Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 9

[Foxfire]

This got me thinking and reading up a little bit on narcissism. Came across a couple interesting articles:

http://www.winning-teams.com/recognizenarcissist.html
(This article has to do with the narcissist in the work place, but has some interesting perspectives)
"he (or she) spends all of his time acting, protecting his ego by presenting to the world a mask, a false image of himself. As a result he becomes a master of deceit."

"Researchers have found that a narcissist reacts much more emotionally than a non-narcissist, sometimes with "narcissistic rage" when his (or her) ego is threatened."

"Because of a propensity to internalize failure, the narcissist's emotional response to failure is to feel shame, as opposed to guilt felt by people without the disorder. So in order to avoid shame, which the narcissist feels must be avoided at all costs, he externalizes blame for negative events.Ref As he feels someone must be guilty, he almost always attributes blame to others."

"Narcissistic rage, character assassination and projection are some of the overt ways in which the narcissist expresses himself. "

"They expect others to do the day-to-day chores as they feel too important to waste their time on common things. "

http://samvak.tripod.com/9.html#more
(the topic of this article is "Can the Narcissist become Violent?")

"Narcissists often use verbal and psychological abuse and violence against those closest to them."

"Narcissists live in a state of constant rage, repressed aggression, envy and hatred. They firmly believe that everyone is like them. As a result, they are paranoid, suspicious, scared and erratic. Frightening the narcissist is a powerful behavior modification tool. "
(keep reading..it gets better!)

'Psychos and their ability to hide behind their evil Masks of Normalcy'...

As in any culture, or in any community spread across this great nation, there are those who refuse or are unable to adapt to a civilized society, skirting the rules and laws that guide the rest of us through life. Fortunately they are the exception rather than the rule. Due to their selfish need to fulfill their evil desires and sexual fantasies, their lack of empathy for others, as well as their self assurance of remaining anonymous and stealth. They have a chameleon -like ability of hiding behind their masks of normalcy (at least in the darkness of their minds). Their actions are unpredictable and they will often times resort to the unimaginable, or unconscionable..

These narcissistic psychopathic predators, who know no boundaries of sanity, prey on unsuspecting innocent victims. Many of these predators hone their skills with each innocent victim devoured, increasing confidence and causing escalation.
Although, most of these predators have an uncanny ability to shield their motives, their expressionless face, hiding behind their fake smiles, combined with their lifeless eyes, cannot conceal this lie from those who know their traits, signs, and motives.

The only effective weapon that we all posses to identify them, is detection: Be cautious, adhere to personal safety rules, and 'Trust your Natural Born Instincts'...

 

[zwiebel]

I just don't believe that someone wouldn't check every room in the house and maybe the cellar, garden and even attic too, before panicking and reporting a loved one missing. And certainly do it after it was established they WERE missing. I'd comb every room for clues.....or my spouse lying injured somewhere.

 

[Foxfire]

I changed my caretaker tag, to avoid any confusion.

Caregiver, may be more appropriate, zwiebel..

 

[Caring4Many]

I don't think I would have involved the kids at that point -- I wouldn't have wanted to scare them.

What I would assume for the first couple hours (as did her parents, apparently) would be that:
a) Her phone battery had run out, and
b) She'd gotten over-involved in Christmas shopping and forgot to leave early enough to avoid Syracuse rush-hour traffic

I wouldn't have started getting worried until around 8 or 8:30, and then my main concern would have been that she'd slipped off the road in the rain, or hit a deer or something. I would have called highway patrol or police or someone at that point to ask them to check the route.

Taking them for a drive wouldn't have involved telling them anything scary. "Kids it's been a long day working at home I feel like going for a drive." However if he was really as "freaked out" as it sounded-he was probably already scaring the children at home with the idea that their mom wasn't home yet I stead of any other rational options. At least if they were in the car looking they would have the idea that he wanted her found. I honestly don't think at any point the kids were his concern unless it made him look good.

 

[LolaAngelina]

I have a suggestion for posters - this is not a rule by any means but would make it easier for many here that are reading.

Please read up to date prior to answering questions that have already been answered (sometimes more than once) - if you have read to the end of the thread prior to answering - more than likely you don't need to answer as it has already been done.

Just trying to save time and unnecessary postings.

:goodpost:

 

[Caring4Many]

I just don't believe that someone wouldn't check every room in the house and maybe the cellar, garden and even attic too, before panicking and reporting a loved one missing. And certainly do it after it was established they WERE missing. I'd comb every room for clues.....or my spouse lying injured somewhere.

Agreed -I get the idea of not wanting to sleep in their room without her-but FIRST I'd want to look for anything that may tell me-was my sig. other in trouble? Was there something they were afraid to tell me? Etc I'd be looking in every room of the house-especially if I truly thought they left me(which I never believed),where'd they go? I'd want them back to answer to my children-tell the kids, themselves they were leaving & why. I'd think my kids at least deserve that. So basically my point is-no room unturned & I'd be asking others to help me!

 

[Abigail]

Caregiver, may be more appropriate, zwiebel..

I like that...it really sums up the relationship, as most of the people who do this job, are in it because they really do CARE about other folks. I have been blessed to meet some real angels in this line of work.

 

[Abigail]

Agreed -I get the idea of not wanting to sleep in their room without her-but FIRST I'd want to look for anything that may tell me-was my sig. other in trouble? Was there something they were afraid to tell me? Etc I'd be looking in every room of the house-especially if I truly thought they left me(which I never believed),where'd they go? I'd want them back to answer to my children-tell the kids, themselves they were leaving & why. I'd think my kids at least deserve that. So basically my point is-no room unturned & I'd be asking others to help me!

Me too...I certainly wouldn't have avoided going into her bedroom or bathroom -- that's the FIRST place I'd go to try to figure out what happened. (Well, I guess the second place -- I'd be out on the roads during the daytime, when the kids were in school, like her Dad, tracing her possible route and trying to spot her van -- in the event it went off the road somewhere). But, when I was in the home, I'd be going through her drawers and combing her personal stuff from top to bottom to try to find some sort of clue. I'd be going through her emails and postings on FB and her game (but I most certainly would NOT have deleted anything). And...I'd be calling LE at least once a day to find out if they've found out anything and to press them get a search going.

 

[Bettylou4you]

Me too...I certainly wouldn't have avoided going into her bedroom or bathroom -- that's the FIRST place I'd go to try to figure out what happened. (Well, I guess the second place -- I'd be out on the roads during the daytime, when the kids were in school, like her Dad, tracing her possible route and trying to spot her van -- in the event it went off the road somewhere). But, when I was in the home, I'd be going through her drawers and combing her personal stuff from top to bottom to try to find some sort of clue. I'd be going through her emails and postings on FB and her game (but I most certainly would NOT have deleted anything). And...I'd be calling LE at least once a day to find out if they've found out anything and to press them get a search going.

If his immediate reaction was that she ran away, and that is what he told the police; wouldn't you want some tangible proof like her toiletries were gone and at least some of her clothes? Wouldn't the first thing you would do would be rush in to the bathroom and the closet to see? Instead he makes some claim she ran off with an internet lover without taking a hairbrush or a pair of shoes? And why would she not have taken the lingerie he claimed was part of it all?

 

[Foxfire]

If his immediate reaction was that she ran away, and that is what he told the police; wouldn't you want some tangible proof like her toiletries were gone and at least some of her clothes? Wouldn't the first thing you would do would be rush in to the bathroom and the closet to see? Instead he makes some claim she ran off with an internet lover without taking a hairbrush or a pair of shoes? And why would she not have taken the lingerie he claimed was part of it all?

'Seems, the only thing missing was Jennifer Ramsaran, and the truth, huh'?

 

[Abigail]

I just keep thinking about the parallels between this case and Drew Peterson, and then got to thinking about if a certain person had taken on the Stacy Peterson missing person case if she would have given that one similar treatment. I could just see her saying, "Well, we can't know that foul play was involved. She might still be out there, needing to take a break and think about her life."

 

[MissieMt]

It wasn't my impression. I think GR does have a warm relationship with his kids that includes give and take of physical affection. Before his FB page went down, there were shots of the kids draped over him (and similar shots of the kids with Jenn). It appeared that the entire family was affectionate with each other.

I think it's more like what one of the other posters mentioned -- that the odd wording "we actually hugged" was due to a "truth break" in a fabricated narrative.

Let's remember that a person doesn't have to be a monster all the time to be able to kill. Some murderers are quite charming, quite fun, quite likeable, and have a circle of loyal friends. A murderer can love his kids and be more or less a decent person, and yet still murder. Some people have the capacity to "compartmentalize" their lives or to dissociate themselves from horrible actions, to the point that they deceive even themselves.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the above bolded statement. How many pictures someone may have on fb of them and their children being affectionate is hardly a measure of how things truly are in their lives. I love my babies more than life itself. Even my soon to be 13 yr old son still holds my hand and hugs me in public, just because it is what he knows to be normal. He thinks other boys his age who won't hug their Mom in public are mean. But out of the hundreds of pictures I have of my babies on my private fb, I only have one or two pictures of me with them. I've also seen close friends and family who are absolutely not affectionate to their kids or each other pull off the "perfect family" pose. It's like how many people have learned how to pose and hold the camera in the perfect way so that they appear more attractive and/or thin in their profile pics, FB allows you to present to people only what you want them to see. It's the perfect tool for story telling.

 

[Caring4Many]

If his immediate reaction was that she ran away, and that is what he told the police; wouldn't you want some tangible proof like her toiletries were gone and at least some of her clothes? Wouldn't the first thing you would do would be rush in to the bathroom and the closet to see? Instead he makes some claim she ran off with an internet lover without taking a hairbrush or a pair of shoes? And why would she not have taken the lingerie he claimed was part of it all?

Except that were all thinking what we'd do if we all had -one thought-if she had left or if she were in trouble. Problem with all of our "statements" is that he didn't have the initial "She left me & the kids" right away, remember? At first he had no hope she was coming home. Then it was that she had left him & her kids.

 

[Abigail]

Keep thinking about parallels between GR and Drew Peterson. Came across this article, titled "Masks of Sanity"
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ting-disguised-personality-disorders-part-two

Just a few snippets:
"But I would suggest that the sociopathic conscience is--like the deeper feelings belonging to their long-denied and dissociated true self--still present, but frozen deep beneath the thick, cold ice of the defensive false self. This is why some defendants seem so unperturbed about their evil deeds and the disastrous negative consequences. It is precisely what makes them such charming, charismatic and diabolically convincing con artists, manipulators and liars. And, in some cases, cold-blooded killers."

"How can such exceptional liars be detected? How can these superbly skilled actors be unmasked? Even highly trained and experienced forensic psychologists and psychiatrists are sometimes taken in and fooled by these impressive individuals, some of whom can even fool a polygraph examination. "

"Our naive inability or unwillingness to perceive disguised evil is precisely what such severely pathological personalities prey upon."

 

[zwiebel]

Can anyone link me to the complete 'list' if there is one? I've only seen bits and haven't had the stomach to ask to see more yet. I know I should though. Is it as bad as I think it's going to be?

 

[Caring4Many]

Can anyone link me to the complete 'list' if there is one? I've only seen bits and haven't had the stomach to ask to see more yet. I know I should though. Is it as bad as I think it's going to be?

Unless you can find it copied in previous threads-it's gone. LNM has deleted it from the JR blog post page they have.

 

[Hexe]

Something that keeps bothering me. It was said at the beginning that the day Jen went missing, GR prepared the kids to school and drove them there, while Jennifer was still in bed. And she was in bed when they were leaving when the kids saw her for the last time. Anyone remembers who stated it?

But from what POB wrote it seems Jen was the one who was doing the morning chores around the kids. So why that sudden change of habit? Is it just an attempt of painting GR as a model dad, or there was something wrong happening already?

 

[horsenaround60]

https://www.facebook.com/seeking.thelost.news/posts/139238459564978
Scroll down and read the next to last post! This may shed some light onto why GR thought that she had run off! Hope its ok to post this link.

 

[Caring4Many]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the above bolded statement. How many pictures someone may have on fb of them and their children being affectionate is hardly a measure of how things truly are in their lives. I love my babies more than life itself. Even my soon to be 13 yr old son still holds my hand and hugs me in public, just because it is what he knows to be normal. He thinks other boys his age who won't hug their Mom in public are mean. But out of the hundreds of pictures I have of my babies on my private fb, I only have one or two pictures of me with them. I've also seen close friends and family who are absolutely not affectionate to their kids or each other pull off the "perfect family" pose. It's like how many people have learned how to pose and hold the camera in the perfect way so that they appear more attractive and/or thin in their profile pics, FB allows you to present to people only what you want them to see. It's the perfect tool for story telling.

Attempting not to over reply & take over the feed here. But wanted to add MissieMt, that having the photos is one thing, but the looks on their faces in said photos is another. I recall a photo of JR with all 3 kids-which could say it was a fun filled event-until you looked at the expressions on faces. Made you think twice.

On the other topic-a friend of a family member has a FB that is "for show" so to speak. Even their status & comments to others are fake. Not a word on the page rings true. They are an extremely unhappy person but embarrassed for anyone to see it. You'd never know the difference had they not been caught "in the act."

 

[JTKirk]

https://www.facebook.com/seeking.thelost.news/posts/139238459564978
Scroll down and read the next to last post! This may shed some light onto why GR thought that she had run off! Hope its ok to post this link.

It's eery that Jen was found the very next day after those posts.:silenced: