NM NM - Luna Co., WhtMale UP8323, 30-50, chained to telephone pole, May'99

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by CarlK90245, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,939
    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    63
    DoeNetwork Case 1588UMNM http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1588umnm.html

    NamUs UP Case 8323 https://identifyus.org/cases/8323

    [​IMG]

    Unidentified White Male

    Found May 27, 1999, 1/4 mile west of Hwy 180 in Rural Luna County, NM

    Vital Statistics
    * Estimated age: 30 to 50 years old
    * Approximate Height: 5'8" (68 inches)
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown hair - brown w/grey facial hair - green surgical sutures noted internally in bilateral knees, healed externally
    * Dentals: Available but not yet entered
    * Clothing/Jewelry: tan denim jeans 'penny mac', white undershirt, white socks, greent-shirt, size large, blue denim pants, size 29x30, 'his' brand, 'nike' athletic shoes, size 11 1/2
    * DNA: Available, in CODIS

    Case History
    Electric company personnel were patrolling lines, when they came across the decedent chained to a telephone pole, that had been burned half way up the pole. There was a lighter found near the body. The chain was around the decedent's neck, with a padlock locking it in place. Possible identification, after speaking to local areas, where he could have visited, came up with a possible name of Rodney Jones.
     
  2. Loading...


  3. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,939
    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Jackie Wayne Urich looks like a good match.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/u/ulrich_jackie.html

    I don't see anything that would connect him from Eastern Oklahoma to Southwestern New Mexico. And his name is not Rodney Jones. There is also no mention of prior arm bone breaks or a prior nose break. But most everything else looks good.

    * His age (40) is right at midrange of the UID's estimate (30-50)
    * His height (5'6" to 5'10") is consistent to the UID's 5'8" estimate.
    * His beard is greying brown
    * His DLC (09-Jul-98) is reasonably close to the approximate date of death (i.e., approximately 6 months prior to the 27-May-99 date of discovery).
     
  4. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the oddest thing about the UID was that he had no fingers so I can only surmise his hands were cut off, presumably to prevent identification.

    possible criminal history w/fingerprints on file?
     
  5. tatertot

    tatertot Member

    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Webrocket, there's nothing listed under "amputations" in the NamUs report to suggest his hands were missing, so the lack of fingerprints may be due to the condition of the body after the fire and the passing of six months.

    Two weeks after Urich disappeared, a farmer helped a man (not Urich) and two women after their pickup hit a tree, not knowing the truck they'd wrecked was Urich's missing truck:

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080317_1_A1_spanc62151

    The two scenarios could potentially match up. I doubt anyone would have known the exact mileage on the truck before it and Urich went missing so the odometer reading probably wasn't much help in determining where the truck had been. In two weeks' time, the group could have traveled to NM, interacted with a few locals who would later remember Urich as "Rodney Jones" and then returned home without him.
     
  6. Shin Masamura

    Shin Masamura Him who is without syntax cast out the 1st pronoun

    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I really think this might be the guy! Great job!
     
  7. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    not sure this page will come through but under this UID's "Demographics" it states "one or both hands not recovered" and under the section "Fingerprints" it states "no tissue/fingers located":

    https://identifyus.org/cases/8323
     
  8. tatertot

    tatertot Member

    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    My bad! You're absolutely right, webrocket. I'm used to seeing any missing parts noted under "amputations."

    If this is a match, I suspect the murder took place at the telephone pole since the MP's truck showed no signs of violence when LE analyzed it.
     
  9. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I suppose this question applies to all the UIDs especially the males (sorry to get biased) but if my hunch is correct that this UID had a criminal history (hence the removal of the hands to prevent fingerprint identification), are we not potentially talking about a UID who was a fugitive?

    I do not know this answer, but are fugitives listed under the same missing persons databases we scour or are they just found in the various local jurisdictions (unless they are infamous fugitives)?

    the manner of this guy's death shows an extreme personal hatred and violence that someone would remove hands, chain him to a tree and then set the guy on fire. an ordinary chance killing would not involve all those unnecessary steps leading to death and destruction of the remains.

    I tend to think that the killer was a criminal cohort past or then present, of the deceased's.
     
  10. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

    Messages:
    12,690
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did anyone ever submit the possible match? I only ask because I was lookig at this guy n namus tonight and there are no rule outs listed.
     
  11. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    NamUs still doesn't list any rule outs. I wonder if Ronald Hackmaster from Sun City, AZ and Johnny Doyle from Los Angeles, CA have been looked at?

    r_hackmaster.jpeg
    Ronald Hackmaster
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/24113/34

    johnnydoyle.jpeg
    Johnny Doyle
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4463/32

    Re: Webrocket's question, I don't think that wanted persons are usually listed in the same databases as missing persons (although I have come across two or three wanted persons in NamUs); A lot of states and other jurisdictions have their own websites for wanted persons (I really wish that I could locate one for California, but so far I haven't been able to). It would be nice [IMO] if wanted people were included with missing persons because it seems their lifestyle may cause them to end up deceased in an unfamiliar jurisdiction without ID.
     
  12. Shin Masamura

    Shin Masamura Him who is without syntax cast out the 1st pronoun

    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I found a few, a bit disorganized..
    https://northerncaliforniamostwanted.org/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
     
  13. Shin Masamura

    Shin Masamura Him who is without syntax cast out the 1st pronoun

    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I found a few, a bit disorganized..
    https://northerncaliforniamostwanted.org/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
     
  14. EmmaliLucia

    EmmaliLucia New Member

    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This has got to be the strangest case on Websleuths.

    Chained to a pole that was set on fire? Was he set on fire? If he were set on fire then would he still have hair? Was his hands cut off? He was in New Mexico so the dry heat might explain the mummification..
     
  15. bflocket

    bflocket Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I think it is more likely that the killer knew the guy had a criminal history, but wasn't necessarily a fugitive. And that is just IF the killer removed the hand(s) to thwart identification. We don't really know that is the case.

    This could also be some type of lynching for a crime he committed and got away with or got light punishment. If that were the case, the killer would know that, were the man killed, then the police would have a good idea of who killed him. Such as the family of someone he raped or stole from.

    If he were chained to the pole for 6-mos, animals could have helped remove them.
    He was also badly burned. If his hands were badly burned, I figured that they might decompose "differently" (i.e. not mummify) than the rest of his remains.
     
  16. gayeld

    gayeld Member

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I think it's more of a county by county thing here, rather than a statewide. I know Merced and Sacramento have their own (my childhood best friend's younger sister was on Merced's for a while.) Have you tried the CHP? The State Police were merged with them a while back.
     
  17. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I checked the CHP website and the Department of Corrections websites; I guess there is a possibility that I am overlooking their Most Wanted List. Arizona is another state that I really would like to find a most wanted list for. I started looking for this sort of list because of the bank robber in Reno/Sparks whose prints LE lost, but there are several UIDs that might have escaped from jail/prison or were wanted for something. So far, on a state basis these are the links that I have found (I also included DC and Canada) --

    Alabama http://dps.alabama.gov/community/wfSearch.aspx?Type=25

    Arkansas http://adc.arkansas.gov/escapee/

    Colorado http://www.doc.state.co.us/list-escapees

    Delaware http://www.doc.delaware.gov/walkawaysEscapees.shtml

    Florida http://www.dc.state.fl.us/FloridaWanted/

    Georgia http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/InmateInfo/MostWantedFugitives/MostWanted.html

    Idaho http://www.idoc.idaho.gov/content/probation_and_parole/fugitive_recovery/most_wanted

    Indiana http://doc-apps.in.gov/demo/wanted/Most_Wantedlist.asp?pageno=1&RecPerPage=ALL

    Kansas http://www.doc.ks.gov/escapees

    Louisiana http://www.doc.la.gov/fugitives/

    Massachusetts http://www.mass.gov/eopss/law-enforce-and-cj/prisons/doc-most-wanted/

    Michigan http://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/mostwanted.aspx

    Minnesota https://coms.doc.state.mn.us/PublicViewer/FugitiveAll.asp

    Mississippi http://www.dps.state.ms.us/category/most-wanted/

    Montana http://www.cor.mt.gov/News/mostwanted.mcpx

    Nevada http://www.doc.nv.gov/?q=node/181

    New York http://161.11.133.89/mostwanted/mostwanted2.asp

    North Carolina http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/offenderescapesearch.do?method=view

    Ohio http://www.drc.ohio.gov/web/wanted.htm

    Oklahoma http://204.62.19.160/fugitives/all_fugitives.aspx?Page=1

    Oregon http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/inspec/pages/most_wanted.aspx

    Tennessee http://www.state.tn.us/correction/escapees/escapees.html

    Virginia – Escapees http://vadoc.virginia.gov/offenders/wanted/escapees.shtm
    -- Fugitives http://vadoc.virginia.gov/offenders/wanted/fugitive.shtm

    Washington D.C. http://doc.dc.gov/node/289232

    Washington State http://www.doc.wa.gov/mostwanted/offenders.aspx

    West Virginia http://www.wvdoc.com/wvdoc/EscapeesandAbsconders/tabid/119/Default.aspx

    Canada http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/eng/wanted-by-the-rcmp

    If anyone has this information for other states or better links (maybe that have more photos or go back longer), hopefully they could pass them on.
     
  18. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,406
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I thought amputations referred to body parts that were missing while the person was alive. This sounds like post-mortem loss.

    The only Rodney Jones I've been able to find in that part of the country is, ironically, a law enforcement officer who is not missing.
     
  19. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not sure if too much time elapsed between when Stephen M. Collins escaped from the Washington Department of Corrections in 1981, yet there are similarities between him and this UID that stood out to me. Mr. Collins' hair is listed as blond, yet it looks dark enough in his photo that people might day it was light brown. He would have been 48 years old in 1999 and is said to be 5' 9" tall.
    274700_front.jpg

    http://www.doc.wa.gov/MostWanted/Offender.aspx?DocNum=274700&Name=COLLINS,%20Stephen%20M

    Interestingly, his crimes are listed as --

     
  20. Shamrocker99

    Shamrocker99 New Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    could it possibly have been a suicide?? chained himself and then lit himeself on fire--chains could have been to prevent him from putting himself out and not going through with the final act!
     
  21. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,406
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wondered that too. There was a suicide near here about a year ago where somebody did something similar. Handcuffed himself to an iron fence. It was awful.

    The hands wouldn't have to have been removed by a killer; after six months, natural processes of decay could cause them to fall off. There are a lot of unidentified people in here who were found without hands or other extremities.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice