many forum posts and they copied his features and made their OWN sketch.

This 'other Kibby' had a very extensive online presence and AFAIK NK has zero online presence. They then jumped the gun and thought they had the right guy, when in fact it was just a crazy coincidence.

IMO I think Abby saw the sketch and questioned it because it was clearly not a sketch of NK. Maybe then she convinced them that they were sleuthing the wrong guy and in that 48 hours time they realized, oops! wrong Kibby!

Wait, help, not sure if I'm reading into your wording incorrectly… are you saying you think they are expending all of these resources to search NEK's property, head to court, etc. and they realize that it is possibly the wrong kibby?

 

[SStarr33]

When the FBI gets involved in cases do they take the lead or just help alongside the local detectives? Do they withhold any information? Do the local detectives on the case share info with other officers or do they keep it secret? Does anyone know how it works?

Here is my theory about the sketch, all JMO.

Abby mentioned to LE that the guy was called Kibby and she described things about him like guns, politics, survivalist training, hunting, lived in NH, etc. If she mentioned this then maybe it simply was not shared with the police who gave Kibby his gun back.

IMO the detectives took the name and other info from Abby and did their OWN Internet sleuthing, similar to what we did here, and they discovered a guy called Kibby (or at least that was his online username n forums and such) who had the exact same interests as NK. They found images of this man online among all of his many forum posts and they copied his features and made their OWN sketch.

This 'other Kibby' had a very extensive online presence and AFAIK NK has zero online presence. They then jumped the gun and thought they had the right guy, when in fact it was just a crazy coincidence.

IMO I think Abby saw the sketch and questioned it because it was clearly not a sketch of NK. Maybe then she convinced them that they were sleuthing the wrong guy and in that 48 hours time they realized, oops! wrong Kibby!

OMG, I will laugh so hard if you are right. You might have nailed it. In fact, I wonder if NKs attorney has seen that photo.

 

[bakerlady]

Wait, help, not sure if I'm reading into your wording incorrectly… are you saying you think they are expending all of these resources to search NEK's property, head to court, etc. and they realize that it is possibly the wrong kibby?

No I think it's the right Kibby now but the sketch they released was the 'other Kibby' that just happens to have the exact same interests as NK and lives in NH.

I don't think Abby sat with someone and provided physical characteristics for a sketch. I think they googled and found a photo and used that.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I looked it up and no for Castro, yes for the creep that took JC Dugard

Thanks! So we still need a legal eagle to explain the false imprisonment issue...(why for one case and not the other?).

 

[Linda7NJ]

The thing I cannot get over is that he has not been charged with any sort of sex crime.

Yet...there is plenty of time to add charges, he's going nowhere.

 

[Fireweed]

Yeah but why not? It makes no sense to me.

 

[bakerlady]

Yeah but why not? It makes no sense to me.

They can't charge him if she doesn't talk about it unless they find physical evidence of a sexual offense. Maybe he never raped her or maybe he did and she doesn't want to talk about it.

 

[LookingHoping]

No I think it's the right Kibby now but the sketch they released was the 'other Kibby' that just happens to have the exact same interests as NK and lives in NH.

I don't think Abby sat with someone and provided physical characteristics for a sketch. I think they googled and found a photo and used that.

TY! I figured I had what you said wrong… off to bed goes this useless mind!

 

[SStarr33]

No I think it's the right Kibby now but the sketch they released was the 'other Kibby' that just happens to have the exact same interests as NK and lives in NH.

I don't think Abby sat with someone and provided physical characteristics for a sketch. I think they googled and found a photo and used that.

Wait. This says abby gave the info for the sketch:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/investigators-release-sketch-in-abigail-hernandez-case/

Plus she said this:

Abigail described the man as having darkish skin, dark brown eyes, black stubble facial hair, and a large build, who was slightly overweight and slightly taller than she was (5’4&#8221.

Something is fishy.

 

[Fireweed]

They can't charge him if she doesn't talk about it unless they find physical evidence of a sexual offense. Maybe he never raped her or maybe he did and she doesn't want to talk about it.

Fair enough. It just strikes me as very odd. To me anyway, it would go to the heart of why he abducted her. I cannot really fathom another reason why a man would abduct and keep a teenage girl if not for that reason.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

This is not unusually after following so many cases. It has only been a few days. The initial charge was enough to keep him behind bars. That is the most important thing. There will be more to come. imo! The fact that they had enough evidence to show the prosecution to hold him and set a $1,000,000 bond speaks volumes.

 

[Dixie811]

I don't have the link, but I remember it was stated that Abigail spent something like 3 1/2 hours with a sketch artist.

 

[SStarr33]

This is not unusually after following so many cases. It has only been a few days. The initial charge was enough to keep him behind bars. That is the most important thing. There will be more to come. imo! The fact that they had enough evidence to show the prosecution to hold him and set a $1,000,000 bond speaks volumes.

The defense attorney did not debate the bond because he had no idea what the evidence is. He said that it would be re-visited at the PCH

 

[Not Without Peril]

I'm no lawyer, but it's my guess because it concerns keeping a minor from her parents--that changes it to 'kidnapping.'

In New Hampshire, "[o]ne commits the crime of kidnapping 'if he knowingly confines another under his control with a purpose to: . . . [c]ommit an offense against h[er].'" (citations omitted). State vs. Casanova, N.H. Supreme Ct., No.2011-570, slip op. at 3 (February 13, 2013).

 

[bakerlady]

Wait. This says abby gave the info for the sketch:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/investigators-release-sketch-in-abigail-hernandez-case/

Plus she said this:

Abigail described the man as having darkish skin, dark brown eyes, black stubble facial hair, and a large build, who was slightly overweight and slightly taller than she was (5’4&#8221.

Something is fishy.

I think the public was misled in that respect. IMO they were so confident they had the right guy that they ran with it AS IF it was the guy she was talking about.

Imagine there are two men named John Shammalammadingdong living in NH with the same exact hobbies, baking cookies, sunbathing, and knitting. One John has a heavy online presence, posts to the knitting forum, has cookie recipes on Pinterest, photos of him laying on the beach on his FB profile, and the other John has zero online presence whatsoever.

Let's say some girl named Betty was raped and she didn't want to talk about what he looked like because it was traumatizing for her to think of his evil face. So she said, "His name is John Shammalammading dong and he likes cookies, sunbathing, and knitting and he lives in NH now leave me alone please because I am traumatized and don't want to talk anymore".

So LE says OK and then they start frantically searching for John Shammalammadingdong online (naturally this is the best place to start looking these days). They find a guy that fits the description to a T, 100%, this MUST be the guy! Oh look he has pictures all over FB, so since this must be him lets make a sketch using these FB photos as reference, it's got to be him right?! WRONG

There are actually 2 people in NH named John Shammalammadingdong that are nuts about knitting and they picked the wrong one.

 

[Fireweed]

In New Hampshire, "[o]ne commits the crime of kidnapping 'if he knowingly confines another under his control with a purpose to: . . . [c]ommit an offense against h[er].'" (citations omitted). State vs. Casanova, N.H. Supreme Ct., No.2011-570, slip op. at 3 (February 13, 2013).

From that definition, it would seem that kidnapping would pretty much always be in conjunction with another charge.

I should add, assuming that the kidnapper carried out his purpose.

 

[bakerlady]

I don't have the link, but I remember it was stated that Abigail spent something like 3 1/2 hours with a sketch artist.

I remember reading that too but I have my doubts about statements made to the public as often times they are not true.

If my first theory is wrong, then perhaps they do have the wrong Kibby right now and the guy in the sketch is still out there, when he should be in jail.

NK is 9 inches taller than Abby, he has BIG blue eyes, a long face, and appears clean shaven in every photo, including past mug shots, also his hair line is different and he is not slightly overweight at all.

So either they had the wrong sketch or they have the wrong Kibby in jail right now.

OR the sketch artist is just really really bad.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

What is the big deal about the sketch not looking like the perp to people that didn't live through this? Have any of you ever had to sit in front of a sketch artist after trauma? Are all sketch artists equally qualified? The details will come out in time, but there is one thing that isn't going to change and that is the fact that she is 14/15 years old and he is 30 something. She is a minor child and he is a adult. He was very aware of her age and the fact that there was a search going on for 9 months. He did not turn her over to her family or law enforcement during this time period. Read the statute for the state. I doubt he had her there to bake cookies for him every day, so I am sure there will be more charges filed. Right now, all that matters is he is held behind bars and the prosecution is doing their best to protect her at by holding the details for as long as possible, while they continue to conduct the investigation.

 

[Not Without Peril]

Fair enough. It just strikes me as very odd. To me anyway, it would go to the heart of why he abducted her. I cannot really fathom another reason why a man would abduct and keep a teenage girl if not for that reason.

To convict Kibby, New Hampshire must prove that Kibby intended to commit an offense against Hernandez when he confined her. See Casanova, supra. Your point is a good one.

 

[Not Without Peril]

From that definition, it would seem that kidnapping would pretty much always be in conjunction with another charge.

I should add, assuming that the kidnapper carried out his purpose.

Interestingly, the Casanova case addresses that issue (whether the intended offense is a lesser included offense of kidnapping). As you have suggested, since a kidnapper may fail to carry out his purpose, the intended offense is not considered a lesser included offense.