Mr. Thomas, were
22 the sheets on JonBenet's bed collected on the
23 26th of December for forensic testing?
24 A. I was told they were.
25 Q. And what tests were performed on
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1 them?
2 A. I don't know. Detective Trujillo
3 had that assignment.
4 Q. Was there any test that you're
5 aware of that indicated the presence of urine
6 on those sheets?
7 A. Detective Trujillo imparted to me
8 that he had learned or believed that there
9 was not a presumptive test for urine
10 according to the CBI.
11 Q. Were they wet?
12 A. When?
13 Q. That morning. Did --
14 A. Unknown.
15 Q. -- you ask? Did you ask any of
16 the officers there, hey, by the way, were the
17 sheets on JonBenet's bed wet? Did you ask
18 that question of anybody?
19 A. I did not.
20 Q. Do you know if anybody else did?
21 A. I don't know.
22 Q. You don't know the answer to
23 whether they were wet or not?
24 A. I have been told that they were
25 urine stained.
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1 Q. Who told you they were urine
2 stained?
3 A. Detective Trujillo, Detective
4 Wickman. doesn't mean they were stained THAT night
5 Q. Have you seen the photographs of
6 the sheets?
7 A. It depends on which photographs
8 you're talking about.
9 Q. Of her sheets, of the bed.
10 MR. DIAMOND: Have you seen any.
11 A. Crime scene photographs, yes.
12 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Did they say they
13 could smell urine?
14 A. I have been told that CBI says,
15 yes, those sheets which are still in evidence
16 smell urine stained.
17 Q. And did they stain because --
18 well, you don't have kids, but I don't know
19 if you've ever had a bed-wetting accident but
20 when you have children one day you'll
21 probably know this to be true, urine stained
22 sheets, were these stained, have you seen
23 them?
24 A. I have not seen the sheets.
25 Q. I mean, you write -- you have
275
1 written in your book that JonBenet wet the
2 bed. What I want to know is what evidence
3 supports that statement that you are aware of
4 and that you found out about?
5 A. Urine stained sheets, the plastic
6 bed fitting and the diapers halfway out of
7 the cabinet.
8 Q. The diapers had urine on them?
9 A. That's not what I said.
10 Q. Well, I'm -- diaper halfway out of
11 the cabinet shows that the sheets were wet or
12 that she wet the bed?
13 A. No, I think you asked me what led
14 me to believe that she may have wet the bed.
15 Q. Well, I mean it seems to me that
16 the answer is pretty simple. Did you ever
17 go look at the sheets? They were there for
18 your viewing if you wanted to, weren't they?
19 A. No, they were at CBI.
20 Q. You could have picked up the phone
21 and asked somebody at CBI about the test on
22 them, couldn't you?
23 A. No, Detective Trujillo told us.
24 Q. Did you ever see the written
25 report on that finding by CBI?
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1 A. I don't know that CBI did a
2 report on whether or not the sheets were
3 urine stained.
4 Q. Surely you're not telling me that
5 the CBI's forensic testers performed, the only
6 test was to smell and look at the sheets?
7 A. As I said, I have been told that
8 there is not a presumptive test for urine.
9 Q. How about for the substances that
10 make up or are found in urine?
11 A. I have no training or knowledge of
12 that.
13 Q. How big was the area of the
14 sheets where they were urine stained or wet?
15 A. I don't know.
16 Q. Isn't there something that
17 describes that, a report?
18 A. Urine stained sheets according to
19 Trujillo.
20 Q. Take a look at page 146 of your
21 book, please. Down at the paragraph that
22 starts "John Meyer." Do you follow me?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. "John Meyer, the Boulder County
25 coroner, had barely begun his autopsy findings
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1 before Lee questioned the urine stains found
2 on the crotch of the long-john pants and the
3 panties beneath them." Have I read that
4 correctly?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. To put this into context, this
7 would have been during the VIP explanation or
8 conference, right?
9 A. No, I don't believe so.
10 Q. I'm sorry, when do you believe
11 this event took place where Meyer was going
12 through the autopsy findings where Henry Lee
13 was present?
14 A. I believe this was in 1997 at the
15 Boulder Police Department.
16 Q. Do you know when in 1997?
17 A. My best guess would be maybe
18 March, February.
19 Q. Reading on. "Were there
20 corresponding stains on the bed sheets? We
21 didn't know, although when the crime became a
22 murder instead of a kidnapping, those sheets
23 should have been promptly collected for
24 testing." Have I read that correctly?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Well, you didn't know in February,
2 are you telling me that you found out
3 subsequent in time that the sheets were wet?
4 When did you find out,
5 Mr. Thomas --
6 MR. DIAMOND: Go ahead.
7 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Let me -- why
8 don't you just tell me, when did you first
9 find out that the sheets were wet?
10 A. I do not think the sheets were
11 collected promptly. I think it was after the
12 fact. And one of the questions of this
13 investigation was that no one had checked the
14 bed on the morning of the 26th prior to a
15 wet bed possibly drying whether or not the
16 bed was wet. But the sheets nonetheless were
17 collected and described to me as being urine
18 stained and just recently saw something
19 corroborating that when Mr. Smit appeared on
20 the Today Show and there was a comment from
21 the CBI about that.
22 Q. Traces of creatinine were found;
23 is that what you're talking about?
24 A. I don't think that is what they
25 said on the NBC show.
279
1 Q. What did they say?
2 A. I think it said a CBI source said
3 the sheets were or appeared to be urine
4 stained.
5 Q. Let's go back and find out not so
6 much what NBC was talking about. Let's find
7 out what the police knew. Were the sheets
8 collected on December 26th, 1996 or not?
9 A. They were -- I don't know. I
10 wasn't there.
11 Q. What did you find out about it?
12 A. That at some point during the ten
13 days subsequent to December 26, 1996, when
14 the house was a crime scene, those sheets
15 were collected.
16 Q. At such time as they would have,
17 if wet, been dry; is that what you're telling
18 me?
19 A. Possibly.
