OH - Clermont County father lined up sons 3, 4, and 7, executed with rifle, mother injured trying to protect them, June 2023

[Charlot123]

Actually, I see this as an absolute act of control. Yes, it is my own opinion. In his mind, he "won". Planned, and executed.

There is something about it. When he was cuffed and walked to the police car, away from the house, he looked at a white mobile home in front of him. I wonder if the mother was there. His gaze was strange, as if he wanted to say, "get it!"

 

[Charlot123]

I wonder if he was on drugs and was detached from reality as you mentioned. His emotional break down in court that he tried to suppress may have been because he was hearing the description of what he did, and processing it without detachment. He is likely on suicide watch.

If he was detached from reality during the time he killed his sons, I don't think he will be able to live with it.

Makes me wonder if he got on drugs that made him delusional and he could be thinking these were not his kids. They look very much like him but who knows what he thought.

Another idea - he is pretty muscular, whether it is hard work or some form of working out. Could it be roid rage?

 

[Charlot123]

Which profile? That’s a 49 page research article. You know? It covers multiple different profiles.

He seems to fit the profile of obe who wants to kill the children to hurt his wife or ex. That is a type of family annihilator. According to studies the vast majority of those also kill themselves, but they leave the wife behind to suffer. So in that, he isn’t in the majority of that specific type of annihilator. But leaving the wife alive is precisely what that type does:


“Spouse revenge filicide

This final category consists of parents who kill their offspring in a deliberate attempt to make their spouses suffer. The prototype is found in Euripides’ play, Medea. After killing their two sons, Medea told her unfaithful husband, Jason, “Thy sons are dead and gone. That will stab thy heart” (Oates and O’Neill, 1938). The most common precipitants for spouse revenge filicide are spousal infidelity and child custody disputes.

Mr. Ronald Shanaberger's fiancee had made arrangements to go on a Caribbean cruise with her girlfriends before their engagement. When Mr. Shanaberger's father died, his fiancee declined to return early from the cruise to be with him in his time of grief. He resolved in his rage to make her suffer the way he had suffered. He waited until they married and their son, Tyler, was 7 months old. After his wife was fully bonded with Tyler, he killed their child (Associated Press, 1999). He was sentenced to 49 years in prison.”
Filicide in the United States

“Revenge filicide is a poorly understood, rare form of filicide in which a parent murders their child to cause emotional harm to the child's other parent. This descriptive study presents an international case series consisting of 62 revenge filicide cases from nine countries. Perpetrators were about equally likely to be male or female. Over half of the sample had an active mental disorder of any type, most often a personality disorder. A history of domestic violence was common. The mean victim age was 6 years. They were typically killed by asphyxiation, firearms, or knives, and preschool age children were targeted most frequently. In half of the cases, more than one child was murdered. Post-crime suicidal behavior was commonplace, and one-third of the sample died by suicide.”

Revenge filicide: An international perspective through 62 cases - PubMed


Spanish man allegedly killed kids to spite mom for getting new boyfriend. (He drugged and drowned his two little girls. Left mom alive).

Spanish man allegedly killed kids to spite mom for getting new boyfriend

A man was arrested late Wednesday night after admitting to stabbing his two children to death in order to spite his ex-wife in the central Israeli town of Yashresh.

Around midnight, the man walked into the police station in the nearby city of Ramle, and told officers that he had murdered his 14-year-old daughter and his 10-year-old son, who usually live with their mother in the United States.

Father kills his children, US citizens, to spite ex-wife | The Times of Israel

A man who allegedly murdered his son killed the two-year-old out of spite towards his ex-partner, a court has heard.

Prosecutors said Lukasz Czapla's fury towards his former partner Patrycja Szczesniak is what motivated him to kill their son Julius at his Edinburgh home in November 2020

Dad accused of killing Scots tot in ‘fit of anger and spite’ towards ex partner

A father who slit his son and daughter’s throats to spite his estranged wife was today told he will die behind bars as he was jailed for at least 30 years.

Jean Say, 62, murdered Regina, eight, and her brother Rolls, ten, while they were staying with him for the weekend.

He then phoned his wife Adjoua, 44, and told her: ‘Come and get the bodies’.

Father who slit children's throats to spite wife is jailed for 30 years

A devastated family is pointing the finger at authorities over a murder-suicide that claimed the life of a 7-year-old girl and her father, who allegedly meant to punish his ex-wife through the gruesome act.

Police say Jeffrey Mancuso, 45, apparently beat his daughter, Kayden, to death with a barbell before taking his own life over the weekend in Philadelphia, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. Police have not yet revealed how Jeffrey Mancuso died.

Man Beats 7-Year-Old Daughter To Death With A Barbell, Then Kills Himself In Attack Allegedly Meant To Spite His Ex-Wife | Oxygen Official Site

It goes on an on and on. These are a subtype of family annihilator that kill for revenge.

Everything I agree with, except in Medea's situation, she gave an explanation that made sense. Jason divorces Medea to marry young Glauka. Jason explains to Medea that she'll benefit from it, too, as when Glauka's father, the king of Corinth, dies, Jason will be the king, and Jason's kids from Medea, the princes. When Jason leaves, Medea says that he'll have other kids with Glauka and her children will be slaves of Glauka's kids. Not a great future for them. She punishes Jason, but at least she probably was right about her kids' future.

 

[Hexe]

Makes me wonder if he got on drugs that made him delusional and he could be thinking these were not his kids. They look very much like him but who knows what he thought.

Another idea - he is pretty muscular, whether it is hard work or some form of working out. Could it be roid rage?

I have problem with drugs and roid rage theories. I mean in that bodycam footage dude was not raging. He was perfectly calm. From the descriptions of this tragedy it seems he executed his children, calmly and methodically, one by one, and then, as seen in the footage, sat down on the stairs waiting serenely for the LE and ignoring his poor wife who was screaming her head off. Dude was not agitated, or raging as he would be if it was because of drugs and roids. He seemed completely detached from what he just did and not in the way a psychopath would be.

Some people claim there was no evidence of flat affect here, but if sitting on the stairs after a brutal slaying, chitchatting with cops casually and having a hollow, empty stare is not an evidence of seriously flattened affect, I don't know what is. If it was an act of revenge there should be some emotion in that dude, anger, satisfaction, hatred towards his wife, something. And there is nothing, like he sat on these stairs after moving his lawn all day.

 

[Charlot123]

Sadly his heart wants what HE wants. Revenge will continue to taste sweet to him. He will blame her that he is where he is and his ego will swell to the size of whatever cell he's in. His hunger, his discomfort. IMO he'll bully the staff (because he's protected, they can't fight back.). Before long, he'll probably put photos of the boys up. Because he's full of himself.

Jmo

Yes, like CW who immediately put his daughters' and wife's photos up and found Christ in prison. Which seems almost a loophole: if they are in heaven and happy, my guilt is not so heavy. This one, too, will use the same internal defense and not feel any guilt.

 

[Charlot123]

I have problem with drugs and roid rage theories. I mean in that bodycam footage dude was not raging. He was perfectly calm. From the descriptions of this tragedy it seems he executed his children, calmly and methodically, one by one, and then, as seen in the footage, sat down on the stairs waiting serenely for the LE and ignoring his poor wife who was screaming her head off. Dude was not agitated, or raging as he would be if it was because of drugs and roids. He seemed completely detached from what he just did and not in the way a psychopath would be.

Some people claim there was no evidence of flat affect here, but if sitting on the stairs after a brutal slaying, chitchatting with cops casually and having a hollow, empty stare is not an evidence of seriously flattened affect, I don't know what is. If it was an act of revenge there should be some emotion in that dude, anger, satisfaction, hatred towards his wife, something. And there is nothing, like he sat on these stairs after moving his lawn all day.

Interesting, thank you. I wonder if he has some alexithymia, not being in contact with own emotions, but I don't see flat affect. He is very detached and hence, appears calm, but inside, he is seething. He obviously cared about the dog, but he rudely yelled at the dog during the arrest. Even in court, he appears angry. The reason he is not acting out is because, essentially, his mission is accomplished. I think he foresaw the consequences, but revenge and "if I can't get my boys, no one is getting them" were probably the motives.

I agree that he doesn't look like a typical meth user, but steroids are possible. Short stature and very muscular. They are not always just angry, chronic steroid users, they can get very psychotic, too. Usually there is jealousy involveqqd due to their side effects. Something in the qasuality of his anger reminded me of steroids. Their use is easy to oversee because how are we supposed to know until users tell us?

Happy to discuss other versions; I think it could me a mixture of endogenous and exogenous components. I also wonder 0what behavior he learned from his father.

 

[Hexe]

Interesting, thank you. I wonder if he has some alexithymia, not being in contact with own emotions, but I don't see flat affect. He is very detached and hence, appears calm, but inside, he is seething.

What makes you think he is seething inside?

Even in court, he appears angry.

When?

I agree that he doesn't look like a typical meth user, but steroids are possible. Short stature and very muscular.

Whatever does his height have to do with potential steroid use?

They are not always just angry, chronic steroid users, they can get very psychotic, too.

They can. Sure. But a typical thing in steroid induced psychosis is agitation. This dude was not agitated at all.

Usually there is jealousy involveqqd due to their side effects. Something in the qasuality of his anger reminded me of steroids.

Again, where do you see anger in him? I fail to see it.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Interesting, thank you. I wonder if he has some alexithymia, not being in contact with own emotions, but I don't see flat affect. He is very detached and hence, appears calm, but inside, he is seething. He obviously cared about the dog, but he rudely yelled at the dog during the arrest. Even in court, he appears angry. The reason he is not acting out is because, essentially, his mission is accomplished. I think he foresaw the consequences, but revenge and "if I can't get my boys, no one is getting them" were probably the motives.

I agree that he doesn't look like a typical meth user, but steroids are possible. Short stature and very muscular. They are not always just angry, chronic steroid users, they can get very psychotic, too. Usually there is jealousy involveqqd due to their side effects. Something in the qasuality of his anger reminded me of steroids. Their use is easy to oversee because how are we supposed to know until users tell us?

Happy to discuss other versions; I think it could me a mixture of endogenous and exogenous components. I also wonder 0what behavior he learned from his father.

I personally don't think he is that muscular, certainly not steroid abuse muscular. To me he looked more like you would expect of someone who worked outside, in a physical job. He isn't out of proportion.

I wouldn't say he appeared to be seething, more indifferent. The only hint of any emotion we saw was that tearful moment in court, which I believe was for himself, not his conscience.

Re your above comment about the boys looking like him, I have to disagree because if you see the photo of them with their sister, they are the image of her.

 

[sandy_80]

i was surprised to see a modren young mother..lhe killer looks like a mad man ..like a junki ...how it is that this danger wasnt detected and she left with her kids before.. do they live wiuth him or he was in rage cause she left him or somthin
also ...i wonder why she diudnt try to hurt him or even kill him instead of fighting over the gun..not victim blaming

 

[Damarna]

i was surprised to see a modren young mother..lhe killer looks like a mad man ..like a junki ...how it is that this danger wasnt detected and she left with her kids before.. do they live wiuth him or he was in rage cause she left him or somthin
also ...i wonder why she diudnt try to hurt him or even kill him instead of fighting over the gun..not victim blaming

Those are questions that go through my mind as well. In the end we do not know the reality that family lived in. I also have never been in that place. I can’t judge her reactions.

 

[Dhighsmith]

His prior charges of assaulting his father and neighbor comments on signs of anger issues to news media indicates to me some underlying mental disorder. It’s possible he self medicates with drugs or alcohol but the LE video doesn’t show to me any obvious signs of being out of control or rage. Treatment of mental illness lacks the proper support or interest and urgency in protecting the public from violent behavior- ignoring issues don’t make them go away, it’s not a summer cold. Evil actions have to be rooted from some source. No justification, still Guilty but with mental illness.

 

[sandy_80]

all I am saying ..this horrific crime must have had steps leading to it .. and there is some major failures somewhere to protect those babies ..the absence of any details is also strange
could be one of those crazy theorists about the end of the world and my kids be better in heaven or revenge against the mom ..
just saying ..there is more blame somewhere that isnt being addressed
no one will make beilve hes been plotting this evil unnoticed

 

[Charlot123]

What makes you think he is seething inside?




When?



Whatever does his height have to do with potential steroid use?



They can. Sure. But a typical thing in steroid induced psychosis is agitation. This dude was not agitated at all.




Again, where do you see anger in him? I fail to see it.

1) Maybe it is what we see on the videos. I assume we may see different things because one thing we are missing is the “atmosphere” in the room that one would immediately feel in person. However, he reminds me of a tightly squeezed spring that can fire at any moment. Perhaps his detachment is an adaptive mechanism that he worked out to control his anger. Look what happens when it gets out of control, he becomes deadly. Twice. Choked his father, killed the kids.

2) I saw it in initial court video, but more so on the second one, when he is sitting.

3) about the height. It depends on the age. In the beginning of puberty, testosterone increases release of growth hormone, triggering growth. However, excessive testosterone might cause premature closure of growth plates and hence, negatively affect growth. If this guy started using steroids in puberty to get more muscle bulk, it could have negatively affected growth.

4) having met some steroid users, and often you don’t realize they are using until they tell you, I have noticed two things. First, you always ask yourself, why the heck is he constantly angry? And then, when they get really angry, they can’t stop. It is not a short-acting impulsive outburst of energy, they roar and roar and roar. The problem is, those who are seriously into muscular looks, use lots of other cr@@y additives, at best it is extra creatine that IMHO does nothing except for stressing the kidneys. At worst, they use something like herbs (Schizandra Africans, etc) with unclear effects. From time to time, these additives are pulled off the market and rebranded under other names. In short, to me it says, nothing good. The whole area is poorly studied IMHO.

I am not stating if he uses steroids, I am asking if it is possible. In fact, one can’t make any definitive conclusion before asking collateral information and at least looking at the relatives. However, I agree that he doesn’t look like a typical family annihilator, and I, too, feel that something is off. What contributed, needs to be studied. (MAO activity, for example.) The easiest thing is to execute, and he surely deserves it, but what about prevention?

One thing is obvious, call the police or the CPS if you think your neighbor is abusive to kids. However, I can see how CD’s neighbor could have been sincerely scared of him. Are there any anonymous lines?

 

[gitana1]

Everything I agree with, except in Medea's situation, she gave an explanation that made sense. Jason divorces Medea to marry young Glauka. Jason explains to Medea that she'll benefit from it, too, as when Glauka's father, the king of Corinth, dies, Jason will be the king, and Jason's kids from Medea, the princes. When Jason leaves, Medea says that he'll have other kids with Glauka and her children will be slaves of Glauka's kids. Not a great future for them. She punishes Jason, but at least she probably was right about her kids' future.

Great knowledge! Thank you.

 

[Knox]

I personally don't think he is that muscular, certainly not steroid abuse muscular. To me he looked more like you would expect of someone who worked outside, in a physical job. He isn't out of proportion.

I wouldn't say he appeared to be seething, more indifferent. The only hint of any emotion we saw was that tearful moment in court, which I believe was for himself, not his conscience.

Re your above comment about the boys looking like him, I have to disagree because if you see the photo of them with their sister, they are the image of her.

He's def not muscular, in the booking video he disrobes - I don't see muscles?

 

[Stunned]

He's def not muscular, in the booking video he disrobes - I don't see muscles?

He thinks he does.

 

[LadyL]

He's def not muscular, in the booking video he disrobes - I don't see muscles?

I thought he looked muscular in his t-shirt too, especially at the house when he was on the ground but now seeing him disrobed, he just looks lean and kinda scrawny IMO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I am in no way caught up (June 21/22), and I am trying to catch up. I just want to say that I will purposely never remember this male human's preferred name. regardless of sanity, excuses, or reasons (biological or not), this male human does not deserve a title or name. Naming things is a human thing, and he is not human. Delete if I have offended anyone.

Replying to my own post to say I have my own label for him now. CD= Cause (of) Death

 

[mickey2942]

1) Maybe it is what we see on the videos. I assume we may see different things because one thing we are missing is the “atmosphere” in the room that one would immediately feel in person. However, he reminds me of a tightly squeezed spring that can fire at any moment. Perhaps his detachment is an adaptive mechanism that he worked out to control his anger. Look what happens when it gets out of control, he becomes deadly. Twice. Choked his father, killed the kids.

2) I saw it in initial court video, but more so on the second one, when he is sitting.

3) about the height. It depends on the age. In the beginning of puberty, testosterone increases release of growth hormone, triggering growth. However, excessive testosterone might cause premature closure of growth plates and hence, negatively affect growth. If this guy started using steroids in puberty to get more muscle bulk, it could have negatively affected growth.

4) having met some steroid users, and often you don’t realize they are using until they tell you, I have noticed two things. First, you always ask yourself, why the heck is he constantly angry? And then, when they get really angry, they can’t stop. It is not a short-acting impulsive outburst of energy, they roar and roar and roar. The problem is, those who are seriously into muscular looks, use lots of other cr@@y additives, at best it is extra creatine that IMHO does nothing except for stressing the kidneys. At worst, they use something like herbs (Schizandra Africans, etc) with unclear effects. From time to time, these additives are pulled off the market and rebranded under other names. In short, to me it says, nothing good. The whole area is poorly studied IMHO.

I am not stating if he uses steroids, I am asking if it is possible. In fact, one can’t make any definitive conclusion before asking collateral information and at least looking at the relatives. However, I agree that he doesn’t look like a typical family annihilator, and I, too, feel that something is off. What contributed, needs to be studied. (MAO activity, for example.) The easiest thing is to execute, and he surely deserves it, but what about prevention?

One thing is obvious, call the police or the CPS if you think your neighbor is abusive to kids. However, I can see how CD’s neighbor could have been sincerely scared of him. Are there any anonymous lines?

As we have seen on WS, many times people have called CPS, and either the investigation was faulty, in case of Nubia Barahona, or in the case of Troy Koehler, the child denied any abuse, (which is common).

It is so complicated. And there really are layers and layers. It is actually amazing when child abusers get arrested, before the children are dead. Unfortunately.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

In the beginning of puberty, testosterone increases release of growth hormone, triggering growth. However, excessive testosterone might cause premature closure of growth plates and hence, negatively affect growth.

RSBM
Just an alternative to being boosted by steroids. He could possibly have had a biological reason for an excess of testosterone, which in turn stunted growth. Yet, from what others have said and MOO, once his shirt is off he is not that muscular, he was likely wearing a tight fighting shirt that leaner guys like to wear.