AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #5

[MissMalowe]

If the lady who claimed to see Dulce at the playground the Friday before she disappeared (3 days earlier) was indeed correct/not mistaken, would search dogs be able to distinguish paths in terms of Fri vs Mon? Or would there be some overlapping and therefore confusion?

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't think anybody believes the 2 children were in the 'infants' swings as they wouldn't be able to get into them. We have been trying to figure out where the 2 children might have been playing on the playground and how far they might been from Mom in the car. How far did Mom/and sister walk into the park before they found the 3 yo son? At this point I'm not sure we can reconstruct anything in terms of a timeline based on the shifting narrative.

If I remember correctly, the time Dulce went missing is about 4:20. They were at the icecream store around 4:00, drove to the park, the kids got out of the car, ran to the playground or the swings which was about 30-50 yards away, and Dulces mom realized she was not in sight within ten minutes.
Then she searched for about 30 or 40 minutes before calling 911. I think she also called her brother and asked him to bring their dog to help look for her.
During that time they probably asked the other witnesses there if they had seen her, and that's where the description of the two men and her "running" came from.
That's why she said during the first interview, "I don't know why she just ran away like that."
When police arrived and questioned the witnesses, many of them wandered off and the ones who stayed claimed they didn't see anything. It wasn't until they were all tracked down and questioned the next day that they gave LE more information.
We still don't know what they saw or what they said.
It seems like the only one who saw the man and the red van was the three year old brother.
I hope they had an investigator experienced with young children questioning him. They must have taken whatever he communicated to them seriously since they included the description in the Amber Alert.

Imo

 

[Kuyluc2764]

If I remember correctly, the time Dulce went missing is about 4:20. They were at the icecream store around 4:00, drove to the park, the kids got out of the car, ran to the playground or the swings which was about 30-50 yards away, and Dulces mom realized she was not in sight within ten minutes.
Then she searched for about 30 or 40 minutes before calling 911. I think she also called her brother and asked him to bring their dog to help look for her.
During that time they probably asked the other witnesses there if they had seen her, and that's where the description of the two men and her "running" came from.
That's why she said during the first interview, "I don't know why she just ran away like that."
When police arrived and questioned the witnesses, many of them wandered off and the ones who stayed claimed they didn't see anything. It wasn't until they were all tracked down and questioned the next day that they gave LE more information.
We still don't know what they saw or what they said.
It seems like the only one who saw the man and the red van was the three year old brother.
I hope they had an investigator experienced with young children questioning him. They must have taken whatever he communicated to them seriously since they included the description in the Amber Alert.

Imo

Noema, the mother, has said that the 3 year old is non verbal and was recently referred to a specialist to help with his speech. So it most definitely was not the 3 year old little brother. Per the police call, Noema kept mentioning "they", saying that "they" told her that she was "probably" taken by someone. She also mentioned people playing basketball so I think it is safe to assume that "they" are the people playing ball.

Just-released 911 call from mother of missing Dulce Alavez: ‘Somebody probably took her’

The youtube video is an interview with the mother. It is in between the 3 and 4 minute mark that she states that the 3 year old does not talk. She also states that he did not run back to the car. I know there is an actual article that goes into more detail but I am not finding it at the moment. Will post it when I do.

 

[MsBetsy]

Noema, the mother, has said that the 3 year old is non verbal and was recently referred to a specialist to help with his speech. So it most definitely was not the 3 year old little brother. Per the police call, Noema kept mentioning "they", saying that "they" told her that she was "probably" taken by someone. She also mentioned people playing basketball so I think it is safe to assume that "they" are the people playing ball.

Just-released 911 call from mother of missing Dulce Alavez: ‘Somebody probably took her’

The youtube video is an interview with the mother. It is in between the 3 and 4 minute mark that she states that the 3 year old does not talk. She also states that he did not run back to the car. I know there is an actual article that goes into more detail but I am not finding it at the moment. Will post it when I do.

Yes, but I thought LE stated that the description was given by the child.
We don't know what the other witnesses saw, but that the man waved Dulce on as if to say come over here, and the description of the van apparently came from the three year old. The only other child interviewed was on Saturday, long after the description was given. Imo

 

[Steelslady]

With a Bloodhound, once they imprint on the scent article, they are generally nose to the ground following a scent trail, once they find it. There may be a bit of time spent searching for the scent trail, but if the PLS is well noted, they pick up the trail rather quickly and follow it like a steam engine, huffing and puffing, pulling their handler behind them. There may have been a few stops and starts where other scent trails intersected Dulce's, but even a half hour scent trail in a line is a bit of a walk.

Thank you so much.

That is amazing. I see why now many think Dulce's in the park somewhere.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I’m lost with this post. Did I miss something?

Wrong thread. Lord have mercy...

 

[Steelslady]

Wrong thread. Lord have mercy...

I thought so. You gave me a much needed laugh today!

 

[Kuyluc2764]

Yes, but I thought LE stated that the description was given by the child.
We don't know what the other witnesses saw, but that the man waved Dulce on as if to say come over here, and the description of the van apparently came from the three year old. The only other child interviewed was on Saturday, long after the description was given. Imo

No, they have never stated the age of the witness. They have only said that it was "a child of tender years". When asked if it was the 3 year old the police would not say. I think that it was just an assumption since the 3 year old was with Dulce when it happened. JMO

What are 'tender age' shelters?

According to the article (please don't look at the political aspect of it) here in the US a child of tender years can be up to 13 years old. In Mexico, 5 years old.

What classifies a child as 'tender age'?
Border Patrol officials said children under 5 fall under the definition of "tender age."

Border Patrol chiefs in the field have generally referred to children "of less than 5 being tender age," Hastings said.

But according to an official from the Department of Health and Human Services, a "tender age" child can be up to 13 years old.

"We have specialized facilities that are devoted to providing care for children with special needs and tender age children as we define as under 13 would fall into that category," Steve Wagner, HHS Acting Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families told reporters Tuesday.

 

[Kuyluc2764]

As an afterthought, when asked why the amber alert didn't go out until almost 24 hours after the fact, the police stated that when they first interviewed the people at the park that day nobody knew anything nor saw anything. After getting images of the people there at the park through the body cams they were able to re-interview the same people and that is when the description came up. So an amber alert was then issued. I do not know how many of those people that were interviewed were children, they never say.

$25,000 Reward Offered for Girl, 5, Who May Have Been Abducted From New Jersey Playground

 

[cass523]

I looked for other swings and didn't see the 'big kids' swings you reference. The picture of the bucket swings was from the paper and is current. Were the other swings not in place yet due to the construction work? I didn't see any other 'big kids' swings? Do you have a current picture? Thanks

I found this photo of more swings at the park and caption:

"Dulce Maria Alavez, 5, went missing on Monday while playing near this playground at a Bridgeton park."

These swings are behind an orange construction fence.

Police searching for 5-year-old girl who went missing Monday night in Bridgeton park

 

[flowoftime]

Hi guys im the local who said he would take pics. Im sorry its not great quality. The playground is much closer than the pictures make it look from where she was parked. as youll see, some of the playground is obstructed but you can see most of it very clear from the car. hope it helps a little bit to see some perspective. I will say you can definitely see the playground from the basketball court. if you do not have your back turned. There is also no way anyone from the basketball court could see behind them buildings where she was said to have been taken.

Photo Album

 

[rosesfromangels]

THANK YOU Flowoftime! This is SO helpful!

 

[MsBetsy]

No, they have never stated the age of the witness. They have only said that it was "a child of tender years". When asked if it was the 3 year old the police would not say. I think that it was just an assumption since the 3 year old was with Dulce when it happened. JMO

What are 'tender age' shelters?

According to the article (please don't look at the political aspect of it) here in the US a child of tender years can be up to 13 years old. In Mexico, 5 years old.

What classifies a child as 'tender age'?
Border Patrol officials said children under 5 fall under the definition of "tender age."

Border Patrol chiefs in the field have generally referred to children "of less than 5 being tender age," Hastings said.

But according to an official from the Department of Health and Human Services, a "tender age" child can be up to 13 years old.

"We have specialized facilities that are devoted to providing care for children with special needs and tender age children as we define as under 13 would fall into that category," Steve Wagner, HHS Acting Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families told reporters Tuesday.

The 24 witnesses who were on or around the courts were adults.
The three year old brother said he saw the man waving at Dulce as if to say, "come over here."
So we know that he saw him, and that he pointed towards the buildings when his mom asked where she had gone.
The other child that was interviewed came forward on Saturday.
We don't know what he saw, but the description of the man and the van was given before that.
Dulce's little brother was able to communicate what he saw, as well as the other witnesses who were there. But the only one that we of who actually saw the man is the three year old brother. Imo

 

[rosesfromangels]

The three year old brother said he saw the man waving at Dulce as if to say, "come over here."

Respectfully snipped.
How on earth would he communicate all this if he is non verbal?

 

[katydid23]

Yes, but I thought LE stated that the description was given by the child.
We don't know what the other witnesses saw, but that the man waved Dulce on as if to say come over here, and the description of the van apparently came from the three year old. The only other child interviewed was on Saturday, long after the description was given. Imo

Are we sure the only other child interviewed was on Saturday? Couldn't there have been a young child at the park or at the Bball courts, who saw what was going on?

Sometimes teens have younger siblings to watch after school. There may have been a Basketball player with a younger sib, who was sitting around and watching the park, etc?

 

[MsBetsy]

Hi guys im the local who said he would take pics. Im sorry its not great quality. The playground is much closer than the pictures make it look from where she was parked. as youll see, some of the playground is obstructed but you can see most of it very clear from the car. hope it helps a little bit to see some perspective. I will say you can definitely see the playground from the basketball court. if you do not have your back turned. There is also no way anyone from the basketball court could see behind them buildings where she was said to have been taken.

Photo Album

Wow, thank you so much for doing that! I was hoping to see your pictures soon.

Another local mentioned that someone could be unseen if he was in between the buildings and the pictures with the tree in between the buildings shows that very well.

Someone could have been parked behind the buildings, had a perfect view of the playground, and lured Dulce away without being seen. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Are we sure the only other child interviewed was on Saturday? Couldn't there have been a young child at the park or at the Bball courts, who saw what was going on?

Sometimes teens have younger siblings to watch after school. There may have been a Basketball player with a younger sib, who was sitting around and watching the park, etc?

Maybe, but the only time they mentioned another child that was interviewed was when the three witnesses came forward on Saturday.
Many people wondered why the playground was so empty that day, but I'm sure it's possible that there were other kids there. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Respectfully snipped.
How on earth would he communicate all this if he is non verbal?

I don't know, but that's what was reported. The child pointed towards the secluded area towards the buildings when asked where his sister had gone, and communicated that he had waved his hand as if to say, come over here.
Maybe he used his own hand to imitate him. Imo

 

[flowoftime]

Wow, thank you so much for doing that! I was hoping to see your pictures soon.

Another local mentioned that someone could be unseen if he was in between the buildings and the pictures with the tree in between the buildings shows that very well.

Someone could have been parked behind the buildings, had a perfect view of the playground, and lured Dulce away without being seen. Imo

yes for sure , between the building is the perfect spot. than he could have just lured her and took off on his way down the road i pictured imo.

 

[MsBetsy]

yes for sure , between the building is the perfect spot. than he could have just lured her and took off on his way down the road i pictured imo.

Yes, and that fits with the three year old pointing in that direction.
That's really the only place I can imagine someone taking her and it not being noticed by anybody. He could have parked behind the buildings and taken off in the van without anyone noticing anything. Imo