NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 1

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hydemi said:
So I wonder if,

1) you do believe the contractor sighting around 8pm the night of 2/9 was a for-real sighting of Maura?

Yes, based on the Rausches account of the call to the boyfriend's cell phone in which Maura sounded in distress, I THINK it is very likely that the contractor's sighting is for real.



2) that she got a ride afterwards either from an abductor or otherwise such that she survived that night and was the caller to Lt Rausch on Wed am?

Maura would have to have survived the night of 2/9 and 2/10 to have placed the call to the boyfriend on the very early morning of 2/11. So, yes, I believe she survived and that she was abducted the night of 2/9. If she had had access to a phone before 2/11, it is my opinion that she would have called the boyfriend then.



3) that the NHSP have some details and evidence as yet unrevealed which could alter our views of Maura's fate quite radically?

I have no idea of any type of evidence that may be unrevealed which could alter our views. Based on Lt. Scarinza's lack of cooperation with the media and the obvious shoddy investigation, my gut tells me that IF they had evidence that supported their theory of run away that IT would have already been revealed to the public. Yes, I know that Lt. Scarinza has been interviewed on Chronicle and for a few newspaper articles, has spoken at one or two press conferences and prepared the press release for the meeting with VT SP regarding Brianna and Maura. However, I do not believe that he has been quoted since the search in July. In fact, I know that numerous articles and some tv reports have specifically stated that NH SP had not returned their calls. In fact, on The Montel Show, there was some type of disclaimer in the show about NH SP being contacted for their side of the story, but refusing to reply.



4) that there was something else bothering or upsetting her which she intended to tell her Dad about at 3am Sunday morning when she damaged his car, that she intended to tell Lt Rausch about on Monday?

I have no idea if something was bothering Maura when she chose to not stay at her dorm room on 2/7 and drive to her dad's motel.......I have unsuccessfully been trying to find an article about the boyfriend talking with her after the first accident.....can't seem to locate it; maybe it was on tv or I have it wrong. But, we know that her Dad spent all day with her on Sunday and I am pretty sure that in an interview with the boyfriend that I recall him saying he talked with her after the 2/7 accident.



More in line with your remarks about college kids needing a break and taking off for a while, there is a comment in the early media stories from one of Maura's friends (Sara, I think) that her favorite movie was "Bottle Rocket" which my college age son tells me is about kids escaping and running away from their "normal" lives but in a harmless funny slapstick way.

hydemi, I really don't see the connection to a "favorite movie" and Maura running away EVEN when the movie's subject is running away. We all know that Fantasy and Reality are not remotely connected. Two of my favorite movies when I was about Maura's age were 'Love Story' and 'Brian's Song'. Although both of them were about a lover dying, I certainly never wanted to die or to have my fiance die.

Maura is known to have a great sense of humor. While I have never seen the movie 'Bottle Rocket', I will take your son's assessment at face value. Seems to me that his sheer definition of the movie would fit Maura's personality profile.

Believe me when I say that as a parent I have no axe to grind here other than some hope that she may after all be alive--that would be the best outcome whatever the tonnage of words on these websites.
I think that grassyknoll2 says it best for me and perhaps for the Murrays and the Rausches: the desire for there to be a thorough and complete investigation into Maura's missing - not assumptions, not theories, just good ole, painstaking investigation. Just believe those that love her: "She did not runaway" and if they are wrong, prove it.

I want Maura alive - can't even begin to fanthom how much more so her family and loved ones hope for the best. But, reality, is what they are asking for LE to determine. And, it just doesn't seem to me to be debatable that NH LE refuses to acknowledge that it is REAL POSSIBILITY that there may be a criminal behind Maura's missing.
 
Originally Posted by Chavon

"This sounds like someone to me who was completely bent on escaping from yet another emotionally draining episode given her past history."


Do you know Maura? Just what does "given her past history" mean?
 
Dear Peabody,

Accepting as valid both the contractor sighting around 8pm of 2/9 and the phone call to Lt Rausch thirty six hours later on the am of 2/11 are extremely important details--they pretty much eliminate the hypothermia and/or suicide theories on the night of 2/9.

I believe the item you are remembering about the phone conversation of Lt Rausch with Maura during the day on 2/8 is best recounted in the Caledonian Record on 2/27/04 which you can look up but I will quote the relevant part here, as once again Mrs. Rausch is the source:

"Sharon Rausch said, 'it's obvious to us something has happened to distress her.'

She said Murray had called Bill Feb. 8 and was crying because of the previous Saturday accident (sic-3am Sunday morning), though he didn't feel that was it.

'He told her on a scale of 1 to 10, it was only a 3 or 4,' she said. 'He had to talk to her for a long time to calm her down. We are convinced something happened at school and her Amherst friends know.'"

Without the personal knowledge of Maura shared by family & friends, I too believe that "something happened at school" which was deeply distressing and upsetting to Maura, which she had been unable to communicate to anyone as of 2/8 or 2/9, which she may have been intending to communicate as she drove to Hadley in her Dad's new Toyota around 3am when that accident occurred and evidently afterwards she still could not mention the troubling thing either to her Dad on 2/8 or to Lt Rausch during this phone call on 2/8.

As her Amherst friends all say in the media articles, she was a girl who kept things very much to herself, not even telling her friend Sara Alfieri on 2/8 about the accident in the Toyota that had occurred after she left Sara's dorm room early in the wee hours Sunday morning.

If her Amherst friends know or knew what this was, it still has not been made public, and it now appears according to a post by Modi 1 on the mauramurray.com website that the U Mass police are not releasing further documents or info to Mr Murray--so finding out what happened to her at U Mass may be as hard as finding her in Northern New Hampshire until there is finally some new lead or a crack in this case.

We agree that a brand new investigation is needed, unless a heck of a lot more is happening behind the scenes with NHSP or U Mass police than we know or happened during 2004.
 
According to the Montel Website:

http://www.montelshow.com/show/upcoming.htm

His show 'Vanished' which features the stories of Maura Murray, Janis Stavros, Brooke Wilburger and Jason Jolkowski will re-air on Thursday March 24.



To find the channel and time of airing in your area go to

http://www.montelshow.com/misc/where_2_watch.htm



Let us all send an email to Montel's producers thanking them for their continued efforts on the behalf of these missing persons.

j_tuttle@montelshow.com

k_forman@montelshow.com


As Montel stated in the first airing of the show "Someone, somewhere knows something." Perhaps, one of the airings of this show will be the lightening rod that brings that "someone" forward.
 
The following information was posted March 29 on the Maura Murray website www.mauramurray.com – I find it most disturbing; if I was a citizen of NH or adjacent state, I know that I would be extremely alarmed, especially with all of the missing persons and unsolved murders.



‘From today's Springfield Republican newspaper: "Manchester, NH. - The list of convicted sexual offenders who live or work in New Hampshire currently has 3,092 names and is lengthening at a rate of about 8 percent per year, officials say." "The roster is expanding because offenders convicted years ago are added to it as they are released from prison, said Lt. Brian L. Hester, who has oversight of the register maintained by state police”. ‘


Do your math - At a rate of 8%, there will be over 240 additional sex offenders added this year! :doh:

 
I buy a caling card number 1234567, with a pin access number of 22222.

I want to phone a relative in California. I have to phone the access number 1-888-888-8888, this number is the Calling Card Central number.

So with my calling card in hand I call 1-888-888-8888, I punch in my card number 1234567 and my pin access number of 22222.

I am then authorized to make the call to California.

So yes, the originating number can be traced backwards. I am not sure through a landline, but I know through a cell phone it can. Most likely it can be used for a landline also.

The actual place that the calling card was bought cannot be traced.

That is why if a calling card is used by lets just say for example, the Red Cross, it can be investigated and verified by LE as to where the original call was placed from.

Please, we don't live in the dark ages anymore we are alive and well in the age of information technology.

If you place a call through a public telephone, it can be determined to an exact location.

In the 2003, census of New Hampshire the total population is 1,287,687, up from 1,235,786 in 2000. An increase of 51,901 in three years.

So if you take the total population(2003) of 1,287,687 and divide it by the total number of sex offenders(current and released from prison) by 3,092.

1,138 are registered as offences against children. 1,954 people are registered sex offenders against adults.

Therefore 1,284,595 people are not criminals with a registered sex offender background living in New Hampshire.

See how things change when you take into account all of the facts and not just selective facts.

The above quoted article was specifically referencing crimes against children in regards to Jessica(R.I.P.) in Florida.

Parents were checking to see where the sex offenders live in say, Manchester. They want to know who is living besides them and their children.

I really don't see how it applies to the case of Maura, she is not a minor child.

If you don't give the WHOLE picture of a situation you cannot make an accurate assessement of THE WHOLE picture.

You can say that 20 people were arrested on DUI charges last year up from 10. That is a 50% increase. Wow. Shocking. Appalling.

But the total population that figure was taken from was 1,000,000.

So now it is 20 people out of a population of 1,000,000 that were arrested for DUI. That means 999,880 were not arrested for DUI. That would be the whole picture, not just a 50% increase.
 
CyberLaw said:
I buy a caling card number 1234567, with a pin access number of 22222.

I want to phone a relative in California. I have to phone the access number 1-888-888-8888, this number is the Calling Card Central number.

So with my calling card in hand I call 1-888-888-8888, I punch in my card number 1234567 and my pin access number of 22222.

I am then authorized to make the call to California.

So yes, the originating number can be traced backwards. I am not sure through a landline, but I know through a cell phone it can. Most likely it can be used for a landline also.

The actual place that the calling card was bought cannot be traced.

That is why if a calling card is used by lets just say for example, the Red Cross, it can be investigated and verified by LE as to where the original call was placed from.

Please, we don't live in the dark ages anymore we are alive and well in the age of information technology.

If you place a call through a public telephone, it can be determined to an exact location.

Amazing...........wow..........
Cyberlaw,

It is a fact that you are MISTAKEN about this issue - No one, including LE, can trace a call placed through a prepaid calling card UNLESS one has the calling card number 1234567 and pin access number of 22222. Any prepaid call can be traced back to the land line owned by the prepaid calling card company, but this land line number is merely the number through which the call was routed, not the location from where the call originated. To determine the origin of the call, in other words, to determine the actual address from where the call originated, one must have the calling card number and pin number. This is what was being referring to on the Maura Murray website www.mauramurray.com when it was posted that the call could not be traced. Unfortunately, The Murray family does not have the prepaid calling card information necessary to trace the call - I am sure they have the number of the incoming call which was the number that the call was routed through. But, without the calling card number 1234567 and pin 22222, the routing number is a dead end other than telling them which company owned the callling card.

It is possible to trace a prepaid calling card call back to its company of origin through incoming cell or land line phone records. However, I repeat, it is not possible to determine the origin (physical location and address) of the calling card call UNLESS one has the calling card number and pin information. I suggest that you confirm this with any informed and educated law enforcement agency.

You are CORRECT that if the American Red Cross was using a prepaid calling card, LE, or anyone such as the Murrays, could obtain this infomation for a trace to determine if the call that the boyfriend recieved originated with them. I feel confident that since the family was told it was ARC, that this is something they followed up on. After learning that LE never checked on Maura's cell phone calls, I would be shocked if the family leaves any stone unturned.

I will leave this internet search up to you; but I know that I read somewhere that the boyfriend's mother confirmed that the call did not come from ARC....hopefully, that information was not in the numerous posts that were deleted from this site, and you will be able to confirm this to your satisfaction.

And yes, you are also CORRECT that any call from a payphone can be traced back to it's origin. But, I am left wondering why you would think that there is a possibility that a call could not be traced through a land line, but definitely through a cell phone? A payphone is a landline! :confused:
 
Please note the following:

While he was at the airport waiting to catch a flight out of Oklahoma, Rausch said he received a call on his cell phone in which all he heard was someone breathing. The call, he said, was traced to a calling card.

Note it says calling card, not pre-paid calling card.

Again:

Family members and friends also are upset with no information coming from someone who placed a calling card call to Bill Rausch's cell phone as he was waiting to fly out of Oklahoma Feb. 11 to come search for his girlfriend.

However, Scarinza said that angle has been eliminated because investigators traced the calling card to the American Red Cross officials who had been attempting to contact Bill Rausch.

So again, investigators can trace a calling card associated with a particular organization, it is not a pre-paid calling card .

So please note the difference between a calling card registered to a particular organization like the Red Cross and a pre-paid calling card.

In all of the newspaper articles, it quotes a calling card. A calling card is billed, it is not pre-paid.

Organizations issue calling cards to employees and can verify a)who has a particular card b)all of the details of where the call originated from.

You are CORRECT that if the American Red Cross was using a prepaid calling card, LE, or anyone such as the Murrays, could obtain this infomation for a trace to determine if the call that the boyfriend recieved originated with them.

Tell me how on earth would people with no legal authority, legal resources or likewise determine who has a particular calling card within a large organization like the Red Cross. LE could, the Murray's could not.

All LE has to do is trace back wards from Point B to Point A to determine what card was used to place the call.

So the confustion being that it was not a pre-paid calling card, but a calling card that was issued to an employee within the Red Cross Organization.

I have a calling card for my home phone that I use if I make a Long Distance call when I am not home.

I don't have to pay full rate, I pay for my call on the road as if I was at home using my long distance plan.

I don't know of any company that does not issue calling cards to mobile employees, especially within a large organization like the Red Cross.

So I sure would like to know how the Murray's determined that the call did not come from the Red Cross, I really would like to know that. Especially when they would have no details of the number of cards, who has said cards, how many employees and what the originating number was, as the number would only be listed on a cell phone bill as incoming, not a specific number. It is not like the Murray's can trace phone numbers and calling cards. Not a chance.

So again LE has the investigative resources to determine who made the call the Murray's don't.

That is why I very much doubt the "Murray story....again."
 
CyberLaw said:
Please note the following:

While he was at the airport waiting to catch a flight out of Oklahoma, Rausch said he received a call on his cell phone in which all he heard was someone breathing. The call, he said, was traced to a calling card.

Note it says calling card, not pre-paid calling card.

Again:

Family members and friends also are upset with no information coming from someone who placed a calling card call to Bill Rausch's cell phone as he was waiting to fly out of Oklahoma Feb. 11 to come search for his girlfriend.

However, Scarinza said that angle has been eliminated because investigators traced the calling card to the American Red Cross officials who had been attempting to contact Bill Rausch.

So again, investigators can trace a calling card associated with a particular organization, it is not a pre-paid calling card .

So please note the difference between a calling card registered to a particular organization like the Red Cross and a pre-paid calling card.

In all of the newspaper articles, it quotes a calling card. A calling card is billed, it is not pre-paid.

Organizations issue calling cards to employees and can verify a)who has a particular card b)all of the details of where the call originated from.

You are CORRECT that if the American Red Cross was using a prepaid calling card, LE, or anyone such as the Murrays, could obtain this infomation for a trace to determine if the call that the boyfriend recieved originated with them.

Tell me how on earth would people with no legal authority, legal resources or likewise determine who has a particular calling card within a large organization like the Red Cross. LE could, the Murray's could not.

All LE has to do is trace back wards from Point B to Point A to determine what card was used to place the call.

So the confustion being that it was not a pre-paid calling card, but a calling card that was issued to an employee within the Red Cross Organization.

I have a calling card for my home phone that I use if I make a Long Distance call when I am not home.

I don't have to pay full rate, I pay for my call on the road as if I was at home using my long distance plan.

I don't know of any company that does not issue calling cards to mobile employees, especially within a large organization like the Red Cross.

So I sure would like to know how the Murray's determined that the call did not come from the Red Cross, I really would like to know that. Especially when they would have no details of the number of cards, who has said cards, how many employees and what the originating number was, as the number would only be listed on a cell phone bill as incoming, not a specific number. It is not like the Murray's can trace phone numbers and calling cards. Not a chance.

So again LE has the investigative resources to determine who made the call the Murray's don't.

That is why I very much doubt the "Murray story....again."
I am going by what Sharon Rausch, the mother of the boyfriend wrote and is copied below; she specifically states that they knew it was a pre-paid calling card AND that the American Red Cross NEVER had her son's cell phone number or the need to speak to him, and that they never called him later.

You may "doubt the Murray story", but I choose to believe the people who are involved, in this case, specifically Mrs. Rausch - it is very possible that the boyfriend and LE chose to leave off the adjective "pre-paid"......I don't think too many people make that differientation on calling cards or on pre-paid cell phones, they just simply say calling cards or cell phones:

information below is copied with permission from the moderator at www.mauramurray.com:

"From the press accounts and interviews, Lt. Rausch received a cell call and voice msg on Wed morn 2/11/04 while going thru the metal detector at the Okla City airport on his way back to Boston from Ft Sill.

By the time he turned on his phone again there was a message without any verbal content but sounds of breathing, sniffing, crying?

He was quoted as saying he felt sure it was Maura.

Even in November Mrs. Rausch says the same when commenting on the failure of police to follow up Maura's cellphone call to Mrs Salamone and the condos in Bartlett on the afternoon of 2/9.

Both my son and I believe that the sounds on the call were made by Maura


The press stories quote Det. Scarinza as saying the call was traced to a calling card number belonging to the American Red Cross. Later he says to an American Red Cross official.

So the calling card number became a dead end.

Yet the family (Mrs Rausch?) states that they have not been able to verify this, or talk to any ARC person who made this phone call to Lt Rausch.

It is not true that we have been unable to verify this: we were told on Wednesday 2/11 evening in the Haverhill Police Station by NH SP Det. Todd Landry that the call came from The American Red Cross. I disputed that information at the time by saying that they had never been given my son's cell phone number. The American Red Cross was called late evening Tuesday 2/10 *after* we learned of Maura's missing. The purpose of the call was to aid us in procuring Emergency Leave for my son to go to NH to search for Maura. ARC took my contact information and my son's commanding officer's information. They did not ask for nor receive any personal information regarding him. They have never called him.

Upon my return to OH, numerous individuals and agencies offered their assistance to us. OH LE was given the prepaid calling card number. After 2 weeks of extensive research, both OH LE and a private investagator told me that unless I had the acutal calling card information: the numbers that are entered when making the call plus the name of the merchant: ie ATT, US Postmaster, Walmart, etc, that THERE IS NO WAY TO TRACE THE LOCATION FROM WHICH A CALL IS MADE FROM A PREPAID CALLING CARD; that the number that shows up on caller ID is simply one of hundreds of thousands of numbers purchased by various calling card companies.....I was actually told that because these calls cannot be traced, criminals know to use them to be protected from prosecution.....Fred Murray used other resources to confirm this information. Therefore, we have another example of misinformation from NH SP.



Given the poor record of followup on at least the cell call to Mrs Salamone from Maura's phone (a joint cell account with Lt Rausch?), I have a few questions which may have already been answered.
Again I realize these rocks may already have been turned over.

1) How would the ARC or an ARC person have Lt Rausch's cell number?

They did not have it - please see my earlier remarks in this post.

2) Do both Lt Rausch and Mrs Rausch or other family members still believe that this message & noises recorded could have been Maura?

I certainly fear that it was Maura.


3) Did the cell carrier (could they?) actually trace the physical location of the call, not just the calling card number of the ARC?
as mentioned in the earlier remarks in this post, it is not possible to trace the physical location of a prepaid calling card without all of the information printed on the calling card


4) Has the voice message been saved, recorded, studied by another investigative person than the NHSP?

Yes, by OH LE and a PI. The message was deleted by my son when we learned it could not be traced. In order to save any message, his cell phone service requires listening to it every 10 days. He chose to delete the blood chilling message rather than being repeatedly exposed to the agony of hearing what he believes to be Maura and at a loss to help her.
I know this was a mistake, but he is young and felt that saving the message was of no benefit.


5) Maura was a nursing student at the UMass School of Nursing. Would she have interned or had ARC instruction, guide info, emergency card, or any knowledge of a freebie calling card number for public use?

I had given Maura several prepaid callling cards in November prior to her disappearance. She also knew her father's prepaid calling information. We are certain that she did not have any calling card with a connection to the ARC. Even if she had, one must understand that we did not have the information needed to trace a prepaid calling card.

ARC provides free disaster and emergency service, being donor supported, unlike the Coast Guard who sends you a bill if you get lost off the coast in your powerboat.

This item was at least a hint that Maura might have been alive two days later, if she was the source of the call and somehow using the ARC number--although evidently unable to speak or leave a verbal message?

Why wouldn't the ARC person have left a verbal message?

Hydemi, we think alike. Your question about ARC leaving a message is exactly one of the questions that I asked of NH SP that Wednesday evening.........along with "Why have they not called back?"




Thanks to you all for your interest in Maura's case and especially for your prayers.


~Sharon Rausch
"Our help is from the Lord, who created heaven and earth." Psalm 24:8
 
CyberLaw said:
See how things change when you take into account all of the facts and not just selective facts.


The above quoted article was specifically referencing crimes against children in regards to Jessica(R.I.P.) in Florida.
I appears, that the article above got picked up by that paper (through AP, perhaps) from the Manchester Union Leader...there are several excerpts from this article as well as a link on the "Missing Sex Offenders" thread here on Websleuths. There are also articles from the Patriot Ledger on MA sex offenders and WCAX on the VT issues. In the full article, Jessica was certainly mentioned, but the way I read the article, it was talking about the problems inherent in tracking all sex offenders
Manchester Union Leader 3/26/05
Sexual offender list here growing
By Sunday News Staff

The list of convicted sexual offenders who reside or work in New Hampshire currently has 3,092 names and is lengthening at a rate of about 8 percent a year, according to Lt. Brian L. Hester, who has oversight of the register maintained by the state police.
The roster is expanding, Hester said, because offenders convicted years ago are added to it as they are released from prison, and because offenders relocate to New Hampshire from other states or reside in neighboring states but work here.
About two-thirds of the sexual offenders committed crimes against adults and the information about them in the register is restricted to law enforcement use, but the register also includes 1,138 people convicted of sexual crimes against children. Their identities are available to the public.


So why the heck was this misleading information posted on the website for Maura Murray when the articles are specificly aimed at parents of young children.

Again.........misleading, again, and again by this family in regards to Maura. Like I am soooooooo shocked.......not.
Do you know that a family member posted this information on Maura Murray's site?? It appears to me that perhaps the person who posted believes that something happened to Maura. Regardless, the article presented the statistics that you believe are misleading...not the poster and not the Murrays...and you're right, perhaps they should have mentioned the overall population to give readers a better idea of the situation.

I am going to ask a very dangerous question here: But do you now see what I am talking about with regards to information provided by the "family".

If you don't give the WHOLE picture of a situation you cannot make an accurate assessement of THE WHOLE picture.
I agree that if you don't give the WHOLE pictue of a situation you cannot make an accurate assment of THE WHOLE pictue...I also agree, as I believe I have in the past, that the same statistics can show very different pictures depending on how they are stated. I found the articles on the "Missing Sexual Offenders" thread interesting and a bit unnerving. When I was looking for the article on Maura's site, I saw another article that says that there 11 "registered" sex offenders in Haverhill, NH...sadly, more sex offenders in that Town than there are police officers when they are at full compliment which it appears they weren't in January of 2004. "Chief Williams said he is presently up to six officers hired but there are only four working presently."...."Major incidents in 2003 included 31 felony cases sent to the County Attorneys office; there are 11 registered sex offenders living in our Town, 18 inactive files." ...... "Haverhill is not a sleepy, quiet, little town anymore. There are bad people going through this town, there is a lot of crime. It is not so much a population increase, it is the nature of the population; there are a lot of transient people that live in this town that bring crime with them and you know this, you’ve seen the statistics." There is much more discussed in this article which will give you a sense of what LE faces in this Town. I don't know what the cost of living is in NH, but they sure do seem underpaid and given the staffing levels they must be working a lot of overtime. They also appear to be hampered by inadequate radio equipment. You can read this on www.mauramurray.com or at the following link: http://www.town.haverhill.nh.us/Budget%20Advisory%20Minutes/11904-townbudget.html

 
CyberLaw...I, too, don't understand your negativity towards the Murray family. You seem to have access to a lot of information which the rest of the forum members don't. It would be great if you could use your knowledge and energy to help find Maura. If you think that she wanted to disappear, and you know how desperately her family is trying to find her, why not try to find her yourself. Family members are ill and are grieving; Maura isn't aware of any illness. If you could locate her, and confirm that you won't tell anyone where she is, then relay the message of a family illness, perhaps she would consider contacting them. If you're not willing to help, I don't understand why you bother continuing to read and to post. You're the only negative person in the forum. I don't see the point. If you really believe that Maura disappeared on her own, then why let this forum take up your time? Just say, OK, she left because she wanted to, the family doesn't accept that, and I don't care. Let it be. Perhaps you can help another family with their loss.
 
I too had previously questioned CyberLaw's tactics and motivations regarding negative posts. I don't know where CyberLaw is getting all this info-but I previously wondered if CyberLaw had a much deeper connection(like LE) than he/she is owning up to(just cause you're supposedly in Canada don't necessarily make it so!). And it would be great if that intellect was put to use trying to locate Maura instead of SLAMMING the Murray and Rausch families for their supposed shortcomings!
 
I guess cyberlaw will never explain why he is so hostile towards this discussion.

Can someone confirm for me ( because the original posts were deleted) Did he (Cyber) say at one point in his life he packed up & took off & started a new life?

Thanks,
Pugsley
 
pugsley said:
I guess cyberlaw will never explain why he is so hostile towards this discussion.

Can someone confirm for me ( because the original posts were deleted) Did he (Cyber) say at one point in his life he packed up & took off & started a new life?

Thanks,
Pugsley
Pugsley,

I cannot confirm that Cyberlaw was a runaway, but in a post under Maura's thread he did state that he ran away. He referred to controlling parents as a reason and cited controlling parents and boyfriend as Maura's reason.

I have already acknowledged that I know people who have known Maura since she was a child. They assure me that Maura's parents and boyfriend are not controlling types of individuals. Yet I recall Cyberlaw posting that Maura ranway to get away from these controlling people.

Perhaps there is someone who has saved all of the postings regarding Maura and would be willing to copy his post about him running away.

I remain steadfast that Cyberlaw must have a reason (other than his differing opinion of what has happened to Maura) for being so negative towards Maura's plight that he refuses to consider the posibility of foul play in her missing.

While I personally have a strong belief that something has happened to Maura, I hope against hope that I am wrong and that she is safe......I just cannot understand anyone (i.e. Cyberlaw) who does not admit to a personal connection to Maura but remains certain that she has forsaken every single person she knew to start a new life. Just doesn't make sense to me. :doh:
 
Thanks Peabody.

I think I have a hunch as to why he is so bitter. But wanted to be sure I wasn't confusing him with someone else.

I don't think Maura ran away either. There were too many important things she left behind in the car. I also think she was trying to avoid being busted for DWI, which is why she might have taken the alcohol with her.

As far as controlling parents, I don't see it. Her father seems quite the opposite. And if your boyfriends controlling, you say buh-bye! Besides, she was complaining she didn't see him enough, I thought I read.

Pugsley
 
With the millions upon tens of millions of dollars that the USA spends on Homeland Security every year, does it make sense that the fatal flaw in this entire “security” machine would be pre-paid calling cards. Any terrorist organization could use any card and avoid the tracing or detection thereof.

That the “bad guys” would use pre-paid calling cards knowing that the Government or “Homeland” security would be unable to track them at all.

That criminals and criminal organization would specifically use pre-paid calling cards to their advantage. That would be a huge “hole” in security and LE.

Kind of defeats the millions of dollars spent on security and leave Homeland Security futile.

From: //www.manishin.com/pressdocs/RCRwirelssNews033103.html

How are U.S. officials responding to surveillance obstacles posed by pay-as-you-go mobile phones, prepaid cards and other modern packaging of wireless access that gives terrorists and criminals virtually anonymity?

In some cases, industry support is critical.

Howard Segermark, head of the International Prepaid Communications Association, has worked with law enforcement since the 2001 terrorist attacks to educate agents. "We can help law enforcement if they don't know the name of a prepaid company," said Segermark. From there, law enforcement can acquire call detail records.

LE has the means, techniques, methods, technology and training to trace pre-paid phone cards.

They also have the co-operation of the entire pre-paid communication network.

Please note the following course is ONLY one of many resources available to people involved in LE.

The tracing of pre-paid calling card by people other than LE would be illegal.

It is specifically for LE and restricted to such.

www.telestrategies.com/leatraining/lea_webinar.cfm?Course=LEA3

The detection and identification of calls made with a prepaid card can be done using the methods covered in the webinar. This webinar will focus on all the ways prepaid cards are used by targets of investigation and discuss specific procedures to identify if a card is being used and how to reliably obtain call information from calls made on the card. Specific analytical techniques are covered using Microsoft Excel spreadsheets. Properly applied, these methods ensure that virtually no prepaid card calls can be lost to a determined investigator.

That is why I fully believe (rightly so) when LE traced the call from the Red Cross to the BF, it did so with the means, resources, technology and training available only to LE.

That is why when an average person off the street, says: But a person cannot trace pre-paid calls, they would be speaking as an "average person".

They do not have the sophistication and knowledge of a person who works within LE.

How did the Murray's determine that it was not one person within the entire Red Cross that called the BF.

The Murray’s would not have the resources to track down everyone and speak to them and asked them if they called.

They might have only spoken to one person whom they were in contact with, this one particular person did not call them, so they ASSUMED no one within the entire Red Cross did.

Call display would take care of any problem with the cell phone number.

When I think of contact information, the first thing would be “how do we relay a message to you, how would we get in "contact" with you.

Well call me on my cell phone, I will be travelling to NH.

That would be the purpose of a cell phone to reach you when you are mobile.

Just because the BF claims that he did not give his cell phone number to the Red Cross does not mean that no one did, or that this “contact” information was not relayed to others.

Or would he just tell them that he would call them ”while he is searching for Maura, but for them not to contact him and leave no number where he can be reached."

No it does not make sense. Especially when he is arranging emergency leave from his military position.

So when the BF states “that the call was from Maura”, there was a voice message, but now there is not, I find that very suspicious.

He was at the airport on his way to meet with the family and LE to “search” for Maura.

Would he not have given this “evidence” to LE at the first opportunity, like when he arrived in NH.

It would have been evidence to support his position.

But “unfortunately” he deleted information that could have helped him and supported his position that it was Maura calling.

I wonder why.........


Guess what….. any person working within LE would look at this with a raised eye-brow and a skeptical look on their face.
It is just an unsubstantiated claim, a story, without any evidence.

But of course that does not fit in with the “story” put forth by the “family” that LE is to blame for everything.

That they are not doing their jobs have bungled the investigation, etc.

All we have is the BF “belief” that the call was from Maura with no supporting evidence.

The belief could be "wishful" thinking that Maura called him, that she is in trouble, not that she choose to runaway from both him and the "family".

All the BF had to do was save the voice mail, he did not even have to listen to it again, just inform LE of its existence.

If there was a problem with the voice mail, they could contact the cell phone service provider.

So again this man has military training, college educated, and he deletes info that could help LE .

Nothing like working against the people who are trying to help you, then calling them incompetent and liars.

The Red Cross has pre-paid calling cards that are specific to their organization and can be identified as such.

So again, I look at "situations" with fact, not claims, stories, but facts, with common sense based in reality.

I again find the information “supplied” by this family as not truthful and factual.

Theyseem to only put forth information that supports their "story".

That the BF deleted the call because he could not “stand” to listen to it again, that he just “knows that the call cannot be traced therefore he deleted it. Does not make sense.........heck he only had to listen to it one time. Saved it. Informed LE. End of story.

BTW I am in no way shape or form involved in LE.


An adult as a self -actualization person can "leave" on their own accord to do whatever they want with their life.

They are now the adult-child of their parents. Adult being the opertive word.

They not under the care, supervision and control of Mom and Dad.

Unfortunately, some parents and family members do not like this.

They still try to control their adult children and make decisions for them.

They still see their 18+ year old "child" as a child. Not the adult which they are.

The adult can make any decision they want in regards to their own adult life.

It is up to the adult to decide what they want to do for their own well being, notwithstanding what the 'family" feels they should or should not do.

That means if you want to ditch your family, friends and co-workers to start a new life. No one can stop you and you are free to make that CHOICE for yourself.

That means that if you never ever want to contact your family again(except by your own choice) you are free to do so in a free society.

Hopefully your family will not "track and hunt" you down because they feel that you should not have ditched them, that you should not have made the choice to leave them, not contact them and speak to them.

Heck if that was the case, you would not have left anyways without informing your "family" where you are.

Sort of defeats the purpose of "running away" does it not.

If we lived in a perfect world, with perfect families, perfect people, perfect jobs, perfect co-workers, perfect children, perfect Mothers, perfect personalities, perfect character, perfect Fathers, perfect siblings, perfect credit, perfect boyfriends, perfect girlfriends, then adult children would not "ditch" their parents and families and jobs to "start a new life on their own terms."

Again it is the choice of the adult to do what they feel is in the best interest of their life.

Also there is a significant amount of research that adult parents "ditch" their adult children and families.

So yes, in a free society people can CHOOSE to "ditch" whomever they want to.

Sometimes people just needs a 'break" from their "loved" ones.

If that break is one week, one year or 10 years, it is still the decision of the adult to determine the time frame.

The adult child has no legal obligation to inform their "loved ones" where they are, unless the adult child so chooses.

Some 800K adults each year in the USA make this choice.

They are in control of their own life and make their own decisions.

Sometimes they feel they are left no choice but to "runaway" from their "loved ones" for the sake of their own life and well being.
 
If you do your research, you will learn that the boyfriend INFORMED the FBI and the NH SP of the phone call AS SOON as he received it.

If you also take the time to research, you will find that the boyfriend did not erase the message until MONTHS AFTER the call was received. It is my understanding that once his family and the Murray family confirmed the call could not be traced, he deleted the message. Granted, this was not a wise thing to do.

What you say about a "hole" in security makes sense, but I called my own county sheriff. His office said that this is an issue because criminals are indeed using prepaid calling cards to make calls during the commission of criminal activity.

I suggest that anyone reading this do the same: call your local LE and inquire if they can trace a call from a prepaid calling card WITHOUT the calling card number or pin number.

IF you are told it can be done, please ask how and forward the information to the email address at www.mauramurray.com

It would be a wonderful thing to be able to confirm or rule out that Maura made the mystery call.
 
You know Cyberlaw I agree with you to a point...sometimes people DO just want to pick up and move on with their lives without their family...BUT, and that's a big BUT...I think we have a duty to make sure that isn't the case when people are missing. If everyone took that attitude would anyone every look for missing adults?
 
Cyberlaw, What is it exactly about this case that makes you jump all over it pointing out the reasons why it's so clear to you that she walked away? I mean, really there are tons of cases that have circumstances as unclear as Maura's and yet I don't see you looking all over the forum to find those people's cases and comment about how they too must have just walked. So, what is it? Why Maura's case?
 
to explain how the tracking dogs traced Maura's scent to Bruce Atwood's property and then LOST it when by Bruce's own statement to LE Maura WOULD NOT GO WITH HIM(he states she stayed with the car to await AAA) and he supposedly never got into Maura's vehicle. If you have enough of someone's scent on you for dogs to track it then you would need to have more than a passing contact with that individual-you would either need to be in contact with something they owned(like sitting in their car) OR be CARRYING something of theirs like a coat, blanket, etc. Is there anyone out there familiar enough with tracking dogs to explain how this could be? I am studying Forensic Biology and it doesn't seem possible under the scenario that Bruce Atwood gave to LE!
 
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