OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 Apr 2006 #5

GoBuckeyes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2016
Messages
2,164
Reaction score
10,679
Yes, and when Clint Florence was given the questions he was to answer for the Grand Jury, that’s when his attorney advised him to stop cooperating.

Wow, I had no idea. I read at some point that Clint lawyered up and that the family felt he was not as helpful as he could have been. But I had no idea about the GJ. Did they at least make him plead the fifth on the record?
 

Ozoner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
3,849
Reaction score
13,977
...

He was last seen on camera outside the bar. Was he actually seen on camera going back into the bar?
No. He probably did not re-enter the bar. He most likely went through a door leading to a hallway adjacent to the bar. From there he may have gone down to the lower level and entered the construction area.
 

King91

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
31
Reaction score
168
Hey all, long time lurker here making my first post.

I discovered this case a few months ago and have been following it closely ever since. So many good podcasts and videos made on it.

Me personally, I, unfortunately, think Brian is deceased. I believe some kind of freak accident happened and his remains are somewhere very close to that building complex. This isn’t to say I think he was buried in the cement, but maybe stuck in a crevice or an unsuspecting area, not necessarily underground. There have been numerous cases where missing people were found not far from where they were last seen, despite multiple search efforts. I believe this is just one of those cases.

I just can’t see how everyone else that night is accounted for leaving, but the guy who has been missing now 15 years was never seen again after 1:55 especially when they said he was not picked up on CCTV by any of the surrounding establishments. I don’t believe in that many coincidences, especially with how much time has passed.

Again, this is just my opinion. Anything is possible and I hope one day his brother Derek will have the answers he’s been looking for. To go through what he went through in less than 3 years... I can’t imagine the pain. I really feel for that guy.

Very sad confusing case.
 

BeachSky

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
2,424
Reaction score
23,804
Welcome King91 !
Yes you could be right
The movie “The upside of anger” proves that very theory IMO.
 

Falkner77

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
247
15 years ago tonight. Where on earth is he?!

“The gist of my perspective on Clint Florence is that I think that basically all roads to making any progress on the case on Brian Shaffer lead through Clint Florence," - Tom Waggoner

“If I saw him I'd say, 'Where the hell is my brother?'. "If anyone knows whether he is still alive, or if something happened to him, it's Clint." - Derek Shaffer

15 years later and you still cant take a look at this case and not deduce Clint/William's at least potentially withholding something. He is one of the sole living breathing potential leads in this lead-less case.

What was the argument about that fateful night in 2006, or 2 weeks prior on St. Patricks Day between the two? What secrets were held between them over the years? Why was he house-sitting at a professor's home with Meredith, but first met Brian at his apartment to start the night out? Why such a quick exit from Tuna? He lawyered up right when the heat got turned up and these secrets will likely forever be sealed thanks to our legal system.


All we're left to do is hope some time in the next 15 years, we'll know more
 

tyrnill

New Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
8
Reaction score
25
I'm with Occam on this one; except in truly rare instances, the most likely scenario is usually the least complicated.

I agree, but the solution you then outline is WAY more complicated than "He was never seen leaving, therefore he died there and was for some reason not discovered." My mind keeps going back to the one guy found behind the supermarket cooler.

I think something happened to him, whether accidental or intentional (Clint strikes me as iffy, obviously), and he died there, that night. It's the best explanation for the complete lack of any sign of him after he moves off-screen in the camera footage.
 

llewellyn

Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
5
Reaction score
28
Generally, discussions around this theory tend to lean towards Brian's exit having been meticulously planned over a period of time, and possibly assisted by someone else.

Have been reading through all the threads: such a fascinating and odd case. I don't think that this scenario is the most likely or likely at all, but certainly possible. Detailed planning and a close confidant - obviously Clint. Some accounts have them arguing in the bar - Clint pleading for the last time with Brian for not going through with his plan... Beforehand they have hid a backbag in the construction area or nearby with a change of clothes and maybe some facial disguise. Quick change, then an immediate pickup pre-arranged with another ally and a quick exit from the area. All planned ahead with intelligence and coolness of mind, probably decided already after mother's death, or even before, and executed with such efficiency within just minutes.

But most probably not.
 

psych-nurse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
108
Reaction score
714
Is it possible that Brian made it to his apartment that night? Could he have left through the back (employee/band) exit to ditch Clint and Meredith, maybe looked briefly for Brighton and her friend, and eventually took the alley ways home? For all anyone knows, he could've met with foul play or decided to leave the next day, right? Is there evidence that I'm missing to definitively prove he did not return to his apartment?
 

MerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
10,754
Have been reading through all the threads: such a fascinating and odd case. I don't think that this scenario is the most likely or likely at all, but certainly possible. Detailed planning and a close confidant - obviously Clint. Some accounts have them arguing in the bar - Clint pleading for the last time with Brian for not going through with his plan... Beforehand they have hid a backbag in the construction area or nearby with a change of clothes and maybe some facial disguise. Quick change, then an immediate pickup pre-arranged with another ally and a quick exit from the area. All planned ahead with intelligence and coolness of mind, probably decided already after mother's death, or even before, and executed with such efficiency within just minutes.

But most probably not.
Respectfully, you’re assuming he did not make it back to his apartment that night. He could have easily taken an alternate exit and walked down Pearl alley the entire way, unseen by people and/or cameras. His girlfriend was out of town all weekend, and no one went to his apartment. He wasn’t even noticed to be missing until Sunday. This really may not have been the clandestine escape everyone assumes it was.

<snipped>
 
Last edited by a moderator:

itsrak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,354
If a prosecutor presented a case against Clint before a grand jury, we know Clint was not indicted and therefore did not face criminal charges. We also know that no civil charges were ever brought against Clint. And had there been a grand jury Clint would likely not even have been informed of the proceedings and would not have been present.

Thus, Clint never appeared before a grand jury, was never indicted if there was a grand jury, was never charged criminally, and never faced civil charges.
 

MerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
10,754
If a prosecutor presented a case against Clint before a grand jury, we know Clint was not indicted and therefore did not face criminal charges. We also know that no civil charges were ever brought against Clint. And had there been a grand jury Clint would likely not even have been informed of the proceedings and would not have been present.

Thus, Clint never appeared before a grand jury, was never indicted if there was a grand jury, was never charged criminally, and never faced civil charges.
Clint was subpoenaed but refused to answer the prosecutor’s questions at the advice of his attorney. He exercised his 5th amendment privilege. Make of that what you will.
 

itsrak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,354
Clint was subpoenaed but refused to answer the prosecutor’s questions at the advice of his attorney. He exercised his 5th amendment privilege. Make of that what you will.
That is mere hearsay. What I'd make of Clint never having been indicted, if a prosecutor even took it to a grand jury, is that there was no case. Which is probably why no civil case. This is why grand jury is secret - people talk even if there was no case and a no-bill decision is returned. Like you are. Guessing that he pled the fifth on the record. Please.
 
Last edited:

MerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
10,754
That is mere hearsay. What I'd make of Clint never having been indicted, if a prosecutor even took it to a grand jury, is that there was no case. Which is probably why no civil case. This is why grand jury is secret - people talk even if there was no case and a no-bill decision is returned. Like you are. Guessing that he pled the fifth on the record. Please.
It’s not hearsay that a prosecutor took it to a grand jury, Detective Hurst has stated this. He also said Clint refused to answer the questions provided. The only way you can do that is to plead the 5th. I agree that they obviously did not then have the evidence needed to pursue a case.
 

itsrak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,354
It’s not hearsay that a prosecutor took it to a grand jury, Detective Hurst has stated this. He also said Clint refused to answer the questions provided. The only way you can do that is to plead the 5th. I agree that they obviously did not then have the evidence needed to pursue a case.
I've listened to everything I know of from Hurst. Could you tell me where to hear him say prosecutor presented case against Clint before a grand jury - I've heard no such thing from Hurst or any other official. I'd be shocked to learn that Hurst had done something so wrong and reckless - grand jury actions are to be kept under wraps. Thx in advance.
 

Ozoner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
3,849
Reaction score
13,977
I've listened to everything I know of from Hurst. Could you tell me where to hear him say prosecutor presented case against Clint before a grand jury - I've heard no such thing from Hurst or any other official. I'd be shocked to learn that Hurst had done something so wrong and reckless - grand jury actions are to be kept under wraps. Thx in advance.
You're not missing anything, itsrak. Hurst has never said that Clint was the target of the grand jury investigation. The grand jury was almost certainly convened in order to determine whether a crime had occurred, which is a common use of a grand jury in some jurisdictions. In other words, there were no charges to be brought against anyone because they never even determined that there was foul play. It most most likely a fishing expedition where they were digging for information by asking Clint anything and everything. I wouldn't have participated, either.
 

MerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
10,754
I've listened to everything I know of from Hurst. Could you tell me where to hear him say prosecutor presented case against Clint before a grand jury - I've heard no such thing from Hurst or any other official. I'd be shocked to learn that Hurst had done something so wrong and reckless - grand jury actions are to be kept under wraps. Thx in advance.

Kelly’s podcast, Brian Shaffer Dead or Alive Ch 3, Interview with Lead Detective Hurst

‎Brian Shaffer Dead or Alive: Chapter Three: The Inside Track on Apple Podcasts
 

MerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
10,754
You're not missing anything, itsrak. Hurst has never said that Clit was the target of the grand jury investigation. The grand jury was almost certainly convened in order to determine whether a crime had occurred, which is a common use of a grand jury in some jurisdictions. In other words, there were no charges to be brought against anyone because they never even determined that there was foul play. It most most likely a fishing expedition where they were digging for information by asking Clint anything and everything. I wouldn't have participated, either.

You can listen to Hurst talk about the grand jury in the link I just posted. No one is arguing that the GJ was convened to determine whether a crime occurred. Clint refused to answer the questions on the advice of his attorney. That’s all I’m saying. They obviously did not and still do not have evidence of foul play.
 

Ozoner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
3,849
Reaction score
13,977
You can listen to Hurst talk about the grand jury in the link I just posted. No one is arguing that the GJ was convened to determine whether a crime occurred. Clint refused to answer the questions on the advice of his attorney. That’s all I’m saying. They obviously did not and still do not have evidence of foul play.
I'm glad that you cleared that up, because you're previous posts seemed to imply that Clint was a target of the grand jury investigation as opposed to simply a witness.
 
Top