NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #4

[waltzingmatilda]

We have discussed the possibility of connections to the bodies found in the NM desert in the past..., a fellow sleuth sent me this link. (Thank you)

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2061344.shtml?cat=504

I'll betcha that LEA's with suspected serial killer cases across the country are following this case.

wm

 

[Peliman]

Where did you read that? Can you post a link? Because if that's true, that's VERY peculiar. No, an escort would absolutely not do that (let the client dismiss the driver!) and that would be a very big red flag to a driver as well!

I read it in a post here maybe a week ago and was asking for clarification, you can see the different answers but I asked and it was answered a page or two back. Work calls, I'll be back after midnight to follow the convo but you can see others believe the john called the driver.

I'm just seeking info at the moment.

 

[mymadori]

I've been trying to follow this case for a few days now and the one thing I keep thinking of (which makes me sick) is Snuff films?

I mean, what if, the driver was profiting from bringing new victims to the guy who did the actual snuff film and another dude (the transient guy?) does the filming. Then, they sold the videos for large money to someone/somewhere?

Perhaps part of the snuff film is telling the girl what's about to happen to her, which serves to make the film all that much more interesting (ugh this creeps me out to even think about)...you know, those people that watch those things get a rise out of the look of fear...but somehow she gets away. The john (snuffer) calls the driver and is like "Hey- you better find her, she got away and we already told her what we were up to!"... so she's running from her driver, the John and the videographer and trying to find anyone who will listen to her....

Of course the driver dude wants to tell people she's off her rocker and psycho. Because if she does manage to escape, he's going to have to try to defend himself.

Sigh. I know this is farfetched and entirely speculation, but for whatever reason, it was the first thing that came to mind when I read that her 911 call said "THEY are trying to kill me".

 

[mysteriew]

I still think the john inadvertently scared her. Imagine this fabricated conversation.

John: Have you been out here before?
SG: No. This is my first time in this area.
John: We've had other girls here. (and he repeats the names of a few missing call girls)
SG recognizes that the john has named three missing prostitutes. Perhaps she read about them in the newspaper or on the net. Perhaps she met them at a party. Perhaps they shared the same pimp.

That sets up the freak out. At that point, she knows that multiple prostitutes have been there and that they later vanished.

Now, if the john is the lone SK, he can't kill a girl who has a driver. The driver will go to the cops. So he'd have her picked up if he found out she had a driver. And we'll obviously want to find out whether any of the prostitutes whose bodies have been IDed used drivers. I would guess that is not the case.

SG knew her driver was coming to get her, and she STILL called 911. That indicates one of several possibilities:

1. She didn't think the driver would show up
2. She thought the driver would not be able to protect her
3. The driver was the person she feared
4. She feared both the john and driver

Now, let's consider what she did when the driver arrived. She fled.

Now here's the important part, folks. The driver could ID the john, and the john could ID the driver. At this point, both parties know the police are on the way. And this means that both will become part of an investigation.

Would either of them really want to escalate this by killing SG? Logic tells us NO! But someone did it. This indicates to me something else that is very important. SG had enough information to pin all of the disappearances on the person who eventually killed her. He killed her to get her to shut up.

And that leaves us back at square one. Driver or john? Or both?

This is the part that is so puzzling for me. The girl was a prostitute and witnesses reported that she appeared to be high. Which means that even if police did show up, it was even less than a he said/she said situation. She would would have had less than than zero credibility. Police most likely would have listened to what she had to say, apoligized to the accused and then taken her to jail for prositution. That is just the way it is with prostitute/drug life.

So whatever she accused them of wouldn't have mattered, unless she had access to some quick proof of wrongdoing. She almost literally would have had to present police with a dead body to make them believe her. IMO she wasn't killed because of what she saw or knew.

 

[Wondergirl]

This morning on fox news a criminal forsenic guy said he thought the killer was a clam fisherman or clammer.

I am leaning towards this line of thought. Did the criminologist say why he felt that?

What is known about the commercial/recreational fisherman in this area?

Can a local shed light on this? Could someone describe a clammer's habits for fishing?

If the SK is a clam fisherman or clammer, why would they bother going on land, why not dump in the water?

 

[scandi]

Hi, Has there been any news today? Ta

I guess not. The new articles deal with whether or not this guy was in LE and talking about LE finding body parts. I was hoping they would give more info to the public today. I see they are warning 'sex workers'. Gees

On HLN just now they say LE is planning to do a water search. Also that the child was found near an adult body.

 

[21merc7]

I am leaning towards this line of thought. Did the criminologist say why he felt that?

What is known about the commercial/recreational fisherman in this area?

Can a local shed light on this? Could someone describe a clammer's habits for fishing?

If the SK is a clam fisherman or clammer, why would they bother going on land, why not dump in the water?

Probably thought to be a fisherman b/c of the areas of the dumps and the burlap bags. The man that said it may have more info than we do.

As far as habits, wait for the locals, I have no idea. You have to travel to the sites at certain times for certain seafoods, so that is one clue.

I guess you could dump in water if no one is around, but you have to get the body to your boat. Your form of making a living, without any of the other fishermen noticing any unusual activity on your part. Also, bodies float, wash up, etc... So you don't want the hookers coming to your boat, being seen, and then floating up and her mugshot splashed across t.v.s and newspapers after having been seen with you.

JMO of course. Lol.

 

[Wondergirl]

Darn, Fox News just had something on but didn't see all of it but they will be having a retired NYC Det on, about his theory that 2 or more killers are on the loose. Also they will be having Melissa B. mother on.

It said SK Joel Ripkin was asked about this case and he said the SK is sloppy and amateur for dumping the bodies all in one area.

Also showed another Long Island SK, Robert Schulman killing 5 prostitutes in 1991-1996. Burying some at his mothers home in Hicksville. He worked at Hicksville Post Office.

BBM: Do you think it's possible that the SK is actually very smart, because they have utilized Long Island to dump the victims BECAUSE there have already been so many other SK's on LI, statistically speaking?

I mean, why would anyone think to check locations where a previous SK had disposed of his victims, what would be the odds of 2 different SK's using the same spot, afterall?

 

[burbqueen]

this whole case is interesting. hopefully they will hurry up and identify the new bodies found. I think more bodies will be found. I'm glad someone brought up the NM case. I saw that on dateline.

 

[Dee10]

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20481269,00.html?xid=rss-topheadlines

As searchers uncovered Monday what may be victims number nine and 10, fears are increasing that the Long Island serial killer may murder again.


"He's going to continue to kill because they don't stop," says Vernon Geberth, a former NYPD homicide lieutenant and author of Practical Homicide, a textbook used in police academies around the world. "Now he's got to come up with a new plan, a new location. Psychologically this is stressful for him because that was a place he would go to relive the event, act out scenarios, therefore relieving stress."

He's also "highly organized," Geberth says. "He plans these things out. He had a disposal site. He had a reason to be there in case someone did spot him. This is a high functioning individual."

 

[shadowraiths]

That message was posted by a guy whose name starts with an "M" and he was posting over at a website called "Utopiaguide" under a thread about 'Atlantic City'. He posted the message on 1/15/2010 at 12:35 pm. His join date was Nov 2009. I don't think I can copy the entire actual post by him but I will paraphrase what he said and then direct quote the important part:

"Never get tired of looking for hot girls because you never know who you are going to run into. When you find a place you are comfortable, you should stick with it. (This following is a direct quote) "I got started in Atlantic City, I was brought to a place by a foot taxi off the boardwalk. Best place I ever went to, hottest young things in there! All of the girls in there early 20's at best. Not cheap but perfect. Never found one like it on Long Island, but half the fun is in the search."

I have read a lot of his other stuff because he posted frequently. Interestingly, it has his current status as being "banned". He primarily seems to frequent massage parlors, or at least that is what he is reviewing. I do not think he is necessarilly the SK, but since he is very active in visiting massage parlors and prostitutes, and since he seems to network with a lot of other guys that seem to want to share their experiences, and since he admits to being involved in that scene in Atlantic City and Long Island, I would think he would be someone that should at least be intereviewed .... for his experiences with other John's if nothing else.

Okay, found that thread, and imho, am not sure its relevant, in that they are discussing Asian Massage Parlors, and the AC & LI vics are, thus far, white.

 

[tfrohning]

Today my theory has change after reading of the fanstic posts and theory.:waitasec:

I thinking that Shannan is not a victim of Sk. I don't think she even on LI.

Maybe that Why LE saying 2 or more killers. Meaning two different cases:maddening:

The white truck is making the most sense to me (at this time)

If the area is desolate and isolated areas has locals are saying a truck or car would have to blend in. If an animal control truck was park on the side of the road no one would questioned that. Leaving the SK very comfortable even if he seen with burlap or trash bag he be doing his job picking up road kill.

 

[NJGuy]

I'm not quite sure I agree with the theory of her recognizing that she was in a place where other girls have gone missing. I respectfully disagree for the following reasons,

The John and whoever he was partying with must have hired escorts before. I'd say nearly, if not all girls use a drive for their protection. Never once I have heard of a girl driving herself. Thus, the John's would've known a driver would be coming along. Also, I highly doubt SG would've put all the facts together about being in a place where she knew other girls went missing. Prostitutes, especially outcall girls, typically work independently, and only occasionally have maybe 1 or 2 friends in the biz.

I think whatever happened in that house scared her enough not to trust anyone, including her driver, if in fact witnesses saw her driver and not the SK. Whether it be she knew the people in that house were going to kill her, they tried to make some sort of snuff film, something happened that made her act. And prostitutes are typically very, very aware of their surroundings and usually can spot when something isn't right. But I do not think it is because she put the pieces together concerning the missing girls. I also believe the person who spoke to the neighbor and "You shouldn't have done that" after the neighbor called 911, is either under 24 hour surveillance or will be named a suspect. And I do not believe it was SG's driver. I think it was someone who was thought to be the driver.

Whatever happens, I think putting the final pieces of SG's last night together will be the key, if LE hasn't done so already and are gathering evidence, building a case, watching potential suspects etc.

 

[scandi]

I'm not quite sure I agree with the theory of her recognizing that she was in a place where other girls have gone missing. I respectfully disagree for the following reasons,

The John and whoever he was partying with must have hired escorts before. I'd say nearly, if not all girls use a drive for their protection. Never once I have heard of a girl driving herself. Thus, the John's would've known a driver would be coming along. Also, I highly doubt SG would've put all the facts together about being in a place where she knew other girls went missing. Prostitutes, especially outcall girls, typically work independently, and only occasionally have maybe 1 or 2 friends in the biz.

I think whatever happened in that house scared her enough not to trust anyone, including her driver, if in fact witnesses saw her driver and not the SK. Whether it be she knew the people in that house were going to kill her, they tried to make some sort of snuff film, something happened that made her act. And prostitutes are typically very, very aware of their surroundings and usually can spot when something isn't right. But I do not think it is because she put the pieces together concerning the missing girls. I also believe the person who spoke to the neighbor and "You shouldn't have done that" after the neighbor called 911, is either under 24 hour surveillance or will be named a suspect. And I do not believe it was SG's driver. I think it was someone who was thought to be the driver.

Whatever happens, I think putting the final pieces of SG's last night together will be the key, if LE hasn't done so already and are gathering evidence, building a case, watching potential suspects etc.

Thanks NJGuy, Wasn't it the Asian man who said "you shouldn't have done that? Would an Asian man be out of place on LI or in NJ?

 

[Grace1984]

Does anyone else think that there are girls that
may have gotten away from him?
as some of you may know- my daughter works in that business
and she enlightened me a bit this morning.
How did they get to the sk? Did they drive, take a taxi or public trans?
did he pick them up?
She told me that while girls advertise on the internet thet
can also work the track when business is slow.
She also told me of escorts do not see websites. Where the escorts put clients
that have been problematic. Theres a guy listed on one of them that tried to
strangle a girl in li on an outcall...
I dont want to list the sites but you can google escort dns list.

Maybe some good sleuthing can come of this.

 

[minazoe]

someone many years ago slipped me a mickey in a bar...then conspired to get me outside when i didn't feel well...then to wake me up he said here...snort this coke and in my drugged state I did it..but it wasn't coke...it was angel dust...

I was extremely debilitated...but I got away from him...an ambulance had to come...I was very young and it was extremely traumatic...but I feel like even an experienced drug user would be no match for the effects of this drug.

 

[carbuff]

IMO, not in Manhattan, not out in the open of Penn Station, Times Square, etc. Not even during the wee hours of the morning. Ultimately, I believe, he gets or grabs them into a vehicle and takes them to his destination where he does his filthy work-which is not necessarily where they thought they were going. They're safe or they have a fighting chance-that is, until they get into his vehicle.

Think of the Mele (accused) case-met the female victim at a Manhattan club-but he didn't drag her out of the Manhattan club in view of anyone. She walked out with him. He got her into his car, and drove her to his upstate home. Even had a pal, who had nothing to do with the murder, with him during the drive.

I didn't mean that he was whacking them over the head and dragging them off by the hair, I meant he was approaching them for their professional services so he could get them in his vehicle. Pretty much the scenario you describe.

 

[shadowraiths]

Several of the women who are murdered or missing have connections to either Penn Station in Manhattan or the transportation center in Camden NJ. I wonder if he follows them back into town, then accosts them there, where it's crowded and nobody will notice.

...or... how about a cabbie? After all, he would not only blend in but the girls would willingly get in the car. Also, it could explain how he was downtown when he made the calls to Melissa's sister. And finally, it could explain the distance between last seens and found. Anyway, just a thought.

Iow if LE has subpoena'd the ping records? Bc that would certainly give them a decent pic of their movements before disappearing... Anyway, just another thought.

 

[minazoe]

yeah...I think this guy has cash to spend and free time...he's sophisticated and will jump on the train and wander Manhattan ...

i don't get the vibe that he has the time constricts of family...

he can get around pretty good..Im not feeling him for a 9-5er....he obviously wants attention and enjoys his little phone calls....

I also feel that the phone calls eliminate any thought I had that perhaps the massage parlors were eliminating competitive free agents in the area....

I don't beleive the bodies are the result of two killers working irrespective of eachother...

 

[kwatmac]

...or... how about a cabbie? After all, he would not only blend in but the girls would willingly get in the car. Also, it could explain how he was downtown when he made the calls to Melissa's sister. And finally, it could explain the distance between last seens and found. Anyway, just a thought.

Iow if LE has subpoena'd the ping records? Bc that would certainly give them a decent pic of their movements before disappearing... Anyway, just another thought.

As someone who lives in NYC, I would say that seeing a yellow cab anywhere but in the city is very unlikely - some yellow cabs even refuse to drive you to Brooklyn, let alone Long Island. However, a car service is a possibility!