Normal Hymenal Configuration

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Rainsong, May 3, 2005.

  1. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    Probably more than you wanted to know, but necessary to clarify some misunderstandings in regard to Meyer's description of JonBenet's hymen.

    "Surrounding the mouth of the vaginal orifice is the rim of tissue called the hymen. The once thick, redundant hymen becomes thin and translucent with varying configurations. The hymen may be annular, crescent-shaped, redundant, and irregular or teardrop-shaped[1] (Fig. 5). Some less common variations of the hymen include the imperforate hymen, microperforate, and the septated hymen. In most instances, correction of these variations is not necessary until the girl reaches puberty."
    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/468258_print


    "Many people are under the impression that the hymen is located within the vagina. It is not. It’s part of the vulva, the external genital organs. It’s located outside the vagina. The hymen is a layer of tissue, just like the tissue around the opening of your vagina that partially conceals the vaginal orifice. You may or may not have one, most females do. The hymen is named after the Greek God Hymenaeus -- the God of marriage and weddings, FYI.

    During the early stages of fetal development there is no opening into the vagina at all. The thin layer of tissue that conceals the vagina at this time usually divides incompletely prior to birth, forming the hymen. The size and shape of this opening (or openings) varies greatly from person to person.

    Sometimes this formation of an opening does not occur, resulting in an imperforated hymen (it lacks the more common opening). Some females have no hymen at birth at all, since the tissue divided completely while they were still in the womb."
    http://www.coolnurse.com/hymen.htm

    Rainsong
     
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  3. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Several instigating factors that can contribute to nonspecific vulvovaginitis include:

    Poor hygiene practices at home or daycare program

    Inadequate front-to-back wiping

    Smaller labia minora, which are less protective of the vestibule, with a short distance from the anus to vagina

    Vulvovaginal epithelium that is not well estrogenized and thus thinner and more prone to irritation

    Foreign body such as toilet paper, small toys, or pieces of cloth, which may be inadvertently inserted in the vagina by the child

    Chemical irritants such as bubble baths, shampoos, or bath oils, and certain deodorant soaps

    Dermatologic conditions such as eczema and seborrhea

    Chronic disease and altered immune status

    Sexual abuse



    There are many reasons for chronic irritation, why choose the last.
     
  4. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Hello Rainsong,

    Welcome and thanks for the info re' hymens. It's something I've always wondered about but was afraid to ask. (Sort of like the King's physician who examined Snow White and wondered what caused those seven little dimples on her hymen.)

    I agree with you that Meyer's description of JonBenet's hymen is debatable --
    "The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosaL tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions." By itself, that could mean almost anything. That's why other evidence has to also be considered to help reach a conclusion, such as:

    o The hyperemia (excess blood in the tissue) is extensive and extends into the vaginal orifice.

    0 The hymenal orifice measures 1x1 cm, about twice the size it should measure.

    o There are abrasions (acute and chronic) at the 7 o'clock position in the vagina.

    Therefore, although not conclusive, there is evidence the hymen was likely lost as a result of these intrusions into the vagina, and it was not a "natural" condition of the vagina.

    BlueCrab
     
  5. JBRMod2

    JBRMod2 Registered User

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    Welcome Rainsong and any recent other new members.

    Please be sure to check out the Ramsey Links and Resources thread at the top and to be careful not to name private individuals as suspects in the Ramsey case.
     
  6. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    "There are doctors (even pediatricians) who claim that any inflammation of a little girl's vulva is a manifestation of sex abuse. Most, however, claim that this is an extremely common finding and can result from sweat, tight pants, certain kinds of soap, and the occasional mild rubbing (and masturbatory) activity of the normal girl. There are significant differences of opinion regarding what is the normal size of the hymenal opening and this, of course, bears directly on the question of abuse. Most agree that there have not been large studies of many children at different ages with regard to what the normal hymen looks like, its size, and whether or not it is indeed circular."
    http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume2/j2_4_2.htm

    "Active hyperemia is the increase in organ blood flow that is associated with increased metabolic activity of an organ or tissue. With increased metabolic activity, vascular resistance decreases due to both vasodilation and vascular recruitment (particularly in skeletal muscle). Active hyperemia occurs during muscle contraction (also termed exercise or functional hyperemia), increased cardiac activity, increased mental activity, and increased gastrointestinal activity during food absorption."
    http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/CVPhysiology/BF005.htm

    The last statement, "There are abrasions (acute and chronic) at the 7 o'clock position in the vagina" .is incorrect.

    From the autopsy report:"The area of abrasion is present at approximately
    the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right
    lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen."

    No mention is made of chronic abrasions. What is stated under MICROSCOPIC DESCRIPTION is, "Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation.

    This is at the cellular level.

    The hymen was not 'lost' any more than was the pineapple. Compare the following, both from the autopsy report:

    The yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may
    represent fragments of pineapple.

    The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions.

    One cannot conclude the hymen was 'lost' when Meyer clearly states it is present and in a crescent configuration as per previous citations regarding various hymenal configurations.

    Rainsong
     
  7. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    Thank you and BlueCrab both for the welcome.

    Rainsong
     
  8. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Rainsong,

    From the autopsy report:

    "Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflamation. The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion."

    Epithelial erosion is an abrasion created over time that, due to repetition, gradually removes the top layer of skin (called mucosa when referring to the vagina's interior), thus revealing the chronic injury (inflicted 1 to 3 days prior to the murder) at the same 7:00 position as is the acute injury (inflicted the same day as the murder).

    BlueCrab
     
  9. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    I will repeat: "There are doctors (even pediatricians) who claim that any inflammation of a little girl's vulva is a manifestation of sex abuse. Most, however, claim that this is an extremely common finding and can result from sweat, tight pants, certain kinds of soap, and the occasional mild rubbing (and masturbatory) activity of the normal girl."
    http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume2/j2_4_2.htm

    And :
    "Causes, incidence, and risk factors

    Cervical erosion may be caused by trauma (through intercourse, tampon insertion, foreign objects in the vagina, or speculum insertion), or infection (herpes, early syphilis, tampons that were not removed, severe vaginal infections), and sometimes chemicals (spermaticidal contraceptive creams or foams, douches).

    There is an increased risk associated with vaginal use of chemical agents or multiple sexual partners; however, the condition is seen in women without these risk factors."
    http://health.yahoo.com/ency/adam/001492

    As stated in the excerpt from the IPT, this condition is also seen in young children.

    Given no history of prior abuse on the part of either parent, nor any indication per JonBenet's pediatrician and the history of previous vaginal inflammations/infections, there is no valid reason to suspect sex abuse.

    From the autopsy report: No recent or remote anal or other perineal trauma is identified.

    The inflammation was chronic. The abrasion was not. Abrasions and erosions are not the same thing. They may appear to be the same, superficially, but there are not since their causes are not the same.

    Edited to add:
    Nonspecific Vulvovaginitis

    Vulvovaginal inflammation is the most common gynecological disorder of prepubertal girls and accounts for over 50% of visits to pediatric gynecological clinics.[15] Inflammation may involve the vulva or vagina or both and can result from a variety of stimuli. Several instigating factors that can contribute to nonspecific vulvovaginitis include:

    1.Poor hygiene practices at home or daycare program
    2. Inadequate front-to-back wiping
    3.Smaller labia minora, which are less protective of the vestibule, with a short distance from the anus to vagina
    4.Vulvovaginal epithelium that is not well estrogenized and thus thinner and more prone to irritation
    5.Foreign body such as toilet paper, small toys, or pieces of cloth, which may be inadvertently inserted in the vagina by the child
    6.Chemical irritants such as bubble baths, shampoos, or bath oils, and certain deodorant soaps
    7.Dermatologic conditions such as eczema and seborrhea
    8.Chronic disease and altered immune status
    9.Sexual abuse

    Rainsong
     
  10. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????

    When the hymen is torn...you "lose" your virginity. I do not recall losing my virginity at such a young age.

    When the hymen is torn...you bleed...you know...bleed like as in your monthly period!

    The hymen is inside the female orifice...not outside.

    You've heard the term "deflowered"...well that comes from tearing your hymen....as in losing your virginity...as in having sex.
     
  11. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    JonBenet's hymen was not torn.

    Rainsong
     
  12. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Rainsong,

    True. At autopsy JonBenet's hymen was not torn. That's because the hymen didn't even exist except for a rim of mucosal tissue that "represented" the hymen, so it's unclear whether it had been torn away at an earlier date or had never existed. But the peripheral evidence (abrasions, size of the hymenal orifice, etc.) suggests the hymen had likely been physically eliminated.
     
  13. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    JB would call for anyone within earshot to come and wipe her. Someone who was leary of being called a baby raper may have been afraid to wipe her and left her wet instead even when he gave her a clean pair of his own daughter's panties to change into.

    Or a paitbrush handle....

    Didn't JB's (allegedly seen by the BPD as well before they vanished into the ether) medical records indicate that she had vaginal problems due to the irritation of bubble baths?
     
  14. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    One more time: The hymen may be annular, crescent-shaped, redundant, and irregular or teardrop-shaped[1] (Fig. 5).

    JonBenet's hymen was present: The hymen itself is represented
    by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and
    10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately
    the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right
    lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen.

    Now, if JonBenet's hymen was not present, just how was it abraded as per the autopsy report?

    Rainsong
     
  15. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Rainsong,

    Don't mean to badger you, but almost all of the medical experts who studied the autopsy report and the associated microscopic slides concluded that JonBenet had suffered prior sexual abuse. These included Dr. David Jones; Dr. James Monteleone; Dr. John McCann; Dr. Cyril Wecht; Dr. Ronald Wright; and many others.

    Dr. Wecht, who is a medical doctor, a lawyer, and a coroner, told the Daily Camera in 1997, "Chronic inflammation and epithelial erosion of the vagina indicates sexual abuse more than two days old."
     
  16. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    Wecht is entitled to his opinion and like the other experts,he did not examine JonBenet's body. All he--and they--had were photos and the autopsy report.

    Again: "There are doctors (even pediatricians) who claim that any inflammation of a little girl's vulva is a manifestation of sex abuse. Most, however, claim that this is an extremely common finding and can result from sweat, tight pants, certain kinds of soap, and the occasional mild rubbing (and masturbatory) activity of the normal girl."

    Per Schiller: Without semen or some other hard evidence, the incest theory went nowhere. A careful review of Dr. Beuf''s medical record gave no indication of prior abuse. Nor could the police find any indication of suspicious behavior on the part of JonBenet's parents.

    The only reason to conclude--in the face of the LACK of corroborating evidence--that JonBenet was a victim of sexual abuse is to claim one of the parents perpetrated the murder.

    Rainsong
     
  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Rainsong,

    IMO the RIM of mucosal tissue, which "represents" what at one time was the hymen, was abraded (rough and irritated), obviously from friction. The hymen itself was gone due to either past sexual abuse or it was never there to begin with. Take your pick.
     
  18. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Rainsong,

    The medical experts had more than the autopsy report and photos to make a professional determination as to whether sexual abuse had occurred or not. They had the microscopic specimen slides made in the lab from the swabs that John Meyer had taken from JonBenet. These people have spent their lives studying microscopic specimens and know what they are looking at and talking about. Their scientific findings, I assure you, are more than just "opinions".
     
  19. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    You have not answered the question. If JonBenet's hymen was "lost" (your word), how could it be abraded?

    Considering the numerous configurations for hymens and Meyer's description, it was certainly there and was crescent shaped.

    Rainsong
     
  20. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    Studying a microscope slide will not show you whether or not a hymen is present in the body of a six-year-old murder victim. Now will it show you concrete evidence of prior sexual abuse unless it is a slide of STD cells.

    "The anterior hymenal rim may be very slim or absent as a normal variant; this was the case with JonBenet Ramsey and the pathologist recognized it as normal. http://www.pathguy.com/abuse.htm"

    Wecht also said Steve Thomas 'knows so much about the JonBenet Ramsey murder he doesn't mince words.' Those words are from Steve Thomas' deposition--the same depositon that shows how little Steve Thomas actually knew about the case. Wecht also said, "There's absolutely no question she was abused," Wecht said. "There's blood, and contusions (in the vagina,) and the hymen has been torn." Yet the autopsy report does not say the hymen was torn--and Wecht goes on to say he viewed JonBenet's murder as an accident, but follows that with, "If you inflict a blow like that on someone whose heart is beating," he asserts, "the heart doesn't stop, because the cardiac and respiratory centers are at the base of the brain.� You're not damaging that with a blow to the top of the head.� It'll become compromised as the brain swells, but initially there's no compromise.� They control your heart and lungs.� The heart continues to beat. The blood continues to flow.� But in the Ramsey case, they got less than a teaspoon and a half of blood.� If you have a beating heart and the carotid arteries are carrying blood, this person doesn't die right away.� That means that blow was inflicted when she was already dead or dying."

    So the question is, how do you accidently strangle someone? His summation is not logical, therefore no credence should be given to his opinion of prior sex abuse.

    And from Dr. Thomas Henry: {Denver Medical Examiner} From what is noted in the autopsy report, there is no injury to the anus, there is no injury to the skin around the vagina and the labia. There is no indication of healed scars in any of those areas. There is no other indication from the autopsy report at all that there is any other previous injuries that have healed in that area.

    Rainsong
     
  21. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Rainsong,

    Good question. Since a very young child was the victim, you have to read between the lines in regard to what Wecht is telling the reader about an accidental strangulation. My BDI theories are similar to Wecht's theory, so here it is in a nutshell.

    IMO JonBenet Ramsey was accidentally strangled while erotic asphyxiation was being performed on her. The device wrapped around her throat was not a garrote. It was a device designed and built to be used for erotic asphyxiation (EA) and autoerotic asphyxiation (AEA), both of them dangerous masturbation techniques. The goal of the devices is to enhance orgasms by temporarily restricting air to the lungs and hence oxygen to the brain. Due to evidence of a stun gun having been used on JonBenet, her participation in the EA game was likely involuntary.

    The FBI estimates that EA (with a partner) and AEA (solo) accidentally asphyxiates about 500 Americans every year, almost all of them young people. Most of the families of the victims, due to the embarrassment, try to change the scenes of the deaths and invent stories about suicide, accidents, murder, etc.

    Breath control devices such as that found on JonBenet usually have safety mechanisms built into the design, such as a cord that can be let go of that will immediately loosen the ligature around the neck, so the subjects don't accidentally strangle themselves. When these safety mechanisms fail, it can result in death.

    My theory on why the safety mechanism on the EA device wrapped around JonBenet's neck failed is that her hair got entangled in the slip knot that should have easily released the tension on the ligature when let go, but it didn't release. I theorize that, fighting to breathe, JonBenet, or her partner, in a panic pulled on the cord and made the knot with the hair tangled in it even tighter -- asphyxiating her.

    The final extreme tightening of the ligature and the bash in the head, IMO, were both part of the staging to go along with the fake ransom note from a bunch of bad asses from a "small foreign faction".

    IMO the perpetrators were children experimenting with something they knew little about, although some of my BDI theories include an older accomplice. The parents, of course, helped cover up the crime and continue to coverup to this day.

    Anyhow Rainsong, that is how you accidentally strangle someone.

    BlueCrab
     

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