NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #17

[laytonian]

I am not sure that I have posted on Websleuth before, because I rarely sign on. I have posted a bit on facebook. I don't know if anyone will even read this. However, I need to know if the information about Steven being seen at Best Buy is reliable information? Do those who are most familiar with this missing person's case feel that the man who claims to have seen Steven feel the information is reliable?

Secondly I know that there has been much speculation and nonsense, but I am following up on something that maybe insignificant, but I am giving it a shot. Since it's just a shot and a hunch I am just going to follow up and if it turns into something then I will share more details. I just don't want to give anyone any unecessary false hope when it could be nothing. Thanks in advance for your answer about the Best Buy thing.

Kelly

If you have even a tiny bit of information, don't waste time.
Report it immediately via the CrimeStoppers and the forsteven.com web page.

You will always doubt what you saw.

The three-week delay in reporting the Best Buy tip, made it impossible to verify.

The man who reported the Best Buy sighting, is "99-100%" positive he talked to Steven Koecher, gave him $40 in the parking lot, and then saw him a few times inside the store.

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

laytonian,

You don't know me from adam's house cat but I have read your comments for a awhile and you have made some very astute observations. Steven appeared to be a pretty normal guy and from my work and experience people don't just one day up and become street people. That's not how it works. Becoming a street person is usually the result of a long line of poor choices of a long period of time. I have yet to meet anyone on the street who ended up there overnight. It just doesn't work that way.

I was reading your earlier posts about the possibility of Steven living on the streets of Vegas. I can tell you statistically most people who end up on the street usually go through a series of phases before they end up there depending on the reasons. With regard to mental illness, they usually end up on the street because they have exhausted benefits or used what benefits they have to buy drugs or alcohol.

Living on the street is an horrible hard life that takes some street smarts, and someone who has never had experienced it to up and decide one day to live in homeless shelters would probably not make it. Not to mention, it's not like the street is totally isolated from the outside world. Believe or not the news does get around to these folks and if he really was on the street living in homeless shelters in Vegas you would have found him by now.

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

If you have even a tiny bit of information, don't waste time.
Report it immediately via the CrimeStoppers and the forsteven.com web page.

You will always doubt what you saw.

The three-week delay in reporting the Best Buy tip, made it impossible to verify.

The man who reported the Best Buy sighting, is "99-100%" positive he talked to Steven Koecher, gave him $40 in the parking lot, and then saw him a few times inside the store.

What do you think, do you think he is being honest or what.



Kelly

 

[laytonian]

Don't worry about a "big zero".

If YOU honestly believe you've found something that can/should be checked out, you should report it.

If you think you've seen Steven, you can look at all of the pictures on the For Steven photos - there's some there, that we all wish had been posted earlier. They show him clearly and in close-up.

Then, everything you need to know, to report it, is here on For Steven contacts. The phone numbers are good, AND also sending in the tip directly to the family, in the space provided, helps reinforce it. Please give your name and email address, so they can ask questions.

There's been other tips from the area of Craig Road and North Decatur - but none had enough detail (or were sent in soon enough) to be checked out.

 

[laytonian]

Living on the street is an horrible hard life that takes some street smarts, and someone who has never had experienced it to up and decide one day to live in homeless shelters would probably not make it. Not to mention, it's not like the street is totally isolated from the outside world. Believe or not the news does get around to these folks and if he really was on the street living in homeless shelters in Vegas you would have found him by now.

I agree.

I made contact with the journalist who visits the tunnels, and he hadn't seen Steven. Obviously, social agencies and law enforcement ID their "clients", as do medical facilities. Since Vegas has a big push right now to recovery Medicaid funds for services rendered, if Steven had gained such services, he'd have been ID'd that way.

If he's hiding in plain sight in Vegas, he's craftier than anyone gave him credit for.

 

[Fairy1]

I agree.

I made contact with the journalist who visits the tunnels, and he hadn't seen Steven. Obviously, social agencies and law enforcement ID their "clients", as do medical facilities. Since Vegas has a big push right now to recovery Medicaid funds for services rendered, if Steven had gained such services, he'd have been ID'd that way.

If he's hiding in plain sight in Vegas, he's craftier than anyone gave him credit for.

I really think the folks living in the tunnels are pretty hard core. I just can't see Steven in that environment. And what if he hasn't sought medical care or other social services?

Just sayin....he could stay under the radar this long - even if he was homeless.

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

Fairy1- I was not referring to you as I was specifically speaking about another individual when I said that I didn't believe anyone had seen Steven. It sounds like you may very well have seen him but just didn't get a close enough look to be 100 percent sure. The person who I am referring to I believe is sincere in their belief that they think they saw Mr. Koecher. I just think that they are wrong and saw someone who resembled him and have convinced themselves it was Steven, much like those who claimed repressed memory syndrome in the late 80's that has been refuted and debunked. In fact from my correpondence I am sure that they didn't see Steven.

Although I can only go on what I have read in the paper and news, I have done a process of elimination and have a suspicion of what may have happened to Mr. Koecher based on my observation and experience.

There are only four scenarios that could have taken place from what I can see. He could have chosen to walk away, suicide, foul play or had some kind of accident.

With regards to the idea of suicide, I think this is very unlikely due to the fact that people who commit suicide, like my best friend's brother who did two weeks ago, are usually suffering from to one extent or another a unipolar depression. Whether they have bipolar disorder, major depression, or are delusional from some form of psychosis, suicide is precipitated by a one sided downward cycle. In the case of my friend's brother he suffered from bipolar disorder and had stopped taking his meds. He had lost his business and although very sad it was no surprise to his spouse or his family. He felt that his family would be better off without him as he believed he was a financial burden to them.

I have read nothing to indicate that Mr. Koecher was suffering from this kind of depression, characteristically people who are planning on taking their own lives don't usually do things like buy presents for relatives for the simple reason they are not planning on being around in the future. Mr. Koecher's actions prior to his disappearance are not indicative of someone who was contemplating this kind of action. Although most people don't leave suicide notes, there are usually tell tale signs, such as a, "trial run," such as an attemted suicide or comments to loved ones such as, "it would have been better if I was never born." It's possible but I don't think very likely. From the comments in the news there doesn't appear to be any kind of evidence pointing to this.


Mr. Koecher could have chosen to leave on his own. Again I think this is not likely for the simple reason that even those who know how to stay under the radar and know how to disappear have to really work at it as it is very hard to do. Example would be Olivia Newton John's boyfriend of 9 years. Patrick McDermott who disappeared in 2005. He emptied his bank accounts and was suspected of going to Mexico three months after he disappeared. It was finally verified that he was in Mexico by the fact he used a credit card and had checked out a website that a hired P.I set up. He is still down there and is not wanted by the police. He owes on a ton of bills but cannot be compelled to return to the U.S.

Also people like Mr. McDermott who take off don'[t necessarily want to disappear as much as they simply want to get away from whatever problem they have like in his case he had alot of bills that were causing him stress. Eventually someone who walks away is going to have to need money which means they will have to find work and most employers are going to require I.D. and a social security card. A person would have to be fairly sophisticated to stay completely off the radar and get a phony I.D. and social security card. If he didn't obtain a phony social and I.D. an inquiry would show up on his credit bureau showing he had applied for employment which would give you his general location.

Mr. Koecher could have had an accident. Where? Strolling out to the desert? Falling down a ravine? A cliff? I have looked at that area where he was last seen, it doesn't appear to have cliffs and ravines and why would he be strolling out in the desert in that location in the first place? Does it seem reasonable that he was taking a hike in that area in the desert for fun? I suppose it's possible but probably not likely.

Finally he could have been a victim of some kind of foul play. to what extent and how I don't know.

However I think I know what probably happened at least why he was in that neighborhood. I believe Steven Koecher was there to meet someone who probably has a parent or grandparent who owns a home in that neighborhood who simply were not home at he time when Steven Koecher was there to meet whoever he met. That person may even have a key to the particular house and that explains why nobody saw Steven Koecher if the person he met in that neighborhood did'nt actually live there but has parents or grandparents that do. I think Steven met someone there and they left by car and from there I don't know what happened.

However I would try and find out if there is someone who lives in that neighborhood who has a relative Steven Koecher's age, who might come by and visit and have a key to the house. This would explain why nobody saw Steven Koecher if the owners of the home were gone and a relative was there to meet Steven and had a key to get in a house or met out in front of the home and drove off.

 

[Sin City]

Welcome Kelly!

Your ideas regarding foul play are very similar to what I had been thinking in the beginning of this case.

Maybe the person SK met was visiting for the holidays, or maybe the actual home owners were out of town for the holidays. Yet, this person could be local, and met SK at his parents/grandparent's home while they were out of the home that day.

The PI should have been able to inquire about residents & any visitors during his investigations of the neighborhood, but who knows what he actually did in the neighborhood.

 

[Sin City]

Something that has been bothering me from the beginning is a comment made by one of the men SK last spoke with. "Do what you have to do." This reply just irritates me, because it seems the type of reply that one would give, if one were being told of another's intentions, and you didn't exactly agree with them.

Or, maybe SK told him that he had a good lead on a job prospect, and he was meeting someone. Then I could see this remark being said.

However, we've all wondered why this person didn't ask SK what he was doing in LV. They were friends afterall, so it's not as if this question would have been out of bounds.

We don't even know if this man has said to others, "I wish I had asked Steven what he was doing in LV?" The comment made just seems so indifferent, but maybe that's this person's personality.

 

[webrocket]

However I think I know what probably happened at least why he was in that neighborhood. I believe Steven Koecher was there to meet someone who probably has a parent or grandparent who owns a home in that neighborhood who simply were not home at he time when Steven Koecher was there to meet whoever he met. That person may even have a key to the particular house and that explains why nobody saw Steven Koecher if the person he met in that neighborhood did'nt actually live there but has parents or grandparents that do. I think Steven met someone there and they left by car and from there I don't know what happened.

However I would try and find out if there is someone who lives in that neighborhood who has a relative Steven Koecher's age, who might come by and visit and have a key to the house. This would explain why nobody saw Steven Koecher if the owners of the home were gone and a relative was there to meet Steven and had a key to get in a house or met out in front of the home and drove off.

why would he not just park in front of the house in question rather than parking in a cul de sac and walking off into the distance?

 

[laytonian]

why would he not just park in front of the house in question rather than parking in a cul de sac and walking off into the distance?

I can think of several reasons; it would also fit into your scenario.

Because the person he was meeting, told him to park there?

... and if this person was truly familiar with the neighborhood, he also knew about the security cameras, and wanted Steven to "parade" in front of them?

... and if they were leaving for awhile, they knew they couldn't leave the car in front of someone's home for that long.

My questions are:
1 -- How would they have met, and which house did they belong to? The people in the few homes on EL, have been talked to several times. We don't know if the specific question "Did you have visitors at your home, that weekend?" was asked.

2 -- Did anyone from one of Steven's old LDS wards or schools, have relatives in SCA?

3 -- The big one: did anyone in SCA know GW?

 

[laytonian]

Something that has been bothering me from the beginning is a comment made by one of the men SK last spoke with. "Do what you have to do." This reply just irritates me, because it seems the type of reply that one would give, if one were being told of another's intentions, and you didn't exactly agree with them.

Or, maybe SK told him that he had a good lead on a job prospect, and he was meeting someone. Then I could see this remark being said.

However, we've all wondered why this person didn't ask SK what he was doing in LV. They were friends afterall, so it's not as if this question would have been out of bounds.

We don't even know if this man has said to others, "I wish I had asked Steven what he was doing in LV?" The comment made just seems so indifferent, but maybe that's this person's personality.

He came kinda close to saying that: KCSG St George report:

Greg Webb, a good friend of Koecher's in the LDS church, said he called Koecher the morning he disappeared. His cell phone has not been used since, nor his bank cards. Webb said he asked Koecher to attend a church meeting in his place that day at 11 a.m.

"He said he was in Las Vegas, but would go back [to St. George] if I needed him to," said Webb. "I was also in Vegas so decided to go back myself. I told him just to do whatever it was he had to do and I'd see him later. That's it. I wish I would have asked him to go back to St. George."

Webb, who did not know why Koecher was in the Las Vegas area, said his friend always told him if he was not planning to be at church. That Sunday, he never called. "It's one thing that sticks out in my mind," said Webb.

Webb said Koecher, who worked for The Salt Lake Tribune 's online edition from March 2007 until July 2008, had been actively looking for a full-time job and had sent out his résumé to a list of possible employers.​

BBM

It's always good to reread things.

Here, GW is quoted as saying "I decided to go back myself".

Yet, he told Naegle he was on I-15 just passing the raceway (indicating he was ALREADY enroute to St George). Naegle posted about that conversation with him, HERE on Websleuths.

ALSO: Click on the KCSG link, for (probably) the best description of Steven's personality.

 

[shefner]

I've been lurking on this thread for quite some time. I have to say that the comment, "just do what you have to do," is very unusual. It has a condescending tone to it. I have a tough time believing that my friend, who's number I have with me when I'm travelling, ends up being in the same city as I'm visiting, would not say, "What are you doing here man?" Matter of fact, I find it almost impossible that Steven was not asked that type of question....unless the friend already knew.

 

[seekingsusan]

I'm so glad to see the most loyal of Steven's followers are still here contributing to the search. Thank you. Frankly, I have been stumped for the past few months and have had nothing to add.

I haven't ruled out suicide. I can see both sides of the fence, though, on this issue. Granted, we don't know for sure if Steven was suffering from depression, but some of his behaviors in weeks prior to his disappearance suggest something was off. And per one of his friends, he had been prescribed (or using without prescription) some type of medicine in the past. The gifts for his brother could have meant he intended to be around for Christmas, but they also could have been a goodbye. (Also, it was the family that came to the conclusion the gifts were for his brother - we have no way to independently verify that Steven bought these gifts with his family in mind. Although, the bib seems to fit, the ornaments could have been for anyone) The trip to Ruby Valley, spontaneous and unplanned, seems almost manic, suggesting bipolar depression. And his final cry for help could have been telling GW he was in Vegas. ANYONE with a brain should have/would have asked "Why are you in Vegas" giving Steven a chance to open up about his feelings, predicament, whatever. But the one person who called, who had the opportunity to ask, failed Steven. Most people who commit suicide are looking for an excuse not to go through with it. I think at least some of us agree that Steven wasn't attempting to hide his trail...and I believe that has something to do with the fact that he wanted to be followed, pursued, or to be talked out of it. Hence checking his voicemail....Steven was hoping someone would call (besides his employer or landlord) who would care enough to ask what he was doing and tell him he had other options. I realize it's odd that his body hasn't been found, but Steven had 20 hours to find somewhere to go off the beaten path. And a day on WS makes it clear that no matter where a person goes missing or is murdered, finding a body is never guaranteed; no matter how much or how little information is obtained by LE and no matter how much is known about their last days, last hours or last moments.

I guess the only problem with my theory is that damn file folder under his arm. Maybe it contains a final note to his family....

 

[carbuff]

Welcome, Kelly, glad to have you here.

Thank you for sharing your family experience with depression. I'm sure that's accurate for your experience, but it does only cover a percentage of depressed people.

It's entirely possible to be suicidal without any of the symptoms you talk about. I was the kind of depressed and suicidal person who tries to "be strong" and hold it all inside because clearly I was an evil person if I was depressed with lovely kids, good job, etc. Only an evil person would fail to appreciate that. When I was around friends and family, I put on a happy face. I went on making plans for the future and going on with my everyday routine because I couldn't admit even to myself how depressed I was. The urge to kill myself would come on suddenly -- while driving, I would see a big concrete pillar beside the road and think suddenly, "If I just swerve the car, it'd be all over." The only reason I didn't is that my middle kid was talking to me in the back seat and I was still sane enough that I knew he didn't deserve to die. I was the only one evil enough to deserve that.

It wasn't the only instance.

I got through it mainly because of my family and because they did eventually notice. And because at a critical point, one of my kids said something that cut through the blackness. If I had been at that point and instead of the warmth and love, somebody told me they were breaking up and I had a bad fight with one of my parents -- I dunno. It seems like I would easily have gone the other directions.

I don't know whether Steven was depressed, but I see a lot in his behavior that indicates he might have been.

 

[laytonian]

I'm so glad to see the most loyal of Steven's followers are still here contributing to the search. Thank you. Frankly, I have been stumped for the past few months and have had nothing to add.

I haven't ruled out suicide. I can see both sides of the fence, though, on this issue. Granted, we don't know for sure if Steven was suffering from depression, but some of his behaviors in weeks prior to his disappearance suggest something was off. And per one of his friends, he had been prescribed (or using without prescription) some type of medicine in the past. The gifts for his brother could have meant he intended to be around for Christmas, but they also could have been a goodbye. (Also, it was the family that came to the conclusion the gifts were for his brother - we have no way to independently verify that Steven bought these gifts with his family in mind. Although, the bib seems to fit, the ornaments could have been for anyone) The trip to Ruby Valley, spontaneous and unplanned, seems almost manic, suggesting bipolar depression. And his final cry for help could have been telling GW he was in Vegas. ANYONE with a brain should have/would have asked "Why are you in Vegas" giving Steven a chance to open up about his feelings, predicament, whatever. But the one person who called, who had the opportunity to ask, failed Steven. Most people who commit suicide are looking for an excuse not to go through with it. I think at least some of us agree that Steven wasn't attempting to hide his trail...and I believe that has something to do with the fact that he wanted to be followed, pursued, or to be talked out of it. Hence checking his voicemail....Steven was hoping someone would call (besides his employer or landlord) who would care enough to ask what he was doing and tell him he had other options. I realize it's odd that his body hasn't been found, but Steven had 20 hours to find somewhere to go off the beaten path. And a day on WS makes it clear that no matter where a person goes missing or is murdered, finding a body is never guaranteed; no matter how much or how little information is obtained by LE and no matter how much is known about their last days, last hours or last moments.

I guess the only problem with my theory is that damn file folder under his arm. Maybe it contains a final note to his family....

....or several notes, to individuals. One note would fit inside a shirt pocket. If the folder was plasticized and had a zip closure, I'd be convinced it had papers meant to last awhile outdoors.

Ya know, I keep going back to that. Canyon1 and carbuff each told us a lot about searches, and bones. How "new bones" would look like tree branches, and "old bones" would be cleaner and lighter.

The only thing that threw a wrench into the works, was seeing the cell tower hits. They certainly look like they trail in one direction (even IF the two "unknowns" are removed).

But walking randomly (away from the road he entered Overlook Village through), and checking voicemail to see if a certain person responded, could account for that.

 

[laytonian]

If I had been at that point and instead of the warmth and love, somebody told me they were breaking up and I had a bad fight with one of my parents -- I dunno. It seems like I would easily have gone the other directions.

(gentle snippage)

There was one other issue: LL and the back rent. LL's wife publicly stated LL felt "guilty".

Here's a list of LL's calls from the period we have phone records for; excessive?

12/7/09

8:15 AM
11:50 AM
​

12/8/09

6:30 AM
8:23 AM
​

12/13/09

5:36 PM
​

12/14/09

7:04 AM *
11:42 AM
5:05 PM
​

12/15/09

7:16 AM
​

12/16/09

12:09 PM​

* Retrieved from last VM check
Later calls are "tower hits" only, with the phone apparently unfound/dead.

 

[laytonian]

I've been lurking on this thread for quite some time. I have to say that the comment, "just do what you have to do," is very unusual. It has a condescending tone to it. I have a tough time believing that my friend, who's number I have with me when I'm travelling, ends up being in the same city as I'm visiting, would not say, "What are you doing here man?" Matter of fact, I find it almost impossible that Steven was not asked that type of question....unless the friend already knew.

I know GW's described as a friend, but they were "church friends".

Although GW and SK had talked/texted several times in the last week, there's no visible interaction between them after that last conversation. Unless, of course, GW called from another number. But I've checked the phone list against GW's business numbers, too.

 

[carbuff]

(gentle snippage)

There was one other issue: LL and the back rent. LL's wife publicly stated LL felt "guilty".

Here's a list of LL's calls from the period we have phone records for; excessive?

12/7/09

8:15 AM
11:50 AM
​

12/8/09

6:30 AM
8:23 AM
​

12/13/09

5:36 PM
​

12/14/09

7:04 AM *
11:42 AM
5:05 PM
​

12/15/09

7:16 AM
​

12/16/09

12:09 PM​

* Retrieved from last VM check
Later calls are "tower hits" only, with the phone apparently unfound/dead.

Yeah, all of that -- lots of blows in a rather short space of time.

 

[carbuff]

I know GW's described as a friend, but they were "church friends".

Although GW and SK had talked/texted several times in the last week, there's no visible interaction between them after that last conversation. Unless, of course, GW called from another number. But I've checked the phone list against GW's business numbers, too.

That's one of the biggest things that makes me fear suicide. He had lost touch with or was avoiding most of his old friends -- for instance, ignoring Texas Tom's texts -- and didn't seem to have made new ones. He had church friends, seemed to get along with his boss and the landlord, but wasn't close to any of them. He'd had a fight with at least part of his family. Not a lot of network there to help him through a rough time.