Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[wfgodot]

According to the article Agent Thomas MacDonald was a relatively junior agent over 5 years ago. He has since transferred to Maine and I found an article from a case he worked in Maine last year. From New York City to Maine - is this a disciplinary action type thing. Or agents just transfer often ?

Perhaps his position there is more senior in terms of the Bureau's office in Maine, in terms of command, and maybe he's gaining experience in administration; but it certainly could be a demotion. I believe it was Agent James Hosty who took part of the fall for the Bureau's handling of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to the assassination; he was reprimanded, then assigned to the much less glamorous confines of the Kansas City office, for the rest of his career, I believe.

 

[wfgodot]

Now Wall Street Journal has this report:

Officials said they planned to shut down the investigation scene on Prince Street on Monday afternoon.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303592404577360344046456070.html

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Perhaps his position there is more senior in terms of the Bureau's office in Maine, in terms of command, and maybe he's gaining experience in administration; but it certainly could be a demotion; I believe it was Agent James Hosty who took part of the fall for the Bureau's handling of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to the assassination; he was reprimanded, then assigned to the much less glamorous confines of the Kansas City office, for the rest of his career, I believe.

I noticed with Casey Anthony case - the main detective was a long time detective. When he took the stand he stated he was now Internal Affairs. I wondered why he decided to no longer investigate civilians.

 

[Reannan]

So, I am still curious about the Soho Playgroup that played in that basement.... From what Another New Yorker posted, the basement area they are digging up, where Miller's workshop was, is a different area than the area that used to be the playgroup? Apparently, Etan's sister used to be a part of that playgroup, and I swear one of the playgroup pictures from the 1970's looks a lot like Etan, IMHO. We have been told Etan was given a dollar the night before he went missing for helping Miller out with something in 'the basement'. I am just trying to understand how comfortable Etan would have been in that building, and perhaps how he could have ended up there on the day he had to be feeling all grown up and excited because of being allowed to walk to his school bus by himself for the first time. What would have distracted him to walk to that basement? :waitasec:

"
Photos emerged yesterday that show beaming kids in the basement of 127 Prince St., where FBI investigators have been searching for evidence in the disappearance 33 years ago of Etan Patz.
The cellar that police now believe may hold the answers to the city’s most heart-wrenching mystery was a space transformed by industrious parents from a commercial cellar to a bright playground. .....
.... "The basement would have been familiar territory to the Patz family. Etan’s older sister, Shira, was a play-group member, Reichler recalled."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...l_cellar_eNtvn1xXpAwjpZC0h63IjP#ixzz1sp9jdKVh

 

[karen7868]

So, I am still curious about the Soho Playgroup that played in that basement.... From what Another New Yorker posted, the basement area they are digging up, where Miller's workshop was, is a different area than the area that used to be the playgroup? Apparently, Etan's sister used to be a part of that playgroup, and I swear one of the playgroup pictures from the 1970's looks a lot like Etan, IMHO. We have been told Etan was given a dollar the night before he went missing for helping Miller out with something in 'the basement'. I am just trying to understand how comfortable Etan would have been in that building, and perhaps how he could have ended up there on the day he had to be feeling all grown up and excited because of being allowed to walk to his school bus by himself for the first time. What would have distracted him to walk to that basement? :waitasec:

"
Photos emerged yesterday that show beaming kids in the basement of 127 Prince St., where FBI investigators have been searching for evidence in the disappearance 33 years ago of Etan Patz.
The cellar that police now believe may hold the answers to the city’s most heart-wrenching mystery was a space transformed by industrious parents from a commercial cellar to a bright playground. .....
.... "The basement would have been familiar territory to the Patz family. Etan’s older sister, Shira, was a play-group member, Reichler recalled."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...l_cellar_eNtvn1xXpAwjpZC0h63IjP#ixzz1sp9jdKVh

BBM. I find it very strange that of all these playgroup photos and blogs, Etan is not mentioned one time, nor his sister, Shira. I came across the attached photos that even have the other playgroup kids wondering who the little boy is, even though it has a girl's name when you move the cursor (the picture of them standing along the brick wall).

How in the world would they not know who Etan was as popular as this story was at the time? Did LE question any of these kids? Did any of the other kids know who OM or Ramos was or see him acting strange? If Etan was in fact a participating member of these so-called playgroups, then Etan was exposed to other adults and children that probably had his trust too IMO, along with access to this basement (if in fact they find his remains in the basement, which I personally do not think they will). Something just does not add up. I haven't even seen his sister Shira photographed nor mentioned. Very strange.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/110354702342597/photos

PS, I don't know how to link it, but it appears the other children in the playgroup did not know who the child was in question. When I first came across the photo, that particular child in question had a girl's name of Eloyse Joy when you moved the cursor; however, in side comments it said "Ellie" wasn't there that day and did not know who it was. The other picture that I questioned (the one with the little boy sitting on the floor), it was actually someone else when you moved the cursor.

 

[karen7868]

If this search turns up nothing, I hope LE does not give up.

As a matter of fact (and I know I am going to get slammed for this), if it does turn up nothing, IMO they should start back at square 1. In today's time and age, who is normally the first person looked at? The parents. I know that is a terrible thought, but it is a fact. Plain and simple. What I have learned since the following cases: Susan Smith, Andrea Yates, Casey Anthony, Stephanie Sloop, Scott Peterson, Michael Peterson, Justin Barber, Josh Powell, etc. (the list could go on and on), it is usually the last person you would think of that would do such a thing. Heck, even kids kill kids. I really hope LE does not give up searching for justice for little Etan if they do not find anything in this search. Just saying..as bad as it sounds, I think they need to question his mother, or even his sister again.

I hope I have not really ticked anyone for saying that the family needs to be looked at again. It's just what I have learned over the years of following these cases and it's JMHO.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

If this search turns up nothing, I hope LE does not give up.

As a matter of fact (and I know I am going to get slammed for this), if it does turn up nothing, IMO they should start back at square 1. In today's time and age, who is normally the first person looked at? The parents. I know that is a terrible thought, but it is a fact. Plain and simple. What I have learned since the following cases: Susan Smith, Andrea Yates, Casey Anthony, Stephanie Sloop, Scott Peterson, Michael Peterson, Justin Barber, Josh Powell, etc. (the list could go on and on), it is usually the last person you would think of that would do such a thing. Heck, even kids kill kids. I really hope LE does not give up searching for justice for little Etan if they do not find anything in this search. Just saying..as bad as it sounds, I think they need to question his mother, or even his sister again.

I hope I have not really ticked anyone for saying that the family needs to be looked at again. It's just what I have learned over the years of following these cases and it's JMHO.

I was thinking that it is not Ramos, Miller, any other names mentioned. I started to think maybe someone was driving to work and accidentally hit the boy with their car. Maybe utelized a dumpster or pryed a manhole cover with their crowbar or something.

Oh regarding the playgroup - it is beyond strange that the kids from his playgroup are sharing memories of cheese on the playgroup memory website. Not one mention of Etan. If you look up any of these people - the lady who just spoke to the media - she ran the playgroup - all these years she does not mention Etan on any of her websites. Even to the media she says the sister was in the playgroup. She does not remember Etan. It is almost like he never existed. Maybe these photos are the brother.

 

[karen7868]

I was thinking that it is not Ramos, Miller, any other names mentioned. I started to think maybe someone was driving to work and accidentally hit the boy with their car. Maybe utelized a dumpster or pryed a manhole cover with their crowbar or something.

Oh regarding the playgroup - it is beyond strange that the kids from his playgroup are sharing memories of cheese on the playgroup memory website. Not one mention of Etan. If you look up any of these people - the lady who just spoke to the media - she ran the playgroup - all these years she does not mention Etan on any of her websites. Even to the media she says the sister was in the playgroup. She does not remember Etan. It is almost like he never existed. Maybe these photos are the brother.

BBM. If you are talking about Etan's brother, Ari, I don't think it is because IIRC, Ari was only 2 yrs. old at the time.

It really is strange that Etan is never mentioned in any of these blogs, etc. just like he didn't exist.

 

[carole]

Couldn't the answer be that Etan simply wasn't part of the playgroup?

 

[karen7868]

Couldn't the answer be that Etan simply wasn't part of the playgroup?

Possible I guess, but they have already made the statement that his Shira was part of it, so logically wouldn't it make sense that Etan was also, especially seeing he was around the same age as the others?

Also, I have seen several articles stating Julie Patz was also running a daycare (playgroup) in their home at the time Etan disappeared.

I would just find it really wierd if Etan wasn't a particpant, yet his sister Shira, which was only 2 years older than Etan, would be a participant.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

[/B

BBM. If you are talking about Etan's brother, Ari, I don't think it is because IIRC, Ari was only 2 yrs. old at the time.

It really is strange that Etan is never mentioned in any of these blogs, etc. just like he didn't exist.

Well they say Ari was 2 , Shria was 8. Never seen photos of them at those ages. The Mom said another reason she let Etan go alone was cause Ari had a playmate spending the night - so she stayed in to be close to them. But she herself was a babysitter - so I am very confused. How can after all these years not 1 person ever say - Oh I went to school with Etan , Ari, or Shria. On a website someplace. Maybe one for memories of the school or whatever. Only strangers writing books.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Also the way the playgroup is described - parents who bring their children or child take a shift supervising the playgroup. Which means even if Etan never went to playgroup - his sister did. So the Mother of Etan would have taken shifts at the playgroup. And babysit at home - her full time job until Etan went missing. But also use the girlfriend of Ramos to walk Etan to school during bus strike ? Confusing set - up. So who walked Etan to the bus stop every day - this was his first time alone.

 

[karen7868]

Well they say Ari was 2 , Shria was 8. Never seen photos of them at those ages. The Mom said another reason she let Etan go alone was cause Ari had a playmate spending the night - so she stayed in to be close to them. But she herself was a babysitter - so I am very confused. How can after all these years not 1 person ever say - Oh I went to school with Etan , Ari, or Shria. On a website someplace. Maybe one for memories of the school or whatever. Only strangers writing books.

BBM. I agree. I haven't seen one word from the bus driver, current school teacher, friends...absolutely nothing. Granted, I am new to the case (only 11 at time incident), but I have done a lot of research/reading, and I haven't seen one word. Very strange. I have seen where a mailman was supposedly the last person to have seen Etan that morning, yet I have not seen anything stating what he saw Etan doing, where exactly he was, etc. It is leading me to believe none of these people were interviewed. And if not, why?

Oh, I was wondering about the $10,000 that Ramos apparently had. Since I have seen it reported he had been a mental patient at one time, could this money have been from Social Security disablity insurance backpay or some other lawsuit settlement? Maybe it is just me, but from what I have seen and read, Ramos did not strike me as being very intelligent. Especially intelligent enough to pull of such a perfect crime. He just strikes me as a John Mark Karr type of guy....someone just wanting attention and likes to talk. The type that admits to a murder just for the notoriety. I really wish we had privy to all the people LE interviewed to see if anyone was missed. Sadly, some of those people are probably not still living to be interviewed again.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

BBM. I agree. I haven't seen one word from the bus driver, current school teacher, friends...absolutely nothing. Granted, I am new to the case (only 11 at time incident), but I have done a lot of research/reading, and I haven't seen one word. Very strange. I have seen where a mailman was supposedly the last person to have seen Etan that morning, yet I have not seen anything stating what he saw Etan doing, where exactly he was, etc. It is leading me to believe none of these people were interviewed. And if not, why?

.

It would be an entire school full of children - their brothers and sisters, parents sitting around a breakfast table every morning with a carton of milk with either their missing classmate - their friend's little missing brother photo with them. Hard to believe it did not have an effect to where they might make a statement. Even when Kim Jong Ills kid came into power some guy came forward and said they were classmates in high school years ago - in France or somewhere I think.

Regarding the money - It was reported he was ex-Military as well. LE never stated where the money came from and the 10000$ figure is what he told some guy he had. So not sure if LE verified the amount.

 

[karen7868]

It would be an entire school full of children - their brothers and sisters, parents sitting around a breakfast table every morning with a carton of milk with either their missing classmate - their friend's little missing brother photo with them. Hard to believe it did not have an effect to where they might make a statement. Even when Kim Jong Ills kid came into power some guy came forward and said they were classmates in high school years ago - in France or somewhere I think.

Regarding the money - It was reported he was ex-Military as well. LE never stated where the money came from and the 10000$ figure is what he told some guy he had. So not sure if LE verified the amount.

You are right. I remember it now that he was ex-military, so to me, there are several things that could explain the money. I am going to have to research that some more.

But like you, I still find it hard to believe not one person has come forward about personally knowing Etan, nor the Patz family for that matter. Very odd. The only person that I have seen mentioned is the lady (neighbor) that wrote the book and then screenplay for the movie "Without a Trace" starring Kate Nelligan and Judd Hirsh that was based on Etan Patz. And apprently this woman met with Julie Patz and had lunch and basically interviewed her without her knowing it was because she was writing a book. Apprently Mrs. Patz just thought they were having lunch. What a great family friend she turned out to be.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

This photo was taken July 2006.

So Shira would be 35 and Ari 29.

http://www.patz.com/Family/images/DadShiraAri.jpg.html

 

[karen7868]

This photo was taken July 2006.

So Shira would be 35 and Ari 29.

http://www.patz.com/Family/images/DadShiraAri.jpg.html

Thanks for posting this. Shira looks so much like her mom. I bet Etan would look a lot like Ari as an adult. I admit I googled Ari and came across his facebook photo, but could not find a current photo of Shira. I think Ari is very handsome.

It is hard to believe Etan would be 40 this year.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

The only person that I have seen mentioned is the lady (neighbor) that wrote the book and then screenplay for the movie "Without a Trace" starring Kate Nelligan and Judd Hirsh that was based on Etan Patz. And apprently this woman met with Julie Patz and had lunch and basically interviewed her without her knowing it was because she was writing a book. Apprently Mrs. Patz just thought they were having lunch. What a great family friend she turned out to be.

Aww. I did not know that. How hurtful. Someone named Lisa Cohen posted that she wrote a book about Etan. In her post it says something about being the cousin of Etan - but she is not the cousin of Etan - she was conveying a letter from the Patz family. It was very unclear though. She has worked for news agencies and covered the case for over 20 years. I am sure the book is very good - she had access to the family. But I am unsure why she included the part I have been looking for my cousin Etan in the first person - like it was herself.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Thanks for posting this. Shira looks so much like her mom. I bet Etan would look a lot like Ari as an adult. I admit I googled Ari and came across his facebook photo, but could not find a current photo of Shira. I think Ari is very handsome.

It is hard to believe Etan would be 40 this year.

That is the Father of the Patz children's brother website. Shira is only in that 1 photo. In one of the articles - the Father of Etan is giving interview at home and the phone rings. It is Shira calling from another room in the home saying not to do interviews. Very private.

Aw forever 6 and 40 all at the same time is hard to comprehend. He is older than me if he can be alive. They have not found him - it can be possible. Yes I think you are right - he would look much like his brother.

 

[karen7868]

Just came across this article. I know from the playgroup pictures I have seen, Yukie Ohta is in the photos, so it looks like Etan was a member of the playgroup. My question is, did any of these kids remember Ramos or Miller?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/etan_patz_disappearance_set_of.html

Quote from article:

Yukie Ohta, now 43, remembers police coming to her door to talk to her about the boy's disappearance. Her sister had gone to a child's play group with Etan, in the very basement police are searching. By the time he disappeared, the children's collective had moved and the space was being used by a handyman.

"I didn't really know anything helpful," Ohta said.

No one knew enough. Etan's parents, Stan and Julie, offered a $25,000 reward for information leading to the boy's whereabouts, and sightings were frequently reported, to no avail. In 1986, a child resembling Etan was spotted in Israel, which prompted detectives to circulate his photo there. Nothing came of it.