NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

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Deelytful1, I think you confirmed this killers signature with the urban dictionary definition of Burlap Sister. It sure doesn't paint a pretty picture does it?

goathairjones, Wow! Great find! Yep MP was pimping, IMO. Something went on at JB's house that freaked SG out. I detest thinking of what could have happened inside that house. Sounds like MP should be investigated. I wondered all along if he was actually an employee of JB. MOO

I am so glad to see this thread active again!

OT Been away for a while watching the Anthony trial. I've missed you all!

wm
 
deelytful1 said:
Concerning the victims in the burlap sacks.... 2 things (and forgive me if this has been said already) Firstly, in "urban slang" a "burlap sister" is a prostitute or *advertiser censored*:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Burlap Sister&defid=5258648
The SK may have been trying to make a statement.

and Secondly, I've read some posts where people are saying that burlap sacks are not easy to come by or related only to farming, etc. Well, just a few years ago, I helped organize our company picnic and bought a slew of burlap sacks for our potaato sack race. I ordered them from a "kid" website selling party equipment.. so, not so hard to get.

Thanks for all your work on this case. I am hungrily reading everything! I hope an answer comes soon!
Click to expand...

re: burlap sacks

The fact is though, burlap sacks are not common, nor are they easy to come by, ( as evidenced by they way you had to purchase them).
Every garage or basement in America has trash bags, rubbermaid totes, laundry totes, most people have a suitcase, satchle, knap sack, a lot of people have tarps. These are the things one normally hears of bodies being in.
In all my years I can't think of one time I've ever seen a burlap sack in a friend or nieghbors garage. It's not like they're on the shelf in a supermarket or Wal Mart like the other items I've mentioned.

The only time I've seen burlap sacks is with horse people, farmers & as you mentioned - kids sack races. I know landscapers use rolls of burlap for holding soil in place on slopes until grass grows & for wrapping tree & bush root balls.

All n all, burlap is fairly unusual & uncommon in this day & age. It certainly was the one thing about this whole situation that stuck out for me.

Quick question - is it know for a fact whether it was burlap 'sacks' or were the remains 'rolled' in burlap. I think the difference would matter. Sorry if this has been delt with already - I've a long way to go to catch up to the rest of you on this case !
 
The Oak Beach Assn apparently has a sack race for children each year at one of their events. There was a photo on their web page. IDK if it is still there or if anyone got a screen capture of it. There may be a pic of it in the case archives album but I am very behind after taking a break.

Rumor Alert

Someone claimed on the LISK site (IIRC) that burlap sacks were stored in a storage shed at the entrance to the neighborhood where SG went missing. Dr H. is/was a member of the OBA board. Dr. H is one of the neighbors who saw SG the night she went missing when she ran to his door for help.

MOO something is weird about that neighborhood!

wm

ETA downport, I don't recall LE confirming where it was burlap sacks or burlap wrap the bodies were found in. I've read both in MSM articles.
 
waltzingmatilda said:
The Oak Beach Assn apparently has a sack race for children each year at one of their events. There was a photo on their web page. IDK if it is still there or if anyone got a screen capture of it. There may be a pic of it in the case archives album but I am very behind after taking a break.

Rumor Alert

Someone claimed on the LISK site (IIRC) that burlap sacks were stored in a storage shed at the entrance to the neighborhood where SG went missing. Dr H. is/was a member of the OBA board. Dr. H is one of the neighbors who saw SG the night she went missing when she ran to his door for help.

MOO something is weird about that neighborhood!

wm

ETA downport, I don't recall LE confirming where it was burlap sacks or burlap wrap the bodies were found in. I've read both in MSM articles.
Click to expand...


( sorry for the questions )

re: Dr H
What type of "Dr" is he ? A medical Dr or a Phd ? I would think LE would know imediatly if the dismembering was precision or 'hacked'. There is a photo on one of the threads of the mutilated tatoo of one of the Manorville victims ( can't remember where I saw that yesterday, maybe it was the LI Press article), & it doesn't look like it was done with any type of precision, IMO.
I recall a picture of the Dr in Newsday when Ms Gilbert went missing & he seemed to be elderly. Do we k ow how old he is ?

re: burlap
I think 'sacks' or 'rolls' is important. A poster in another thread mentioned perhaps the killer is a utility/municipal worker & thus their vehicle wouldn't draw attention if parked on the side of the road. There could then be a conection between burlap 'rolls' & a town or county parks employee or maybe a highway employee.

re: MSM
what does that mean ? Main stream media ?

re: LISK web site
I've checked that out briefly but something about it gives me a serious case of the willies ! Is it just me, lol ? Does anyone know who created it ? Idk, something about it was just creepy to me.

1 more thing - there's a whole lot of "weird" neighborhoods on Long Island !
 
downport said:
( sorry for the questions )

re: Dr H
What type of "Dr" is he ? A medical Dr or a Phd ? I would think LE would know imediatly if the dismembering was precision or 'hacked'. There is a photo on one of the threads of the mutilated tatoo of one of the Manorville victims ( can't remember where I saw that yesterday, maybe it was the LI Press article), & it doesn't look like it was done with any type of precision, IMO.
I recall a picture of the Dr in Newsday when Ms Gilbert went missing & he seemed to be elderly. Do we k ow how old he is ? I am not sure what type of Dr he is. He still has his medical license, IIRC. Others have researched him more than I so maybe others can chime in. He is elderly and has a wooden leg from what I understand. Oddly, SG's family received a 'courtesy' phone call the day after she disappeared from someone who claimed to be a DR who ran a clinic to try and help wayward women and she ran off.

re: burlap
I think 'sacks' or 'rolls' is important. A poster in another thread mentioned perhaps the killer is a utility/municipal worker & thus their vehicle wouldn't draw attention if parked on the side of the road. There could then be a conection between burlap 'rolls' & a town or county parks employee or maybe a highway employee. I agree. In some of the maps our wonderful mappers have posted clearly show a white utility type truck parked on the side of the road in Gilgo Beach.

re: MSM
what does that mean ? Main stream media ? Yes

re: LISK web site
I've checked that out briefly but something about it gives me a serious case of the willies ! Is it just me, lol ? Does anyone know who created it ? Idk, something about it was just creepy to me.

Yes, I think it is creepy too. I was on there one day and my computer shut down. I haven't visited since.

1 more thing - there's a whole lot of "weird" neighborhoods on Long Island !
Click to expand...
LOL! As are neighborhoods on NC barrier islands.

downport, my answers above in red. I hope some of our other sleuths can correct me or add to my posts. As I stated, I have been away for 6 weeks following the Anthony trial so I have a bit of catching up to do myself. I am signing off for awhile to color my hair as I have a grey streak after watching that trial, lol. See you all later.:seeya:
wm
 
downport said:
re: burlap sacks

The fact is though, burlap sacks are not common, nor are they easy to come by, ( as evidenced by they way you had to purchase them).
Every garage or basement in America has trash bags, rubbermaid totes, laundry totes, most people have a suitcase, satchle, knap sack, a lot of people have tarps. These are the things one normally hears of bodies being in.
In all my years I can't think of one time I've ever seen a burlap sack in a friend or nieghbors garage. It's not like they're on the shelf in a supermarket or Wal Mart like the other items I've mentioned.

The only time I've seen burlap sacks is with horse people, farmers & as you mentioned - kids sack races. I know landscapers use rolls of burlap for holding soil in place on slopes until grass grows & for wrapping tree & bush root balls.

All n all, burlap is fairly unusual & uncommon in this day & age. It certainly was the one thing about this whole situation that stuck out for me.

Quick question - is it know for a fact whether it was burlap 'sacks' or were the remains 'rolled' in burlap. I think the difference would matter. Sorry if this has been delt with already - I've a long way to go to catch up to the rest of you on this case !
Click to expand...

My personal take is that they were burlap sheets. LE has said that the bodies were "wrapped in burlap". I do not believe they were burlap sacks but I could be wrong.

PS - Burlap is definitely not something that you would buy off the shelf at Home Depot or Lowes. It's funny because I had two small burlap bags in a shed that I recently cleaned out but I have no idea where I got them from. I used them to carry firewood and kindling in them when we used to go camping. But I can't remember how I got them. That's so weird.
 
Hi everyone,

I thought this was interesting, on the LISK site people talking about psychic phenomenon. But check out the 14th reply. Not to dwell on flukeyou, but he has some serious animosity toward the Dr. Very curious. Sorry to post a link to the creepy site!

http://longislandserialkiller.com/2011/07/brooke-3/

Downport, I think the Dr. Is retired....he use to work with LE. I saw his wife talking with a reporter, a video online. She was not happy with people questioning him. But I would be protective of my husband,too. There are so many unanswered questions about this case...obviously, but the more I read the more questions I have.

Osteopath:
http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-charles-hackett-y9mcy.cfm

Does any one remember the info about another doctor who moved away soon after the bodies were found? I'm searching but can't find it. I know I read something about that up here a few threads ago.
 
Here are my thoughts on some of the questions raised above.

To answer some of downports questions: I believe LE verified that Shannan had at least one date prior to her date with JB that night and that MP drove to that appt. The john has been interviewed and apparently cleared. So I believe the 2:00 arrival at JB's verified by LE is correct.

Regarding the burlap bags. As far as we know only 4 were used. There are 10 threads now on this case and much meticulous research. It is probably a good idea to read the past information as many rumors and false information has been put to rest and there is no need to rehash these again. Although burlap bags may seem rare, posters thought of many circumstances in which they are used and by many people. Farmers, gardeners, the Oak Beach sack races, fishermen. A poster found a blog where Karen Gambino was offering burlap sacks to anyone who might have a use for them. There is flukeyou's claim that a pile of them was kept at the gatehouse or a shed near the gatehouse and these have now disappeared. There are so many possibilities it is probably not that useful to track all the burlap sources down except maybe burlap sheets or burlap sacks that can be cut to special size. Someone here said rolls are available at Home Depot. My thought on that is the SK might find that too risky, making him too conspicuous. I carefully read many news reports about the girls being wrapped in burlap and concluded LE is being careful not to say whether it was sacks or they were rolled in sheets. I believe that is something they are holding back for false confessions.

Flukeyou claims that Gus Coletti had ties to John Gotti, was his "fireworks man" whatever that means, and that some time ago there was an explosion at his house.

Medical licensing information on Dr CPH indicates he is 55 years old. I do not consider that "elderly" and when I was 55 I would have resembled that remark! There was another doctor who sold his house and moved away in July of 2010 (this date needs checking). I don't believe he has been mentioned in MSM, and if not, we cannot discuss him here.

The LISK site is getting a lot of comments now. Yes it is spooky. Several regular posters are saying the SK is posting on the site and that comments are being carried back and forth between WS and LISK. :eek: So the plot thickens. If anyone finds some of my facts incorrect, please let me know, but I do not want to argue over speculation please.
 
To add to Redbird's info, I had previously posted that GC is the contact for the Nassau Suffolk pigeon fanciers (racers?) and burlap is used in pigeon coops. I can't recall who responded that one of the sheds on GC's property appears to be a pigeon coop. Would make sense, given his involvement with the club. Would be interesting to know where the LI pigeon fanciers obtain their burlap, whether sacks or rolls.

I'd be interested in knowing when flukeyou made the claim about a GC connection to J. Gotti. I have seen the Coletti surname in relation to JG, but not necessarily GC himself, and can't find anything yet on GC to determine his specific genealogy. FWIW (and I haven't made any connections here), there is a JG line of pitbulls that crops up in discussions related to Razors Edge and Remy Line pitbulls. My impression is that the Remy Line claims superiority to both the Gotti and Razors Edge pitbulls.

WRT "fireworks man", I would interpret that to mean someone who specializes in pyrotechnics.
 
sillybilly said:
To add to Redbird's info, I had previously posted that GC is the contact for the Nassau Suffolk pigeon fanciers (racers?) and burlap is used in pigeon coops. I can't recall who responded that one of the sheds on GC's property appears to be a pigeon coop. Would make sense, given his involvement with the club. Would be interesting to know where the LI pigeon fanciers obtain their burlap, whether sacks or rolls.

I'd be interested in knowing when flukeyou made the claim about a GC connection to J. Gotti. I have seen the Coletti surname in relation to JG, but not necessarily GC himself, and can't find anything yet on GC to determine his specific genealogy. FWIW (and I haven't made any connections here), there is a JG line of pitbulls that crops up in discussions related to Razors Edge and Remy Line pitbulls. My impression is that the Remy Line claims superiority to both the Gotti and Razors Edge pitbulls.

WRT "fireworks man", I would interpret that to mean someone who specializes in pyrotechnics.
Click to expand...

WRT "Fireworks man" - John Gotti would have a huge block party every 4th of July in Howard Beach, Queens, NY. At that party, there would be an amazing professional-level fireworks display. GC may have been responsible for getting the firework for the block party.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/07/05/nyregion/defying-fireworks-ban-gotti-party-erupts.html
 
Great link goathairjones! Any idea what happened to the fireworks and party? Interesting about the neighborhood's perspective that Gotti is a hero.

Sillybilly, I tried to find GC's genealogy, too. There was a mobster, Jim Coletti in Denver - no connection, that I found. I found a couple people that may have been GC's parents, from Patchogue. But no connection apparent to mob.

I didn't realize the Gotti's raised pitbulls. That is interesting. I'd also like to know more about the pigeon burlap.
 
sillybilly said:
To add to Redbird's info, I had previously posted that GC is the contact for the Nassau Suffolk pigeon fanciers (racers?) and burlap is used in pigeon coops. I can't recall who responded that one of the sheds on GC's property appears to be a pigeon coop. Would make sense, given his involvement with the club. Would be interesting to know where the LI pigeon fanciers obtain their burlap, whether sacks or rolls.

I'd be interested in knowing when flukeyou made the claim about a GC connection to J. Gotti. I have seen the Coletti surname in relation to JG, but not necessarily GC himself, and can't find anything yet on GC to determine his specific genealogy. FWIW (and I haven't made any connections here), there is a JG line of pitbulls that crops up in discussions related to Razors Edge and Remy Line pitbulls. My impression is that the Remy Line claims superiority to both the Gotti and Razors Edge pitbulls.

WRT "fireworks man", I would interpret that to mean someone who specializes in pyrotechnics.
Click to expand...

I simply don't buy the mob connection theory that's being mentioned on LISK. The closest thing I can possibly imagine to a mob theory is that our SK might have been involved in some sort of business that perhaps had a mob client-but that's not all that uncommon in NY. I mean, if I own a bakery, and someone who has mob ties comes in and buys a muffin, then I guess an argument could be made that I do business with the mob (not a credible argument, but I could see someone with more creative thinking making that argument). I don't see mob-types as serial killers. Their killings are almost always "business-related". This is the work of a stereotypical sadist SK IMO.

The comments about Gotti on that site are interesting. Like someone has previously said, I think that GC might have had a business setting up fireworks shows and perhaps was hired by Gotti for a party at one time or another. It doesn't mean that he's in the mob (see my bakery example above) IMO. The pitbull thing is weird though. Victim Jessica Taylor had that tattoo "Remy's Angel" which was thought to be pitbull-related. Now that is just either a weird coincidence or perhaps the pitbull thing needs to be looked at more closely. Did any of the other victims (or their boyfriends/pimps) have any connections to the world of pitbull breeding?

The burlap wrap is also kind of interesting. I know that there are many who use it for clamming on LI, but maybe pigeon racers need to be considered too. Pigeon racing is quite common in NY and among older Italian-Americans. My great uncle, who is 100% Italian, is really into pigeon-keeping and he lives in California. This is common among many old-school Italians. I don't know how the burlap comes into use with pigeons and whether it is sacks or wrap that they're using (I'll have to ask my father if he knows what my uncle's using with his pigeons). Maybe our SK comes from a family that has pigeons? He could have an older relative who keeps pigeons and could be taking the burlap from his pigeon-keeping relative. If LE would release more details, then it would be far more productive. If I'm an old guy who keeps pigeons, and I've noticed that my burlap supplies have mysteriously disappeared, and I happen to have a strange neighbor or perhaps a son or nephew who's always in trouble, I might be willing to go to the police if I knew that something that was similar to my stolen goods was found at the scene. It's worth mentioning, IMO, even though I'm sure the majority of people out there would be hesitant to report their family members; but it's worth it because of that .0001% of people among us who would do the right thing.
 
I went to the spooky site and didn't get shut down. There sure are some interesting comments, eh?

Has anyone checked out clammers on LI? A fellow sleuth and I looked at this angle and found some interesting stuff and backed off because we got spooked! We can't discuss it here anyway but if it comes to be that we were on the right track I'll give this other sleuth the credit she/he deserves for the excellent sleuthing.

One thing that I found very interesting during our sleuthing is that one employee of a clamming company drives up and down the beaches in the afternoons to buy clams from the clammers. It would be a perfect cover, IMO.

MOO

wm
 
waltzingmatilda said:
I went to the spooky site and didn't get shut down. There sure are some interesting comments, eh?

Has anyone checked out clammers on LI? A fellow sleuth and I looked at this angle and found some interesting stuff and backed off because we got spooked! We can't discuss it here anyway but if it comes to be that we were on the right track I'll give this other sleuth the credit she/he deserves for the excellent sleuthing.

One thing that I found very interesting during our sleuthing is that one employee of a clamming company drives up and down the beaches in the afternoons to buy clams from the clammers. It would be a perfect cover, IMO.

MOO

wm
Click to expand...

I agree, WM, interesting reading over at the scary site. ; )

This article says they use burlap when catching the pigeons. Don't know if it ties in at all.....but for what it's worth:

http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/NABB/v017n02/p0053-p0059.pdf
 
susan1122 said:
A link to previous pigeon talk here on WS.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6462101&highlight=Burlap+pigeons#post6462101
Click to expand...

Thank you! Thank you!

Susan, the links are so helpful and I really appreciate them. Gosh, I didn't realize how far behind I am in the discussion!

It sounds like Goathairjones is onto something with the pigeon racing theory. Dr H being a pigeon racer himself makes him all the more suspicious, hmmm. Also, a dept of fish and wildlife officer is suspect to me but Dr. H is at the top of my list.

I just wanted to say that you rock:rocker:. I am going to read and catch up now on all I missed whilst I was watching that darned anthony trial:banghead:

wm :)

MOO
 
Another link to MP discussion. Figured I'd read this stuff before I start researching:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4403362

Interesting, scroll down to MountainKat and Carbuff (link below). MK saying why would JB have MP's number. Good question! Looks like he may have, right?!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6394905&highlight=Michael+pak#post6394905

Wow, Goathair, I just read your old post (link below). Gave me chills.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6429435&highlight=Michael+pak#post6429435

Something just occurred to me. If MP did have JB's number and has delivered prostitutes in the past, he could have noticed the isolated area where the bodies where found. If he was looking for a place like that.

waltzingmatilda said:
Thank you! Thank you!

Susan, the links are so helpful and I really appreciate them. Gosh, I didn't realize how far behind I am in the discussion!

It sounds like Goathairjones is onto something with the pigeon racing theory. Dr H being a pigeon racer himself makes him all the more suspicious, hmmm. Also, a dept of fish and wildlife officer is suspect to me but Dr. H is at the top of my list.

I just wanted to say that you rock:rocker:. I am going to read and catch up now on all I missed whilst I was watching that darned anthony trial:banghead:

wm :)

MOO
Click to expand...

Aw, Thanks WM. I was watching the trial, and gotta say, when I heard the verdict I felt like I had wasted so much time.: (. Just sad. Moo.
 
There is a very interesting conversation going in Shannan's FB group (the one that isn't public). Basically, Shannan's mom is saying that CPH admitted to calling her and that he said he only called to offer help.

Then there's some discussion of where CPH got Shannan's mom's number from (Shannan's mom claims that while CPH told LE he got the number from Shannan's boyfriend, he told her he got her number from Shannan herself "as part of his rules", and Shannan's sister said she thought CPH had initially said he got her number from MP).

Sorry if this is confusing, I'm trying to sort it out myself. Based on the conversation, it seems like some of this will be discussed on 48 Hours this Tuesday.
 
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