NY - Rita Tangredi, 31, and Colleen McNamee, 20, murdered, 1993-94, John Biltroff *GUILTY* - #2

[buckeye05]

The dismembering in manorville it seems served two purposes. Shock value and to hinder identification. The time span given by the prosecutor for the possible manorville victim connection was a decade prior to 2011. I take it he's talking about JD #6/2000. If this is him he's certainly not shown consistency in either the gaps between killing or the manor in which the victims were treated postmortem. The only consistency would be Gilgo beach for his later victims. If it turns out to be him the forensic countermeasures he employed worked well for him. The only escalation I see was the last 2 victims because instead of going 1-4 years between kills he only went a few months The case could be made that all ten could be related but I'm not there yet. I do stand by my belief that at least those 6, 2000-2010, and probably the male because of proximity more than anything else, were killed by the same long islander.

I was talking escalation more in terms of the MO, but that is a good point too. If Bittrolff did commit the LISK murders, it went from strangulation and bludgeoning (first two Bittrolff victims), to mutilation of the body (third Bittrolff victim), to full on dismemberment (Manorville butcher victims and possibly others), then back to strangulation and bludgeoning (the Asian male suffered blunt force trauma, and the GB4 were strangled). Looking back at other cases, this is not as unusual as one would expect. Ted Bundy, Randy Kraft, and Joel Rifkin all varied between leaving their victims intact or dismembered. Personally, I'm not sure I'm 100% behind the idea that one killer is behind all 10 victims. IMO, 8 of them are probably linked, but I have some doubts about Peaches and her baby. I can't shake the feeling that that those two were the victims of some kind of domestic incident, and happened to be disposed of at a serial killer's dumping ground.

I'm also really glad you brought up Bittrolff's forensic countermeasures. One of the biggest features of the police LISK profile, is someone who has knowledge of law enforcement techniques and knows how avoid detection. That definitely fits John Bittrolff:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-24...-killer-preying-on-prostitutes-on-long-island

"“From day one, he knew we were following him,” Leser says.
John at one point stopped at a railroad crossing and just sat there until the detectives drove past. Another day saw him make a sudden right, then an immediate button hook.
“Evasive driving,” Leser says.
John is a carpenter, and when on a job he would seek a high vantage point.
“He’d stand up on the roof, looking for us,” Leser remembers."

"That left only John, but the detectives still wanted a sample of his DNA before arresting him. He seemed to anticipate their intentions.
“I think in the back of his mind he was nervous,” Leser says. “He never discarded something personal.”
The detectives observed him drinking beer at home and hoped that he would eventually put the bottles out for recycling.
“That never happened,” Leser says. “He had tons of beer bottles. I don’t know what he did with them.”"

This makes me wonder, if the only murders Bittrolff committed were in the early 90s, why was he so on edge in 2013? Almost seems like he was concerned about something that happened more recently.

 

[LR1]

The thing abut linking JD96 with the others is that you would almost have to include peaches also because of the proximity in both time and location. That's two dismemberment's in a little over a year, both partially disposed of within two miles of each other. Another similarity between those two seems to be the tri-disposal signature. Parts found in 2 separate locations with partial remains of both still undiscovered. I guess JD96 torso could have floated away in a separate bag or peaches skull could be laying on the parkway somewhere but these earlier victims are what I'm not as confident about. As far as connecting these 3 (96-97) in with the others, in 2000 when he goes to drop off the skull and other parts from the unidentified manorville victim does he drop it near the toddler intentionally to throw off future investigations or has he no idea there's other remains sixty feet away? I think it could go either way.

 

[joesmith97]

Believe me, I know what happened under Burke/Spota, and it's disgusting. One of the worst cases of local corruption I've ever studied. There was even a point where I was starting to eye Burke as the LISK himself. But let's remember, Burke is out of the picture now, and Spota is on his way out as he is not seeking re-election. But as I said, this was a case of local corruption. We have heavy federal involvement now. With the FBI in the picture, this makes automatically claiming everything about this case is a ploy a little more dubious from this point forward.

In a nutshell: Yes, the Burke/Spota days were awful and I trust nothing that came out under them. But, they are more or less in the past now. I understand this leaves distrust, but now that a fresh look is being taken, I think it's time to stop defaulting to skepticism/conspiracy,

Buckeye, does this mean that you no longer suspect Burke is LISK? I think a lot of people (including myself) on these forums at least thought at one point think that Burke himself is LISK. What made you change your mind about him being LISK?

 

[buckeye05]

Buckeye, does this mean that you no longer suspect Burke is LISK? I think a lot of people (including myself) on these forums at least thought at one point think that Burke himself is LISK. What made you change your mind about him being LISK?

Burke is not the LISK. I have no reason to believe that he is, and I never was fully convinced to begin with. Here's my read on him. I think he's an incredibly dirty and crooked guy, who was so corrupt, he just wanted the feds to stay away from him, regardless of what they were investigating. He wasn't worried about any potential connections to the LISK case, he was worried about keeping himself out of jail since the feds were starting to focus in on the corruption going on.

One has to ask, besides the one escort claiming that she had "rough sex" with Burke in Oak Beach that involved some choking, what evidence is there? Not much at all. There was also supposed to be some "bombshell" development regarding his ties to the case, but it ended up being some doubtful tale from the escort that she thought she saw the GB4 at the party. There was nobody to back her up on this, and why wasn't it brought up initially if factual? All in all, the Burke theory just doesn't hold any water. He's a pervert and a crooked cop, but there's nothing to suggest that he's a killer.

On the other hand, John Bittrolff is a confirmed killer of prostitutes and a publicly named LISK suspect who lived near some of the dump sites, and has a lot of other circumstantial evidence associated with him that really casts a lot suspicion. Objectively, he's by far the best LISK suspect there is, hands down.

Hopefully, I've broken down the conspiracy echo chamber that this thread has become, and hopefully we can now have a real conversation about this case now that things seem to be heating up for real this time.

 

[buckeye05]

Also been thinking, whoever dumped the torsos of Jane Do #6 and Jessica Taylor deep in the Manorville woods likely had prior knowledge of the of Manorville area backroads and pine barrens. The access roads off of Halsey Manor are not something that a non-local would just stumble upon. Whoever dumped those torsos had been back there before, and may have grown up in the area.

 

[maddalena1]

Wasnt john bittrolf and his wife owners of visionary ministries? What is or was that?

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[buckeye05]

Wasnt john bittrolf and his wife owners of visionary ministries? What is or was that?

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Never heard that mentioned before, nor do I know what it is. Care to elaborate?

 

[RiceCasparr]

Never heard that mentioned before, nor do I know what it is. Care to elaborate?

Lots of talk of this earlier in the thread. Their phone number was the same number as listed on this missionary's website.

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[maddalena1]

What does vision missionaries do?

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[buckeye05]

Lots of talk of this earlier in the thread. Their phone number was the same number as listed on this missionary's website.

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Doesn't sound like something that is crucial to the investigation. I wouldn't focus too much on it.

 

[maddalena1]

Doesn't sound like something that is crucial to the investigation. I wouldn't focus too much on it.

I think it is crucial. What was vision missionaries scope of work? What kind of business operations?

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[maddalena1]

Home for wayward girls? Missing shoes from the ac4. Caller sounding drunk calling amandas sister (sounds like he had a love of beer)

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[buckeye05]

I think it is crucial. What was vision missionaries scope of work? What kind of business operations?

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But how so? One can't say it's crucial if there's no information on it, and we have no verifiable proof that it has anything to do with Bittrolff? Let's not start drawing such connections with next to no information available.

 

[buckeye05]

Home for wayward girls? Missing shoes from the ac4. Caller sounding drunk calling amandas sister (sounds like he had a love of beer)

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What? This post is all kinds of scatterbrained. AC4 is an entirely separate case altogether, and we have nothing placing Bittrolff in AC. The "home for wayward girls" was something mentioned by Hackett, who is just a strange guy who has a history of inserting himself into important investigations and events. Any ties between Hackett and Bittrolff would have to be based on pure speculation.

Let's try to think critically here people. We can do better.

 

[maddalena1]

But how so? One can't say it's crucial if there's no information on it, and we have no verifiable proof that it has anything to do with Bittrolff? Let's not start drawing such connections with next to no information available.

Are u certain that there is no connection? Im not certain that there is but why not get to the bottom of it?

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[maddalena1]

What? This post is all kinds of scatterbrained. AC4 is an entirely separate case altogether, and we have nothing placing Bittrolff in AC. The "home for wayward girls" was something mentioned by Hackett, who is just a strange guy who has a history of inserting himself into important investigations and events. Any ties between Hackett and Bittrolff would have to be based on pure speculation.

Let's try to think critically here people. We can do better.

The missing shoes are a possible connection.

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[buckeye05]

John Bittrolff was known to remove the left shoes of his victims, not both shoes as seen with the AC4. Plus, links between the GB4 and the AC4 were looked at extensively in the early stages of the investigation and none were found. I'm assuming that's still the case.

At face value, all we have here is a phone number that may or may not be tied to Bittrolff or his wife, the relevancy of which is undetermined. There is not much to dig into without further info. What we shouldn't do, is grasp at straws and try to establish links when none are really there to begin with.

One new avenue of inquiry that does seem potentially significant is establishing a link between Melissa Bathelemy, Manorville, and potentially, John Bittrolff. I'd love to hear more about that.

 

[maddalena1]

John Bittrolff was known to remove the left shoes of his victims, not both shoes as seen with the AC4. Plus, links between the GB4 and the AC4 were looked at extensively in the early stages of the investigation and none were found. I'm assuming that's still the case.

At face value, all we have here is a phone number that may or may not be tied to Bittrolff or his wife, the relevancy of which is undetermined. There is not much to dig into without further info. What we shouldn't do, is grasp at straws and try to establish links when none are really there that begin with.

I somewhat agree with what ur saying but i trust my gut telling me there is one killer and a hidden connection. I believe there is a good chance bittrolf is lisk.

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[buckeye05]

I somewhat agree with what ur saying but i trust my gut telling me there is one killer and a hidden connection. I believe there is a good chance bittrolf is lisk.

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Fair enough. I can certainly agree with the last part.

 

[Abcdefgh]

... One of the worst cases of local corruption I've ever studied. .... But as I said, this was a case of local corruption. We have heavy federal involvement now. ...

In a nutshell: Yes, the Burke/Spota days were awful and I trust nothing that came out under them. But, they are more or less in the past now. I understand this leaves distrust, but now that a fresh look is being taken, I think it's time to stop defaulting to skepticism/conspiracy,

It's nice to live in a place where there is some honest uberauthority which will guard your interests. If you are trusting the fbi in that regard you probably have not been following the news for many years, or you have not been reading with a critical mind.

The fbi does not come from 'some other area'. They were not segregated so that the fbi lived on one side of the island and locals on the other.

Throughout the whole time that Burke was operating alongside lots of other corrupt figures the fbi got report after report, complaint after complaint for year after year.

You can argue why the fbi ignored the corruption there for so long, but saying they were not aware of it is ludicrous.

And the fact that they were utterly absent morally until publicity forced them to get involved does not give them extra weight.

Those who have followed similar scenarios in various locations over the decades know how it goes. The fbi will make the minimum possible number of arrests of corrupt officials. Then a fixer comes in, Hank Schuelke is my favorite, and all of a sudden everything is explained.

I would bet heavily on the fbi assisting the Suffolk police in not producing adequate documentation of the dna, and anything else the Suffolk police need help with.

It isn't a 'conspiracy theory', it's just the truth.