GUILTY OH - Elaina Steinfurth, 17 months, Toledo, 2 Jun 2013 - #5

[GGE]

I know this isn't pleasant... but in many cases I've followed where there is a strong suspicion that someone is in a body of water, there is a period of time (weeks) sometimes where it almost seems like things are slowing and people are in limbo kind of.. but it's usually, in those cases, that LE is allowing the necessary time required for .. i'm sorry this is really not pleasant... for someone to "bloat and float"... and come to the surface. (You have no idea how much I'm hating posting this.. well yes you do, you hate reading it just as much. )

I'm thinking that *IF* LE feels that she's in there, then perhaps they're thinking that it would be far safer to wait that time frame and then continue water surface searches, than to send someone down under the water in the meantime, considering how dark and murky it is and how full of dangerous hazards ...

I'm so sorry to say that, and I hope I'm wrong. I really do.

I pray for Elaina at least once a day and usually much more often, and today has been no different... Again today I did a double take at a child in the back seat of an extended cab pickup in the local walmart parking lot in upstate NY just because I thought it looked like a missing child, and I won't stop looking extra hard at children to see if it is Elaina until she is found.

 

[mamacita]

I know this isn't pleasant... but in many cases I've followed where there is a strong suspicion that someone is in a body of water, there is a period of time (weeks) sometimes where it almost seems like things are slowing and people are in limbo kind of.. but it's usually, in those cases, that LE is allowing the necessary time required for .. i'm sorry this is really not pleasant... for someone to "bloat and float"... and come to the surface. (You have no idea how much I'm hating posting this.. well yes you do, you hate reading it just as much. )

I'm thinking that *IF* LE feels that she's in there, then perhaps they're thinking that it would be far safer to wait that time frame and then continue water surface searches, than to send someone down under the water in the meantime, considering how dark and murky it is and how full of dangerous hazards ...

I'm so sorry to say that, and I hope I'm wrong. I really do.

I pray for Elaina at least once a day and usually much more often, and today has been no different... Again today I did a double take at a child in the back seat of an extended cab pickup in the local walmart parking lot in upstate NY just because I thought it looked like a missing child, and I won't stop looking extra hard at children to see if it is Elaina until she is found.

i get it.. for the most part. but wouldn't they want to make sure it's not a body ASAP?? i mean, they longer they wait, the more deposed the body becomes and more evidence disappears. also - if someone that was involved knows about the hair that was found.. if they know that that's where they put the body, what would stop them from going to that location and moving the body??

 

[Ferretmommy]

And especially since a detective told TJ there's currently 17 people missing in Toledo! If it is NOT hers, who's to say it doesn't belong to one of the other missing people?

 

[Ferretmommy]

Does anyone know how long it takes to "bloat & float"? I mean it's been a month already, and she's just a baby... I would think it would have happened already...

 

[passionflower]

I would think it would not take long to know if it is human hsir. DNA would take longer. Oh my could be anyone at yhis point. Scarey indeed!

 

[SCHMAE]

Does anyone know how long it takes to "bloat & float"? I mean it's been a month already, and she's just a baby... I would think it would have happened already...

Ferret, You don't need to think about that kind of stuff.
I'm sorry that you have to .

 

[AndiLA]

I hate seeing this thread slip further and further down the page. Up you go, back to the top, baby girl. Show the searchers where you are. Time to come home, sweetheart.

 

[Whisperer]

Just didn't think it would go on this long. For goodness sakes, hasn't LE learned anything about investigating missing babies and others? There are certainly enough to glean through. My patience is wearing thin. Sorry.

... lawyers! #@&%^*....how some of them sleep at night is amazing.

LE's hands are tied once they slither on to the scene.

 

[knt42]

I've been waiting for the LE to say something about the search efforts in the area, but now feel totally deflated. No active search today? When was the last active search carried out by the LE?

I really hope that things are moving forward with LE behind the scenes, and this case is not going to turn into a cold case.

 

[menmo]

WHAT?! No active search today And it will take WEEKS to determine if its human hair! They are not planning on putting divers in until the hair is proven its human first, by then she can be somewhere else in the river. Why are they dropping the ball on this! I'm sure they can determine if its human before weeks.

Makes me so sad for Elaina and everyone that is missing. I'm sorry ferretmomy, cherubcollector and the rest of your family. I wish I could dive down there for you but I have no skills for that. Hugs! We're all here for all of you.

SBM

in many cases I've followed where there is a strong suspicion that someone is in a body of water, there is a period of time (weeks) sometimes where it almost seems like things are slowing and people are in limbo kind of.. but it's usually, in those cases, that LE is allowing the necessary time required for .. i'm sorry this is really not pleasant... for someone to "bloat and float"... and come to the surface..

What if that person is weighed down with something and won't float? Then what?
So much time wasted, IMO, and if it's this frustrating for me I can only imagine how frustrating it is for those wanting Elaina found ~ those that truly love her.

MOO

 

[lonetraveler]

Does the TPD not have access to a cadaver dog that scents on water? If any part of that "story" AS supposedly told is true, why wouldn't they have had a water scent cadaver dog out on that river near that bridge before sending divers down? :waitasec:

MOO

Do cadaver dogs alert on hair without roots? I was just wondering if a dog was used to see if it is from a human cadaver. Could be a quick test to see if it is human hair or not. Just thinking......

 

[LindaFaye]

Well know news again today I sure wish someone would open up and talk so they can find
baby Elaina the mama knows what happen to her but I also think there is another person that knows also might even be more people that know but they are not talking it's so sad to think about what happen to her I breaks my heart to even think about it.

 

[Moonflowers111]

Is it well known around town that part of the river is dangerous and has all that debris, cars, etc on the bottom of it? I wonder if people realized that's a good place to hide ...... ... knowing that searches will be near impossible.

Never underestimate the power of a small, determined group!

 

[SCHMAE]

So SK and the rest are doing what now? Still laying low? Resuming their lives ? What is SK's life anyway? Does he have a job to get back to? ( fearing i know the answer )

 

[GGE]

Does anyone know how long it takes to "bloat & float"? I mean it's been a month already, and she's just a baby... I would think it would have happened already...

I'm no expert.. but the main case I was thinking of when I posted that was Jack Culolias, in Tempe, AZ -

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/01/asu_freshman_jack_culolias_dea.php

It took six weeks for Jack to come up and be found; the article linked above seems to suggest that it would take at *least* two weeks.

But this more detailed article about Jack talks about what takes even longer sometimes -

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/12/body_found_near_tempe_marketpl.php

"A Maricopa County Sheriff's Office helicopter was brought in, as were K-9 units specifically trained to find humans, a robot with sonar that could find objects underwater, and investigators on the ground, but they didn't find any physical clues.

Although it seems strange that the body would be found after what seemed to be a very thorough search, there is a likely answer, albeit a morbid one.

In a very similar situation a couple years back, a Tempe cop explained to us that a body will oftentimes sink to the bottom of a body of water, and remain there until an amount of gases form inside the body, eventually pushing the body to the surface, where it will remain.

Some forensics literature related to human bodies in water confirms this, and the water temperature also appears to be a factor in the time it takes for a body to surface."

(much more at link, as well as this additional link to "forensics literature" on the subject - http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf)

Now, if anyone doesn't want to read about it please skip the rest of my post. I'm going to quote a little bit (nothing even the least bit graphic but still disturbing and gutwrenching in context of Elaina. )




The most pertinent section of the link directly above is the section titled "Effects of Immersion".

Essentially, water temperature and depth are big factors in the time it takes for the gasses to accumulate in a body, causing it to bloat and float to the surface. The colder the water, the longer it takes (also it takes longer in running water than in stagnant water). In water that never gets above 45 degrees, it may never happen. Likewise "in deep very cold water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never resurface". (I can't imagine that she's in the lake though, isn't that UPriver?)

The general time frames suggested vary from days to weeks with the river Thames, which is the only one I saw referenced in the article. I've no clue how that river relates to the Maumee.

The article also does say that even in the even that a body is weighed down in some way it usually delays but does not prevent it from floating eventually.

And finally, it does say that a body in water always floats facedown. So, I guess anyone's hair would be .. accessible... to a fishing hook....

So sorry for the subject matter, just trying to further answer FM's questions.

 

[Inana]

I've read the posts regarding the stroller finally being taken in by LE, but no one has mentioned a car seat. Surely she had one? They are the law. And if so, is it accounted for?


There have been several questions about the river through Toledo so I've done some research:

The Maumee River begins flowing northeastward in Fort Wayne, Ind., at the joining of the St. Joseph and St. Mary's rivers, then empties into Lake Erie in Toledo.

Depth is approximately 18 feet through Toledo, varying of course.

Also flowing into the Maumee, are the rivers Auglaize, Blanchard (via the Auglaize) and Tiffin rivers.

Due to concerns that too much industrial and waste water contaminants had been discharged into the lower portion of the river, the Maumee was federally designated an Area of Concern in 1985.

Evidently it is quite polluted. I think it would be a good civic start on Toledo's part to clean out all the junk, cars, etc., since they know they are there. But that's me.

 

[SCHMAE]

Tomorrow this little one comes home ! Let's pray like crazy people tonight !

 

[LJKaust]

Sending kisses to Elaina and her loved ones *advertiser censored*

 

[Day Dreamer]

This past Sunday was my bday. The only thing I wanted was for baby Elaina to be found. I'm even more heartbroken that she still hasn't come home BUT maybe that "tuft of hair" may be the beginning of Elaina fighting to come back home to her daddy, sissy, & loving grandparents.

I don't know this family; but, I kind of feel like I do in some way through this beautiful baby. My heart aches for them.

 

[Day Dreamer]

I'm no expert.. but the main case I was thinking of when I posted that was Jack Culolias, in Tempe, AZ -

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/01/asu_freshman_jack_culolias_dea.php

It took six weeks for Jack to come up and be found; the article linked above seems to suggest that it would take at *least* two weeks.

But this more detailed article about Jack talks about what takes even longer sometimes -

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/12/body_found_near_tempe_marketpl.php

"A Maricopa County Sheriff's Office helicopter was brought in, as were K-9 units specifically trained to find humans, a robot with sonar that could find objects underwater, and investigators on the ground, but they didn't find any physical clues.

Although it seems strange that the body would be found after what seemed to be a very thorough search, there is a likely answer, albeit a morbid one.

In a very similar situation a couple years back, a Tempe cop explained to us that a body will oftentimes sink to the bottom of a body of water, and remain there until an amount of gases form inside the body, eventually pushing the body to the surface, where it will remain.

Some forensics literature related to human bodies in water confirms this, and the water temperature also appears to be a factor in the time it takes for a body to surface."

(much more at link, as well as this additional link to "forensics literature" on the subject - http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf)

Now, if anyone doesn't want to read about it please skip the rest of my post. I'm going to quote a little bit (nothing even the least bit graphic but still disturbing and gutwrenching in context of Elaina. )




The most pertinent section of the link directly above is the section titled "Effects of Immersion".

Essentially, water temperature and depth are big factors in the time it takes for the gasses to accumulate in a body, causing it to bloat and float to the surface. The colder the water, the longer it takes (also it takes longer in running water than in stagnant water). In water that never gets above 45 degrees, it may never happen. Likewise "in deep very cold water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never resurface". (I can't imagine that she's in the lake though, isn't that UPriver?)

The general time frames suggested vary from days to weeks with the river Thames, which is the only one I saw referenced in the article. I've no clue how that river relates to the Maumee.

The article also does say that even in the even that a body is weighed down in some way it usually delays but does not prevent it from floating eventually.

And finally, it does say that a body in water always floats facedown. So, I guess anyone's hair would be .. accessible... to a fishing hook....

So sorry for the subject matter, just trying to further answer FM's questions.

Does anyone know if underwater robots have been used or if that would be an optional resource to check this new spot due to the depth & murkiness of this water???

No one deserves to be thrown away like trash in a river least of all precious baby Elaina.

I apologize that I could not bold or snip the quote. I'm on my iPhone & couldn't get it to cooperate. That was some great information though. Thank you again for posting.