GUILTY OH - Johnny Clarke, 21, & Lisa Straub, 20, murdered, Springfield Twp, 31 Jan 2011

[SurfieTX]

I believe what they stated was ONLY JCs ankles were taped and NOT LSs. Both of their wrists were taped but only JCs ankles.

I think it was to keep him from running or getting up, which makes me think they attacked him first. One of LS's family members said she always changed after she got home from work. I suspect she and JC were in 2 separate rooms. She was changing, heard the commotion and came into the kitchen and was hit in the head and knocked unconscious. Hence, the blood around her head and the fact that she was partially undressed with no need to tape her ankles.

 

[seekinjustice]

Question?
Why would a person be cussing people out for being snitches... if you have nothing to worry about in the first place?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it was to keep him from running or getting up, which makes me think they attacked him first. One of LS's family members said she always changed after she got home from work. I suspect she and JC were in 2 separate rooms. She was changing, heard the commotion and came into the kitchen and was hit in the head and knocked unconscious. Hence, the blood around her head and the fact that she was partially undressed with no need to tape her ankles.

This case is reminding me more and more of the Billings and Petit cases. Horrible monsters who were up to no good when entering a home uninvited.

I think the main motive was to rob the house they thought was unoccupied at the time because somehow they had gotten wind that the Straub's were away on vacation and had a safe filled with cash in the home.

But what happened after they found Lisa and Johnny there I really don't know, except they cruelly murdered both of them.

If they were not only twisted robbers and mean as snakes then no telling what the victims suffered before they died. It seems that one of them or both of the victims fought for their lives or for the life of the other one.

If these perps were sadistic in nature... knowing they held the fate of two human beings in their hands... then I think the reason Lisa's ankles' weren't bound is they sexually assaulted her. We do not know if her jeans were all the way up or just still on her body. I dont even think Lisa had time to do anything.......not even remove her top before she faced her killer or killers.

Before this happened I believe Johnny had been restrained, but I am not convinced he had already been killed. They would reek their havoc upon Lisa first imo thinking this would make Johnny confess to where the 'non existent' safe was located.

IMO

 

[Sonya610]

If they were not only twisted robbers and mean as snakes then no telling what the victims suffered before they died. It seems that one of them or both of the victims fought for their lives or for the life of the other one.

If these perps were sadistic in nature... knowing they held the fate of two human beings in their hands... then I think the reason Lisa's ankles' weren't bound is they sexually assaulted her.

If she were sexually assaulted the police are keeping it a HUGE secret (not likely). If either of them actually FOUGHT they would have marks to prove it, or there would be killer blood stains. They didn't fight though she probably ran or panicked which is why she was pistol whipped. If she were sexually assaulted even if there was no DNA (yes DNA fanatics quite a few rape victims do not have any DNA evidence on them) there would still be signs, and it would likely have become public.

Based on the method of death and the torn up bedroom closet the killers weren't there for sadistic purposes, sadism would leave a whole lot more injuries. The killers wanted no witnesses, plain and simple.

And heck yeah there are monsters out there, which is why it is a good idea to have a gun close by (within 15') and if one enjoys the company of dogs, get some canine defenders. Have a plan for dealing with the monsters if they arrive.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If she were sexually assaulted the police are keeping it a HUGE secret (not likely). If either of them actually FOUGHT they would have marks to prove it, or there would be killer blood stains. They didn't fight though she probably ran or panicked which is why she was pistol whipped. If she were sexually assaulted even if there was no DNA (yes DNA fanatics quite a few rape victims do not have any DNA evidence on them) there would still be signs, and it would likely have become public.

Based on the method of death and the torn up bedroom closet the killers weren't there for sadistic purposes, sadism would leave a whole lot more injuries. The killers wanted no witnesses, plain and simple.

And heck yeah there are monsters out there, which is why it is a good idea to have a gun close by (within 15') and if one enjoys the company of dogs, get some canine defenders. Have a plan for dealing with the monsters if they arrive.

I see no reason why the police would make it public that Lisa had been sexually assaulted. Why would it be necessary for them to release that?:waitasec:

The police seem to being doing pretty much SOP. They have released that they both died by asphyxiation and I see no need for them to divulge further details. I highly doubt they will release further details about their case.

I don't think we can say with any certainty that neither one of them fought. They may have tussled or tried to tackle one of the suspects but that doesn't mean they would have sustained injuries.

I think Lisa's uncle knows a lot more about what really happened in that house and what it looked like afterward. I believe him when he said "There is a kitchen with an island and an open eating area that went into an open family room. That was not ransacked, but you could tell there was a fight that ensued there," he said. "Plants were knocked over. Things were broken and knocked over......."

I do not know what caused Lisa's injuries or even if a gun was involved. Where did you read she was pistol whipped? I must have missed reading that somehow.

IMO

 

[Wondergirl]

What begins as a profit-motivated crime can easily turn into something that has more psychological roots."

Louis B. Schlesinger, professor of forensic psychology at John Jay college of criminal justice at the City University of New York, said tying someone up and placing a plastic bag over the head "is not a typical or efficient way to kill somebody, so the first thing that comes to my mind is some sort of revenge-type killing, wanting them to suffer."

BBM Below:

Did it look like it was ransacked to the point where it looked like a tv show, because the perps wanted it to be very obvious that robbery was the motive (when really it was only a secondary motive)?

upstairs, Mary Beth and Jeff's room was ransacked to the point where it looked like a TV show. All the drawers were out, and they had punched holes in the walk-in closet looking for a safe that never existed. There was no safe."

BBM Below:

I do wonder why the weapons were left behind. Chaos?

Why the cell phones on their bodies? Message?

Disorganized' killers

Glenn Owen, a former police officer and Army investigator from Texas who develops criminal profiles, said it appears a "disorganized" killer attacked Ms. Straub and Clarke. He cited the chaotic crime scene where the victims' bodies were left in plain sight, and the weapons — the plastic bags and duct tape — were left behind as well.

He suggested the killers are young — 18 to 30 years old — and likely are high school dropouts from broken homes. They may live with an older relative, and if they work, they have nonskilled jobs at a fast-food restaurant or gas station.

Mr. Owen said that although disorganized killers rarely plan an attack, it appears some thought went into this and that they may have known the victims.

"What caught me strange about this case was the mode of death, how they killed them with the plastic bags," he said. "Usually the disorganized killer gets really [angry] and shoots someone or stabs them. To me, it appears they wanted the young couple to suffer, a slow type of suffering."

http://toledoblade.com/article/20110213/NEWS02/110219816

 

[anthony1]

If she were sexually assaulted the police are keeping it a HUGE secret (not likely). If either of them actually FOUGHT they would have marks to prove it, or there would be killer blood stains. They didn't fight though she probably ran or panicked which is why she was pistol whipped. If she were sexually assaulted even if there was no DNA (yes DNA fanatics quite a few rape victims do not have any DNA evidence on them) there would still be signs, and it would likely have become public.

Based on the method of death and the torn up bedroom closet the killers weren't there for sadistic purposes, sadism would leave a whole lot more injuries. The killers wanted no witnesses, plain and simple.

And heck yeah there are monsters out there, which is why it is a good idea to have a gun close by (within 15') and if one enjoys the company of dogs, get some canine defenders. Have a plan for dealing with the monsters if they arrive.

is says no where that lisa was pistol whipped and no she was not sexually assaulted

 

[pspence]

OMG...I wonder if Lisa's parents are going to live in that house or move...I couldn't do it...then again...who would buy it now knowing what went on there...Maytee has been quiet today...hope she is sedated and resting...so horrible this whole thing...wished it would get solved...I still don't think T had anything to do with it.

 

[Hopeful One]

STILL nothing???? I'm shocked. I haven't logged on much this weekend and I thought for SURE this case would be solved quickly.

How annoying that is hasn't been!

 

[notsoconfused]

http://www.facebook.com/notifications.php#!/justice.for.johnny.and.lisa/posts/101006959978498 WOW - That's all I have to say.

I believe that page has now been removed. I can't seem to find it.

 

[future criminologist]

Can anyone tell see what this tattoo is? It's also from the RIP Johnny FB page.

yeah, don't think you'll get anything significant from the "hand signs" the kids are throwing up...all my friends have photos in their Facebooks with hand signs, as a joke, or just a seemingly thing to do in a picture. And my friends aren't in gangs. For all the old folks on here, "gang" signs in a photo don't mean anyone is in a gang. I'd be careful of making that assumption based on a picture.

 

[future criminologist]

I was reading fast and didn't quite see the mention of neck injuries or strangulation. But you could strangle someone/cut off their air supply to the point of passing out, and then stop. The timing of the T call is just precarious. Say they wanted to knock them out, WITHOUT injuring them... Bags on their heads, maybe they watch too much TV (these can't be hardened, epic smart killers), and think, we'll just do this, and then they'll wake up or get free and call for help or "we" can call for help after leaving and then they'll be alive. I dunno. Not trying to be devil's advocate. It's just so mind boggling and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Maybe I'm just hoping that the intent wasn't to make these kids suffer, that it wasn't that sinister, for those poor kids' sake.

Strangling someone to death actually takes a hell of a lot of intent. That's why when strangulation is the method of murder it's easier to prove intent. It can take several minutes and a lot of force on the part of the attacker while the victim struggles, especially with a big/tall victim like JC I'm sure it was an epic struggle. The victim's eyes may be open and looking directly at their killer. There is definitely suffering and it's a horrible way to go. So it'd be pretty hard to accidentally strangle someone to the point of death. As a juror I'd have a hard time believing that the perp did it with the intention of knocking them out and not killing them.

 

[notsoconfused]

Strangling someone to death actually takes a hell of a lot of intent. That's why when strangulation is the method of murder it's easier to prove intent. It can take several minutes and a lot of force on the part of the attacker while the victim struggles, especially with a big/tall victim like JC I'm sure it was an epic struggle. The victim's eyes may be open and looking directly at their killer. There is definitely suffering and it's a horrible way to go. So it'd be pretty hard to accidentally strangle someone to the point of death. As a juror I'd have a hard time believing that the perp did it with the intention of knocking them out and not killing them.

I am with you on that Future Criminologist.

 

[future criminologist]

I can't be the only person who found this key piece of information in the most recent Blade article, can I? (BBM)
http://toledoblade.com/article/20110213/NEWS02/110219816

While Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke can be heard in a recording of her calls to 911 saying that Tiffany said Clarke yelled, "Who are you? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said last week that he actually never said, "Who are you?" "He said, ‘What the [expletive] are you doing, bro? What are you doing here? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. "Him and Lisa knew who these people were."

Never thought I would write this, but I think the operative word in this case is going to be "BRO".

JC KNEW at least one of the people that showed up....but from the "What the F are you doing here", IMO he either wasn't expecting the person to show up at his house (someone recently parolled out of jail perhaps?) or did not have a good relationship with the person. This was someone that he knew who was clearly NOT invited or welcome at this house.

 

[colette]

Some guys call other guys bro without knowing them, especially if they want to get along in a tense situation. It could go either way on that. But it most likely was someone known to them Many of the LE talking about this type of murder says they wanted to see the victims suffer.

 

[Norwegian]

Some guys call other guys bro without knowing them, especially if they want to get along in a tense situation. It could go either way on that. But it most likely was someone known to them Many of the LE talking about this type of murder says they wanted to see the victims suffer.

I agree. One of the things that really puzzled me when I came to the States was that everyone called each other "bro" (males)... even strangers.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Some guys call other guys bro without knowing them, especially if they want to get along in a tense situation. It could go either way on that. But it most likely was someone known to them Many of the LE talking about this type of murder says they wanted to see the victims suffer.

ITA!

I also have seen young guys call someone they don't even know 'bro."

I still am not convinced either way if they knew these perps or not. I am convinced whomever it was they did not want them there and wondered why in the heck they were there.

IMO

 

[Wondergirl]

I can't be the only person who found this key piece of information in the most recent Blade article, can I? (BBM)
http://toledoblade.com/article/20110213/NEWS02/110219816



Never thought I would write this, but I think the operative word in this case is going to be "BRO".

JC KNEW at least one of the people that showed up....but from the "What the F are you doing here", IMO he either wasn't expecting the person to show up at his house (someone recently parolled out of jail perhaps?) or did not have a good relationship with the person. This was someone that he knew who was clearly NOT invited or welcome at this house.

Thanks, FC.

Not only did I notice the "Bro", but, when I originally listened to the 911 call by MV on HLN, I wondered at the time why there wasn't any swearing (if it had been omitted by JCs mother), because, if the questions were asked by Johnny at a time of apprehension, both the tone and emphasis on the words would have been just as important as the words themselves.

eg. What the [expletive] are YOU doing, bro?

eg. What the [expletive] are YOU DOING, bro?

eg. What the [expletive] are you DOING, bro?

 

[Wondergirl]

I also think it is odd that if a complete stranger was in the home, that Johnny wouldn't have said "get out of here" and why didn't Lisa and/or Johnny scream?

 

[Wondergirl]

For further reference as to what the 911 call has now been corrected to, according to Johnny's mother, here is what the Blade recently published:

Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said last week that he actually never said, "Who are you?"

"He said, ‘What the [expletive] are you doing, bro? What are you doing here? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. "Him and Lisa knew who these people were."

http://toledoblade.com/article/20110213/NEWS02/110219816