NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[Jmoose]

NO EVIDENCE OF A CRIME, HOW COULD THEY TELL? THEY NEVER EVEN INVESTIGATED AS THEY SHOULD HAVE!!!! Evidence? If there was any was long gone by the time LE asked the first question. If you ask me the PR was pretty non-descript. No names? Why was the BF/F name not on the report?
Why, why, why!

I went to ADA with my dad as a despirate measure. The least LE could have done was contact the parents and question HIM and ME right away. I spent the next few days calling old classmates and telling them about SL. That perhaps the more people in the KNOW was better. The more EYES out there the better. I'm so frustrated about LE never following up. I'm sure if it was a LE person who had a daughter missing they would look under every rock and turn over every stone to find them. RIGHT? Why did the BF/F never look for SL or go back to the FAMILY? He had a some belongings at their house. Never went back for them to my knowledge. NO CONTACT AT ALL. What happened to the "LOVE".

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. I'm going to try to calm down now.

I hope your day turns out to be a good one-it's only 9:00am so there's still time!

 

[Jmoose]

You say dropped the ball, does that mean the same as they swept it under the carpet?

It means they fumbled it, they made a clumsy mistake-like a rugby knock-on! It sounds like once they screwed it up, it was too late to get evidence or find witnesses who could have potentially seen her later, or seen something happening with him. I am still not convinced they went to that movie theater just because he said so. But now, there is no way of telling!

 

[Dushi]

There is only one witness (AFAIK) to what happened between sixish and tenish that night and he isn't talking

 

[MMQC]

It means they fumbled it, they made a clumsy mistake-like a rugby knock-on! It sounds like once they screwed it up, it was too late to get evidence or find witnesses who could have potentially seen her later, or seen something happening with him. I am still not convinced they went to that movie theater just because he said so. But now, there is no way of telling!

IMO...LE was TOLD to ignor. That is again MOO, but it makes sense as LE was asked to step aside as they were influenced by someone to do so. Connected comes to mind but not in the way that word is traditionally used. Connected as in connected to local government or LE. Again MOO...Why else? Not even to interview the best friend who was contacted THAT NIGHT by BF/F. Did he send me on a wild goose chase. Knowing all along that I would find nothing? Thus establishing an alibi for himself with a time line?

As for speculation on pregnancy? Possible, but I don't think so. I was aware of a previous pregnancy but years before and not with BF/F. Just at the time when abortion was made legal. Which is the route she took back then. I seriously doubt that SL would have put herself in that situation AGAIN.

 

[rosemadderlake]

MMQC - Was her BF/F at the pool party? I don't recall if it was mentioned that he was there? Did she talk about her feelings that night, afterwards anytime, in the days following?

I am wondering more if Sylvia was angry or upset enough to confide her feelings to you (rather than any specifics...).

 

[MMQC]

MMQC - Was her BF/F at the pool party? I don't recall if it was mentioned that he was there? Did she talk about her feelings that night, afterwards anytime, in the days following?

I am wondering more if Sylvia was angry or upset enough to confide her feelings to you (rather than any specifics...).

I truly don't remember BF/F being there that night.

The word DEPRESSED comes up quite frequently. Depressed is not the word I would use. ANGRY yes, and embarrassed yes. At both herself and father. She spent the night at my house that night to cool off. Both SL and father acted, IMO, like asses but then I think alcohol was a big contributing factor. As for SL and alcohol? Can't be sure. Father yes. Big factor.

 

[Saracen]

It means they fumbled it, they made a clumsy mistake-like a rugby knock-on! It sounds like once they screwed it up, it was too late to get evidence or find witnesses who could have potentially seen her later, or seen something happening with him. I am still not convinced they went to that movie theater just because he said so. But now, there is no way of telling!

So that tells me that at least they started an investigation (thanks for the rugby link)lol.. My saying means that they were (told) to back off and not investigate.

 

[Saracen]

IMO...LE was TOLD to ignor. That is again MOO, but it makes sense as LE was asked to step aside as they were influenced by someone to do so. Connected comes to mind but not in the way that word is traditionally used. Connected as in connected to local government or LE. Again MOO...Why else? Not even to interview the best friend who was contacted THAT NIGHT by BF/F. Did he send me on a wild goose chase. Knowing all along that I would find nothing? Thus establishing an alibi for himself with a time line?

As for speculation on pregnancy? Possible, but I don't think so. I was aware of a previous pregnancy but years before and not with BF/F. Just at the time when abortion was made legal. Which is the route she took back then. I seriously doubt that SL would have put herself in that situation AGAIN.

That would not surprise me MMQC, The higher up the LE/Political ladder the more distrusting I am of any of them.. Corruption breeds contempt..

 

[Jmoose]

:seeya:

IMO...LE was TOLD to ignor. That is again MOO, but it makes sense as LE was asked to step aside as they were influenced by someone to do so. Connected comes to mind but not in the way that word is traditionally used. Connected as in connected to local government or LE. Again MOO...Why else? Not even to interview the best friend who was contacted THAT NIGHT by BF/F. Did he send me on a wild goose chase. Knowing all along that I would find nothing? Thus establishing an alibi for himself with a time line?

I wondered about a possible connection to local govt, but nobody seems to know-BF/F did not seem to be concerned about being questioned or arrested, though, since he stayed in the area. Unfortunate that the ADA who lived near you, MMQC, either did not know of a connection, or did not tell your father and you of one. This could explain why the police just stopped looking at the disappearance so quickly. Is that ADA still alive, MMQC?

 

[Odyssey]

NO EVIDENCE OF A CRIME, HOW COULD THEY TELL? THEY NEVER EVEN INVESTIGATED AS THEY SHOULD HAVE!!!! Evidence? If there was any was long gone by the time LE asked the first question. If you ask me the PR was pretty non-descript. No names? Why was the BF/F name not on the report?
Why, why, why!

I went to ADA with my dad as a despirate measure. The least LE could have done was contact the parents and question HIM and ME right away. I spent the next few days calling old classmates and telling them about SL. That perhaps the more people in the KNOW was better. The more EYES out there the better. I'm so frustrated about LE never following up. I'm sure if it was a LE person who had a daughter missing they would look under every rock and turn over every stone to find them. RIGHT? Why did the BF/F never look for SL or go back to the FAMILY? He had a some belongings at their house. Never went back for them to my knowledge. NO CONTACT AT ALL. What happened to the "LOVE".

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. I'm going to try to calm down now.

bbm

Just to clarify, I'm not saying I agree with it, just that it's what I've seen from reading about a lot of cases... many families have the same complaint.

What I'm still stuck on is why she wasn't considered a possible Rand victim (once 'The Bogeyman' was identified as Rand) when virtually every other female missing on Staten Island was... and she was in the right place and the right time to have been a possible victim. By that time Sylvia had been missing for 12 years, they couldn't still think she left voluntarily to cool off?

Had they forgotten about her case, or did they have another theory of what happened to Sylvia?

MMQC, Sylvia's mother seemed to think that she was with you all those years, do you think she was telling police that she thought SL was alive and hiding?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I truly don't remember BF/F being there that night.

The word DEPRESSED comes up quite frequently. Depressed is not the word I would use. ANGRY yes, and embarrassed yes. At both herself and father. She spent the night at my house that night to cool off. Both SL and father acted, IMO, like asses but then I think alcohol was a big contributing factor. As for SL and alcohol? Can't be sure. Father yes. Big factor.

bbm: -- I think this is a really important piece. So I am jumping off your post and speculating -

Maybe the BF/F was invited and didn't show to the party? Maybe he showed up earlier and left or left after the incident? SL was understandably embarrassed by the drunken antics of her father, and I want to add humiliated (felt shamed) in front of her friends. --To me, that is potentially a really big deal. Here she is, a beautiful and accomplished college grad having adhered to the strict and disciplined lifestyle, and was a straight A student with musical honors, feeling humiliated in her own home.

I really feel for Sylvia here because ok, her father drank and she knew that but maybe what she did not expect was to feel humiliated in front of her friends. Or, maybe this wasn’t the first time, either. Did these friends know her dad at Wagner?

IMO...Families are so imperfect and if we are lucky enough, and live long enough, there is hindsight and the coming to terms with our parents’ humanity or lack thereof. I think I was 40 when I sorted all this out.

So, on the evening of her disappearance, if one takes what the BF/F said about their argument in the car (at face value) and SL storming off in traffic (at stop sign, whatever) - and assuming the BF/F knows at least some details of Sylvia’s feelings about what was going on in her life, father, party, maybe in the heat of a mixed up argument, the BF/F told SL if you are so angry and you don't like it there's the door, etc... And, she bolted and he didn't expect that. -- Knowing she stayed with her girlfriend recently, it could explain why the BF/F went to MMQC’s house, first.

I am not advocating for BF/F but to me, there are a lot of unknowns. --If he outright killed her, why is he telling anyone about an argument or her glasses? --Not a good alibi (imo). --Then, to be pulled together enough to make an appearance at two houses? Why not call on the telephone? Does the BF/F have any history of violence? And how does that reconcile with a happy, in love couple? Was there any violence in their relationship?

At the more innocent end of the spectrum, I do think the BF/F was not forthcoming with the whole story. If she left early and he didn’t care until later, better to say fight was later, etc., make himself look better. Or, she gave the ring back stormed off and left her glasses – better to not say anything about the ring, let her tell her parents … Dumb stuff like that.

I think it is possible she left and met up with foul play in another circumstance. That night, did Sylvia reach out to a lesser known contact or friend because she did not want to be found? There’s a group of friends at Wagner, or even mutual friends or contacts she met through the BF/F or someone else. She could have gotten on a ferry boat anytime day or night.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I guess because of the TIMES back then who really talked to parents back then. Kept them in the dark mostly. I confided in her mother as the only adult in the know about my elopment. WHY? I guess because she was my only link with SL an extension of a friendship that was no more? I really can't say. Maybe that I trusted her or wanted her to feel connected with me as I did not have a good relationship with my mother? Who knows? So many years have past to really disect why?

bbm: I think this statement defines the times. Considering the counter-culture, there were many runaways in the 60-70's. And, Sylvia was of consenting age and free will.

So, parents were really operating in the dark, and in many ways, so was LE. Do we know for certain that the BF/F was never interviewed? Was he connected to LE in any way?

Without having insight into any further information on the police report (one page, is that really all there is?), or detailed information from the private investigation, or the the cold case follow up, there is only speculation, and a missing person.

 

[epiphany]

Interesting post, Rose.

Also, MMQC has said that she was unaware of anything about SL's glasses until WS, as well as that she had not learned of nor heard about Sylvia's BF/F going to Sylvia's parents' home that evening after stopping by her's. It appears that Sylvia's Mother chose not to tell her about the glasses being thrown nor BF/F's appearance at family home.

When BF/F arrives at SL's parents' home, it appears that he did tell SL's Mother that SL ran from the car at about 6PM, and on NamUs we see SL is at her last known location at about 6:30 PM.

No alibi set up, IMO, since he didn't tell SL's Mother that they had actually seen the movie which would have gobbled up more time.

Could be missing something...does that make sense?

Also, MMQC describes BF/F as angry, which could be viewed as more in line with showing true feelings after a fight in which his fiancee runs from his vehicle, etc., rather than describing him as nervous, frightened and anxious or calm, cool & collected.

 

[epiphany]

It is also possible, IMO, that given the description MMQC has provided of her parents and her relationship with them at that time (overprotective, controlling, super strict, etc.), that MMQC's parents could very well have asked the next-door neighbor ADA to leave their daughter out of this situation. Therefore, MMQC was never contacted nor interviewed by LE, etc. even though SL's Mother probably provided her name and spoke about the original phone call from MMQC asking that SL call her back when she came home.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Interesting post, Rose.

Also, MMQC has said that she was unaware of anything about SL's glasses until WS, as well as that she had not learned of nor heard about Sylvia's BF/F going to Sylvia's parents' home that evening after stopping by her's. It appears that Sylvia's Mother chose not to tell her about the glasses being thrown nor BF/F's appearance at family home.

When BF/F arrives at SL's parents' home, it appears that he did tell SL's Mother that SL ran from the car at about 6PM, and on NamUs we see SL is at her last known location at about 6:30 PM.

No alibi set up, IMO, since he didn't tell SL's Mother that they had actually seen the movie which would have gobbled up more time.

Could be missing something...does that make sense?

Also, MMQC describes BF/F as angry, which is in line with showing true feelings after a fight in which his fiancee runs from his vehicle, etc., rather than describing him as nervous, frightened and anxious or calm, cool & collected.

I'll add - last phone call with MMQC: BF/F -angry, feels suckered, his mother is having breakdown over it. (Paraphrasing - please correct me if I am wrong!)

So, there is the disappearance of Sylvia, and then the realization that she is really missing to those nearest and dearest and outward from there.

To look at all sides: Do we know that he did not conduct a search himself, his friends and contacts? As he was the last person to see her, perhaps he sought legal counsel. Offered his assistance and cooperation to LE? Followed up with LE?

 

[Jmoose]

I'll add - last phone call with MMQC: BF/F -angry, feels suckered, his mother is having breakdown over it. (Paraphrasing - please correct me if I am wrong!)

So, there is the disappearance of Sylvia, and then the realization that she is really missing to those nearest and dearest and outward from there.

To look at all sides: Do we know that he did not conduct a search himself, his friends and contacts? As he was the last person to see her, perhaps he sought legal counsel. Offered his assistance and cooperation to LE? Followed up with LE?

We don't know, because LE isn't saying. It's possible that some of that information is in what I assume to be the part of the record of this case that we haven't seen. I doubt that the record consists of the one page missing person report. BF/F could have conducted his own search, but if he did, he didn't let Sylvia's family or her closest friend know. I don't know why he wouldn't tell them, but maybe by then, those relationships were broken beyond repair.

Wasn't there something upthread that had Sylvia telling MMQC that BF/F had hit his mother? I don't know about you guys, but I don't actually know any men who would do such a thing-that's a problem, in my book.

 

[Jmoose]

Interesting post, Rose.



No alibi set up, IMO, since he didn't tell SL's Mother that they had actually seen the movie which would have gobbled up more time.

Could be missing something...does that make sense?

Also, MMQC describes BF/F as angry, which could be viewed as more in line with showing true feelings after a fight in which his fiancee runs from his vehicle, etc., rather than describing him as nervous, frightened and anxious or calm, cool & collected.

But why would he tell MMQC that she took off when they had a fight after the movie, and not say the same thing to her mother and father? That the police report says she was last seen around 6:00 is confusing, at best. I wish there was some clarification on this. It could be as simple as the parents saying 6pm was the last time they, themselves, saw her, and not that it was the last time she was actually seen?

 

[epiphany]

IMO...LE was TOLD to ignor. That is again MOO, but it makes sense as LE was asked to step aside as they were influenced by someone to do so. Connected comes to mind but not in the way that word is traditionally used. Connected as in connected to local government or LE. Again MOO...Why else? Not even to interview the best friend who was contacted THAT NIGHT by BF/F. Did he send me on a wild goose chase. Knowing all along that I would find nothing? Thus establishing an alibi for himself with a time line?

As for speculation on pregnancy? Possible, but I don't think so. I was aware of a previous pregnancy but years before and not with BF/F. Just at the time when abortion was made legal. Which is the route she took back then. I seriously doubt that SL would have put herself in that situation AGAIN.

BBM

You mentioned earlier that at that time you probably agreed with SL's Mother that a full blown media attack may have hindered SL's future job prospects or a higher ed plan.

You also mentioned that there had been no wedding date set for the couple.

How had Sylvia planned on using her Biology degree? What profession was she considering?

Could she have become more interested in establishing an earlier than previously discussed wedding date range given the most recent argument with her Father?

 

[MMQC]

:seeya:

I wondered about a possible connection to local govt, but nobody seems to know-BF/F did not seem to be concerned about being questioned or arrested, though, since he stayed in the area. Unfortunate that the ADA who lived near you, MMQC, either did not know of a connection, or did not tell your father and you of one. This could explain why the police just stopped looking at the disappearance so quickly. Is that ADA still alive, MMQC?

I know ADA moved away. Don't know about him being alive or dead. I think moved to NJ.

 

[MMQC]

bbm

Just to clarify, I'm not saying I agree with it, just that it's what I've seen from reading about a lot of cases... many families have the same complaint.

What I'm still stuck on is why she wasn't considered a possible Rand victim (once 'The Bogeyman' was identified as Rand) when virtually every other female missing on Staten Island was... and she was in the right place and the right time to have been a possible victim. By that time Sylvia had been missing for 12 years, they couldn't still think she left voluntarily to cool off?

Had they forgotten about her case, or did they have another theory of what happened to Sylvia?

MMQC, Sylvia's mother seemed to think that she was with you all those years, do you think she was telling police that she thought SL was alive and hiding?

Don't think mother said anything to LE, they never followed up.