NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 2

[murraydwyer]

While I respect the amount of time and thought you have put into thinking about Maura's case (especially after reading of your own family trials), I strongly disagree with your conclusions...although, I can only hope that they are accurate.

I can't and won't speak for Maura...I don't know her, I don't know what might have upset her beyond her pressing schedule and the accident with her dad's car, and I don't know how her mind might have worked in a given situation.

Although I was a bit more daring at Maura's age (aren't we all), I can't imagine that, if I were planning on starting a new life, I would have done some of the things you assume Maura did. Her car hadn't been working well, why not just leave it in the lot at school, buy a ticket to one place and then go to another at another bus depot. Amherst is a University town...the University provides bus service to the town and other areas where buses are available to many places. Abandoning the car whether she had an accident or not is the one thing that would have hastened the contact with her father, putting him on notice that something was off...it was registered in his name. Regardless of where it was abandoned, it would have been noticed within a few days.

I don't know what Maura's financial arrangements were in terms of scholarship and what that scholarship paid for or how much her family helped, but I do have an idea of what campus jobs at UMass pay....not much...and I do not believe Maura was working full time even with two jobs. I seriously doubt that she was able to 'squirrel' away much money. According to your scenario, she would probably have needed quite a bit of money...especially if she were buying a new car, attempting to establish a new identity...police can and presumably have checked her social security earnings....her license was not renewed, her credit cards have not been used. She has no degree to fall back on, not even a high school diploma. You can't even open a bank account without an id these days, so if she had opened another bank account, there would be a record.

As a woman, I find your scenario very difficult to fathom. Having taken time off to raise children (even with part time jobs in between), I am well aware of how difficult it is to make a living wage. Her background includes some nursing skills and chemical engineering...but what types of jobs are there in those fields that wouldn't require some kind of background check.

Lastly, her father who is one of the people who knows her far better than any of us, still goes to NH to try to find out what happened to Maura...is he being negative in his belief that something happened to Maura or realistic?

 

[docwho3]

While I respect the amount of time and thought you have put into thinking about Maura's case (especially after reading of your own family trials), I strongly disagree with your conclusions...although, I can only hope that they are accurate.

I too hope that I am right because I also hope this can be resolved to Maura's happiness and that of her family. However, know this:I will try to help dig up any and all evidence that will help, even if that evidence totally trashes my own current impressions of the case.

I can't and won't speak for Maura...I don't know her, I don't know what might have upset her beyond her pressing schedule and the accident with her dad's car, and I don't know how her mind might have worked in a given situation.

I don't think being upset is the cause and I don't think the family should feel that they are in any way to blame either. I think this is a condition that built up as a sort of a compulsive type thing that left her no choice at that time. I think it might be very important to know what sort of things happen in such cases and what things might be done in public or published to somehow reach her. That would need the consultation of a specialist to help her family take the steps most likely to lead to Maura coming home. The problem is that I am unsure which specialist psychiatrist would have expertise in this area. I do know that adult runaways happen and that there are probably doctors that have had to deal with those cases. Possibly the FBI might have trained people that could advise or help profile and give pointers on what to do. (I am somewhat ignorant of what exactly the FBI would be willing to do for the family in a sort of consultant role as long as it did not intrude upon local L.E. toes. . .so I am only guessing on the FBI help angle.)

Her car hadn't been working well, why not just leave it in the lot at school, buy a ticket to one place and then go to another at another bus depot.

If her goal was to make people think she had only taken off for a few days to regroup then leaving the car at the school would only raise red flags to everyone. She had to move the car to buy her more time. Having it found at the place where a staged goodbye scene was set up would also be more mysterious,more baffling and would be a touch more artistic. I get the impression that Maura was a very creative artistic person in some ways although I don't know if she often demonstrated it to others.
I think I remember reading a poem she wrote (not 100% sure it was hers- I read so much stuff) and I think any poetry writer is an artist in the soul and that artistic side will show in little ways from time to time. Poet or not Maura seems to have a touch of art in this plan.

. . .Abandoning the car whether she had an accident or not is the one thing that would have hastened the contact with her father, putting him on notice that something was off...it was registered in his name. Regardless of where it was abandoned, it would have been noticed within a few days.

I think I just explained (above) why the car was meant to be left at the site of her staged goodbye. Yes, it would have been noticed in only a few days (probably either she or her helper would have tipped it to L.E. from a payphone by then) but I think thats all the time she needed. If you have a new life all set up and only need a few hours to gather your belongings and then drive to that place a few days is more than enough time.

Another note about why not to keep the car & just drive off with it: Maura would have soon been found since everyone would have been on the lookout for that car. Leaving the old car was important. Why not use a bus? People see you buy tickets and you might be recorded on a security camera buying a ticket. And what young person would dream of starting off in a sparkling new
life in a bus anyway? Ask lots of young people (from 20 to 23 yrs old) if they had a choice of having their own wheels or riding a bus everywhere and see how few actually choose the bus.

I don't know what Maura's financial arrangements were in terms of scholarship and what that scholarship paid for or how much her family helped, but I do have an idea of what campus jobs at UMass pay....not much...and I do not believe Maura was working full time even with two jobs. I seriously doubt that she was able to 'squirrel' away much money. According to your scenario, she would probably have needed quite a bit of money...especially if she were buying a new car, attempting to establish a new identity...

Ok you are right, neither of us know how much her family gave her. Thats ok.
But you just said a few things in that same paragraph that I think are somewhat in error and which I will attempt to correct. (Please do not be offended as I am only trying to help by saying that.) You said " I seriously doubt that she was able to 'squirrel' away much money." But neither of us knows how long she had been saving up for this fantasy of hers to become reality. It might be wrong to assume she only began saving when she got work at college. My female cousins managed to save enough to buy a used car by the time they got to college age so it is not impossible to think Maura could also have save over a long period of time. It does not take all that much money to buy a used car if you aren't too picky.
Also I think in a previous post I mentioned that she might have even sold her jewelry if needbe or signed up with a job that paid some sort of sign-on-bonus. As to degrees needed:Last time I looked you could go online and buy a degree or two or three.

You also said: "According to your scenario, she would probably have needed quite a bit of money...especially if she were buying a new car, attempting to establish a new identity..."

Establishing a new identity isn't all that expensive. I did a simple websearch on it and found their are 2 main simple ways to do it. 1.You can just start using a new name or you can go to court and get a court order, usually for under $50 according to the info I read. It might take longer to mess with getting new ss# and birth certs issued but I hear thats not all that tough either. It might take a little time if done before college age but but at college age I would think in a college town it wouldnt take all that long. I am sure there are others who know more than I in this area and maybe one of them will post.

. . .police can and presumably have checked her social security earnings....her license was not renewed, her credit cards have not been used. She has no degree to fall back on, not even a high school diploma. You can't even open a bank account without an id these days, so if she had opened another bank account, there would be a record.

As I said above, a new identity isn't all that hard to get according to what I was able to read. I suppose how deep you go in creating the new you might add some time to the issue but I don't see it as being impossible for Maura to do. Once you have the new you the old ID stuff is probably no longer needed. Did the police check? Probably so and maybe they even found it out. I do not know except that according to the majority of msm reports I read they seemed to continue believe this was only a willful missing person case. But without knowing the new ID and SS# (if she got a new number) I don't know what they would turn up and so can not comment on that with any certainty.

. . .As a woman, I find your scenario very difficult to fathom. Having taken time off to raise children (even with part time jobs in between), I am well aware of how difficult it is to make a living wage. Her background includes some nursing skills and chemical engineering...but what types of jobs are there in those fields that wouldn't require some kind of background check.

Maura is single as far as we know, although marriage might be one quick way to get a new name, and so is only earning for herself not raising kids while working. The amount of college education she has had would enable her to do many jobs. She has probably had enough keyboarding to get an office job. And with her medical terminology, keyboarding (and she might even have possibly some medical coding skills) she could easily get a job in a medical records department without a background check. And I bet there are other office jobs she could get with just her generic keyboarding college skills.

. . .Lastly, her father who is one of the people who knows her far better than any of us, still goes to NH to try to find out what happened to Maura...is he being negative in his belief that something happened to Maura or realistic?

It is not hard to believe that if he loves his daughter and has spent lots of time with her he would have an almost impossible time trying to understand how his daughter could leave him out of her life as if she was being cruel to him. That probably does not fit with his knwledge of her. He should not feel badly about her as I don't think she was able to choose to not leave. I can't prove that and it is mostly speculation unless she comes forward to prove things one way or the other.
Her dad should also not blame himself as I do not think anyone could have prevented what happened.

When you feel that you are confronted with believing that either a loved one chooses to leave you out of her life or that she is dead I think it may often seem that dead is the only alternative that makes sense. I am proposing a third alternative:that she might not have had a real choice due to some sort of mental condition.

 

[murraydwyer]

In response to something said in an earlier post, while searching for something totally unrelated, I found this on two different sites:

Entering adults into the national database (NCIC), is also limited. A report may be taken and an investigator will be assigned to all cases, but there are specific criterion for NCIC. If the missing person has a physical handicap or mental disability, if they are missing involuntarily, if they are a victim of a catastrophe or if they are in some way endangered, then the person can be placed into NCIC.
Mesa, Arizona - Missing Persons
Friends and Families of Violent Crimes

At some point, Maura, in the New Hampshire State Police's opinion must have met the criterion: NCIC ID#: M-883793945 National Center for Missing Adults
They also went to her sisters house and took back all of the items from her car and impounded her car after it had been released.

 

[docwho3]

In response to something said in an earlier post, while searching for something totally unrelated, I found this on two different sites:

Entering adults into the national database (NCIC), is also limited. A report may be taken and an investigator will be assigned to all cases, but there are specific criterion for NCIC. If the missing person has a physical handicap or mental disability, if they are missing involuntarily, if they are a victim of a catastrophe or if they are in some way endangered, then the person can be placed into NCIC.
Mesa, Arizona - Missing Persons
Friends and Families of Violent Crimes

At some point, Maura, in the New Hampshire State Police's opinion must have met the criterion: NCIC ID#: M-883793945 National Center for Missing Adults
They also went to her sisters house and took back all of the items from her car and impounded her car after it had been released.

Thanks for the info.
Thats very interesting to know. Have they ever said to the family why they think she met the criteria?

 

[docwho3]

Why does the first picture at that site show her with what looks like blonde or blonde highlighted hair? http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401157S

Interesting.

 

[pugsley]

Why does the first picture at that site show her with what looks like blonde or blonde highlighted hair? http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401157S

Interesting.

Probably natural highlights from the sun. Or she could have had a suttle highlight done. I don't think she appears blonde. Why would that matter? Just curious.

By the way, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts on this. It was interesting to read a new angle.

Murraydwyer: Why would you say she did not have a high school diploma? Maybe it's early and I am misunderstanding you. You can't get into college without a H.S. diploma.

 

[murraydwyer]

I'm quite certain Maura does have a High School diploma, but the point I was trying to make is that, if ad DocWho suggests she had a new identity, she might be unable to produce a lot of back up info...like a high school diploma...making it more difficult to obtain a high-paying job.

I agree with you on the color of her hair. It could also be the lighting in the picture or the fact that it was summer and her hair might bleach out a bit. She definitely doesn't appear to be blonde...perhaps highlighted.

 

[docwho3]

Probably natural highlights from the sun. Or she could have had a suttle highlight done. I don't think she appears blonde. Why would that matter? Just curious.

I just found the hair color in that photo interesting for 2 small reasons. 1. It was the color I had half heartedly guessed at her using in a previous post. That blonde curl at the back of the neck looks all blonde to me even though the rest looks more like highlights. 2.Although they had other pictures with darker hair on that site they used one with blonde or blonde highlights as the one at the top of the page so it is the first pic that you see. I don't think that was accidental,in fact from a webpage design standpoint I know it was not accidental, having had training in that area. I think they must suspect she has a lighter hair color now. The lighter color caught my attention for those two small reasons. I suppose it really isn't critical to anything though.

. . . .By the way, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts on this. It was interesting to read a new angle. . . .

You are welcome. I just hope it helps.

 

[CyberLaw]

docwho3:

Awesome post, excellent, keep up the great postings.......your logic and common sense are impressive.

In previous post I took your position in this matter that Maura "escaped" to a new life. BUT, apparently that was not a popular position to take, it is nice to know that you are using similar logic and reasoning as I, in regards to Maura "missing".

Do you know her "parents" wrote her off for dead, just a few months after she "went missing". I find that unusual......still.

As to the second car - logic and reasoning prevails, but there is no evidence to date supporting this fact. So it is safe to make a logical conclusion(assumption). But you are reaching a conclusion that has no direct basis in fact. But from Maura's personality, I could see her doing this, as not to take the chance to be stranded, with no backup. So I do see your point, but I am taking a neutral positon in regards to the second car.


I don't think Maura was "malingering" when she received the call at the Security Desk. I think this call was a further "stressor" in her life that lead up to the day she went missing.

In just a few days: Maura 'broke down" at the security desk,(Thursday/5) went to a "small get together" on Saturday night(7), left the get together in the wee hours of Sunday morning(8), smashed her Dad's new car,(8) had to tell Dad that Sunday afternoon/evening about the car that had several K worth of damage(8). Then I am sure he was not pleased, (especially considering the time in the wee hours of the A.M. that this happened)and Maura made plans that evening to leave school, she was looking for map directions at midnight or so on Sunday(8). She left on Monday(9).

All of the events combined, in total lead one to beleive that she planned on leaving this "stressful" life and start a new one with less drama.

 

[pugsley]

I'm quite certain Maura does have a High School diploma, but the point I was trying to make is that, if ad DocWho suggests she had a new identity, she might be unable to produce a lot of back up info...like a high school diploma...making it more difficult to obtain a high-paying job.

I agree with you on the color of her hair. It could also be the lighting in the picture or the fact that it was summer and her hair might bleach out a bit. She definitely doesn't appear to be blonde...perhaps highlighted.

Thanks for clarifying, I understand now what you were trying to say.

 

[docwho3]

First, Thankyou for the kind words. You did indeed post that she had escaped to a new life. And as I read archived posts, it did also seem that there was some clashing of personalities at that time. It is very hard to communicate well with people and harder when concerned with a subject where views often differ.

As to the extra car I posted about: That's good. Its always best to keep an open mind about stuff. Since I think the plan was to leave the old car behind at the goodbye scene and yet also return to take her dorm room stuff with her I think she would need a way to transport that stuff to her new place. If her new place was to be only a short distance away then a friend might easily have tossed it all in a car or van and moved it for her but if she was moving far like to New Mexico or Texas then I see the dorm room stuff as being a problem to transport on a bus and yet she clearly packed the stuff to be moved.

As to the family reaction to her disappearance:I respect your intelligence and I will keep your thoughts in mind about it but at this point I don't yet see any reason to pursue that line. I think their attitude is even understandable. Although I am beginning to notice a few more things about this case that may help me have a better understanding of Maura and her family(None of that is sinister.) Mostly just stuff that gives an idea of the personality that goes with the name. Its just that I am outside looking in and also looking back in time, to some degree so those extra details help. A few of the people in this case are beginning to take color and form in my mind like a character in a book being written becomes more real as you write more. That may not be important to anyone other than myself but it helps me feel a bit more personal satisfaction.

Note to readers: I read in a forum on the Maura website that she had suddenly left another college before disappearing from this one. Does anyone have details about that? Did she disappear from family at that time also or what? Or is that something that in fact never happened? Any of the above answers is fine with me as I just want to learn the truth. Thanks.

docwho3:

Awesome post, excellent, keep up the great postings.......your logic and common sense are impressive.

In previous post I took your position in this matter that Maura "escaped" to a new life. BUT, apparently that was not a popular position to take, it is nice to know that you are using similar logic and reasoning as I, in regards to Maura "missing".

Do you know her "parents" wrote her off for dead, just a few months after she "went missing". I find that unusual......still.

As to the second car - logic and reasoning prevails, but there is no evidence to date supporting this fact. So it is safe to make a logical conclusion(assumption). But you are reaching a conclusion that has no direct basis in fact. But from Maura's personality, I could see her doing this, as not to take the chance to be stranded, with no backup. So I do see your point, but I am taking a neutral positon in regards to the second car.

I think after Maura smashed her Father's car after a "small campus" get together in the wee hours in the A.M., this was the weekend that he was in town to buy her a car, so after several K damage to his new car, I think any parents would "think" twice about their child's behaviour and choices in regards to a car accident(especially my new car), and I would maybe say:

So after smashing my car, do you really expect me to "reward" this behaviour by buying you or helping you buy a new car.

Especially if the person is a high achiever, track star etc.......and an adult

I would not be plesed, would be an understatement......

I don't think Maura was "malingering" when she received the call at the Security Desk. I think this call was a further "stressor" in her life that lead up to the day she went missing.

In just a few days: Maura 'broke down" at the security desk,(Thursday/5) went to a "small get together" on Saturday night(7), left the get together in the wee hours of Sunday morning(8), smashed her Dad's new car,(8) had to tell Dad that Sunday afternoon/evening about the car that had several K worth of damage(8). Then I am sure he was not pleased, (especially considering the time in the wee hours of the A.M. that this happened)and Maura made plans that evening to leave school, she was looking for map directions at midnight or so on Sunday(8). She left on Monday(9).

 

[hydemi]

Dear Doc,

Maura had attended West Point from fall 2001 (I believe) to middle of her sophomore year, majoring in chemical engineering, running on the track team.

Somehow she left over the winter in early 2003 and started in the nursing program at U Mass by Feb (?) 2003.

Somewhere online or in one of the early media reports after Maura was gone, her Dad talks about he worked out this switch of schools with her--which seems to have been fairly quickly.

I do not know for sure of any reason for her leaving West Point, and am not sure what year her boyfriend Lt Rausch graduated before he went to Fort Sill--perhaps 2003 that same year?

Her sisters Kathleen and Julie had gone to West Point, and Julie was still in the military service at the time of Maura's disappearance and may be today.

Hopefully Peabody or someone with more exact knowledge will pick up on this post and correct any errors in what I am saying.

 

[docwho3]

Dear Doc. . . . .

(I shortened the quoted material to save space since the original post is already close at hand. I hope you don't mind.)
Thank you for the info! I do hope more info is posted about that time.

 

[hockeysl]

I have been reading up on her case since the beginning. maybe this already came up. but if she got off at the Wells River Exit on 91 and she did presumably want a new life or need help.. 5 miles isn't all that far. and there is a truck stop in Wells River Vt, right off the exit. Did anyone talk with people that run that truck stop? See if they have any information?

Just wondering.

 

[docwho3]

to hydemi: Ok, I finally read 30 pages of posts in the maura murray case discussion thread.

 

[hydemi]

Good, as you can see most of the posters there believe Maura was picked up and harmed the night of 2/9/04 and that she is no longer alive.

And her quick disappearance from the accident site near the Weathered Barn in Swiftwater was a puzzler from the beginning and remains so.

If you click on the Member List, I think you will find it helpful to review when you can the various posts by Helena Murray and Sharon Rausch, the most active family members (Mrs. Rausch is the boyfriend's mother). Both fear the worst for Maura but try to hope for the best--that she is alive whatever may have happened.

And the recently constructed Case Info timeline started on Oct 15th and updated on Oct 22d is really a big plus in understanding details.

 

[docwho3]

Good, as you can see most of the posters there believe Maura was picked up and harmed the night of 2/9/04 and that she is no longer alive.

And her quick disappearance from the accident site near the Weathered Barn in Swiftwater was a puzzler from the beginning and remains so.

If you click on the Member List, I think you will find it helpful to review when you can the various posts by Helena Murray and Sharon Rausch, the most active family members (Mrs. Rausch is the boyfriend's mother). Both fear the worst for Maura but try to hope for the best--that she is alive whatever may have happened.

And the recently constructed Case Info timeline started on Oct 15th and updated on Oct 22d is really a big plus in understanding details.

Ok. . . . I am not sure I understand your point yet. Sorry, I can be dense too at times. Maybe you can explain it further.

As to most posting people not believing Maura is alive:Time will tell what the truth is. Other than hoping all is well with her and her family I don't care that more people vote her dead than vote her alive. It really isn't about me being right or them being right.

I feel I have done a small part to help by having put together what so far is the only theory I have seen that seems to tie up all the facts including some that were puzzling when looked at from any other angle. I think that part is correct until or unless I see evidence to the contrary. Alive? Dead? When the last little bit of the puzzle is unraveled and she is found we will know that answer and I hope it is an answer everyone can be happy with. I believe that I have solved the plan part of the great escape and that solution/theory sort of points to where to look for answers as to her destination.

I am a bit wary of ending up forever defending the same points without end.
I will keep looking in on the case & I hope to see it solved in a year or two.
And of course, in the meantime, if I think of anything else that is helpful I will certainly post it.

 

[docwho3]

I thought some people might want to read about a young lady that ran away at age 25 as the knowledge might give perspective to this case:


Adult runaways are on the rise
By MICHAEL HOFFMAN
Shukan Bunshun (Oct. 27)
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fd20051030tc.htm

. . . .That's what Yumiko had in mind when she ran away two years ago at age 25. This is her story, as Shukan Bunshun relates it:
Born in Kanazawa, Yumiko graduated from junior college and then, at her parents' suggestion, spent three years studying tea ceremony in Kyoto. A job with a first-class ryokan in Tokyo looked like the passport to a stable, comfortable life -- but she abruptly quit after a year and a half and went to Bangkok.
Born in Kanazawa, Yumiko graduated from junior college and then, at her parents' suggestion, spent three years studying tea ceremony in Kyoto. A job with a first-class ryokan in Tokyo looked like the passport to a stable, comfortable life -- but she abruptly quit after a year and a half and went to Bangkok.
"Bangkok was wonderful," she says. "I made friends, took drugs." A few weeks later she was back in Kanazawa, but she was no longer the same person.
"Up to that point I'd been a good child. I did everything my parents told me to do. Enough of that! Now I wanted to live!"
She left without a word and went to Tokyo, where she worked in a pub and didn't bother securing a fixed address. The pub's patrons put her up -- "utterly charmless guys you wouldn't dream of having sex with." Nor were they much interested in sex with her, apparently. "They seemed to think it was their business to take care of me; they lectured me about the life I was leading. When I couldn't stand it any more I'd leave and move in with someone else."
The various ups and downs that followed included an affair with a Tibetan man and a trip to India with him. Back in Japan, they broke up, and she drifted into "the water trade" -- the sex business. A year of that has left her tired of it. Even so, "I'm glad I left home," she declares defiantly. "All my mother has to say is, 'Be a good girl, come back, I'll give you money.' No way.". . . . .

 

[pugsley]

I am a bit wary of ending up forever defending the same points without end.I will keep looking in on the case & I hope to see it solved in a year or two.And of course, in the meantime, if I think of anything else that is helpful I will certainly post it.

docwho3,

I don't think you have to worry about defending your point of view. You have very nice M.B. manners and I see everyone treating your opinion with respect. It's when people ram their point of view down other people's throats, that you might find that occuring. Just my opinion based on observation of most of the popular threads.

 

[docwho3]

docwho3,

I don't think you have to worry about defending your point of view. You have very nice M.B. manners and I see everyone treating your opinion with respect. It's when people ram their point of view down other people's throats, that you might find that occuring. Just my opinion based on observation of most of the popular threads.

Yes, everyone has been very kind so far and I very much appreciate it. I did not mean to imply anyone was not being kind. I am, however, aware that as more people come to the forum and read some but not all of the previous posts they may well post questions or theory point challenges that have already been dealt with. I am wary of that turning into a repetitive nightmare and so I meant to sort of serve notice in general that I may not always answer posts that are of that nature. I just didn't want to seem rude if I failed to answer those posts.

I greatly appreciate everyone's kindness in reponding to my posts especially in those instances when I have not communicated well myself. You have all been patient with me. Thank you.