OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

[rsd1200]

Billy's yup, yup and nope were surly and he continues to carry a brutish appearance. The lawyer standing on Billy's right patted Billy on the back more than a few times. There is not a drop of humility in that Wagner body.

He'll fit right in. It's sorta like high school in the pen. His bunch has a table. They're not the sharpest knives in the drawer but they'll cut ya. He likely thinks he'll win, and he might. I have to remind myself that he is innocent as of right now.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

So, question answered in #BillyWagner's case in Pike County, Ohio today. Judge Randy Deering, who is retiring, will not preside as a visiting judge in BW's trial. Current Prosecutor Rob Junk (and judge-elect) has a conflict. Andy Wilson has a new gig as Head of Ohio's Department of Public Safety - so it would be unlikely that he will be part of the prosecution team. An assistant prosecutor named Michael Davis was in court today. Ohio's Supreme Court will appoint a visiting judge to hear case. Judge Deering must retire in February. Judges in Ohio cannot run for re-election past age 70. Deering is 74.

 

[Betty P]

He'll fit right in. It's sorta like high school in the pen. His bunch has a table. They're not the sharpest knives in the drawer but they'll cut ya. He likely thinks he'll win, and he might. I have to remind myself that he is innocent as of right now.

Great description, thanks! I kind of wondered that about Billy. He sounds like he's always liked being a criminal, a lifestyle for him. Sounds like he'll have a lot in common with the others there. Stories to tell, etc.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT

Billy Wagner's hearing in Pike Co. lasted 5 mins. Nothing major. BUT - 1 of his attys said afterward that Billy looks forward to taking his case to trial & said the trial will be much different than that of his son, now convicted killer George Wagner IV. #WLWT #PikeCountyMassacre

After today's hearing for #BillyWagner, one of his attorneys, Mark Collins, said (after seeing their client last week): "We informed him of his options, & he said he definitely wants to go to trial. He is focused & he's going to be an active participant.." 1/2 #WLWT

 

[rsd1200]

Great description, thanks! I kind of wondered that about Billy. He sounds like he's always liked being a criminal, a lifestyle for him. Sounds like he'll have a lot in common with the others there. Stories to tell, etc.

When they need brawn not brains that's the table they'll call. Edit:I don't mean to call him an idiot, b/c he seems to have easily killed CR1 and helped to put it in motion. He just seems like one of those loud, obnoxious, spits as they speak, always borderline dangerous, guys, we've all seen at the old Chillicothe Bike Meets, back in the hey days. You always felt like they were a step away from going there with someone.

 

[Betty P]

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

So, question answered in #BillyWagner's case in Pike County, Ohio today. Judge Randy Deering, who is retiring, will not preside as a visiting judge in BW's trial. Current Prosecutor Rob Junk (and judge-elect) has a conflict. Andy Wilson has a new gig as Head of Ohio's Department of Public Safety - so it would be unlikely that he will be part of the prosecution team. An assistant prosecutor named Michael Davis was in court today. Ohio's Supreme Court will appoint a visiting judge to hear case. Judge Deering must retire in February. Judges in Ohio cannot run for re-election past age 70. Deering is 74.

We're all hoping they'll appoint Judge Deering as the visiting judge. I think they do allow retired judges to serve in that capacity. Maybe not. Remember, DeWine's son is a justice on the Ohio Supreme Ct.

 

[Dudly]

IMO, I wondered if he is even capable of telling the (whole) truth.

People like him that have lied their whole life eventually think their lies are truth. They can’t tell the difference between recalling the truth and recalling a lie.

People hearing a lie often enough will eventually accept it as truth. Josef Gobbles, Minister of Propaganda for Hitler used that on the population…

 

[Dudly]

@Angenette5
·
2h

So, question answered in #BillyWagner's case in Pike County, Ohio today. Judge Randy Deering, who is retiring, will not preside as a visiting judge in BW's trial. Current Prosecutor Rob Junk (and judge-elect) has a conflict. Andy Wilson has a new gig
@LawCrimeNetwork

I believe that Deering presiding and Andy Wilson helping prosecute was left unanswered as in it depends on future decisions…

 

[rsd1200]

I wonder what "defense" they will present for ole Billy? Blame it all on George and Jake? He was really home having a lovely evening watching a princess movie with his wife and grandkids? You know the first time he was over there overnight in months and then the good caring father and grandfather he is, he decided to stay a few more nights there to ensure everyone felt safe from the big bad murders going around killing his best friend and his entire family? ugh Or was it he was drugged on his pain pills and fell asleep. Didn't know nothing about a murder truck.. his boys must have stole the truck he bought for his niece and kept hidden in the garage and the he woke up that next morning with a wild hair to go gift the truck to her before the sun was even up.. then decided to detail that truck for her one day at the FWF because he's just such a great uncle. Or maybe mommy trauma or the cartel made him?

I am hard pressed to see one unless this jury can discount both testimonies of AW and JW combined. After I learned of JW's entire testimony, yes, it matches enough that any embellishments he may have done, liberty with the truth, didn't really matter. If they get JW's testimony thrown out, that would be huge.

 

[Cool Cats]

Here is a little more detail about Billy shooting Frankie from Jake's testimony and Jake adds other details about Dana and explains his smile.

'An Answer from God': Jake Wagner Details Why He Confessed to Pike County Massacre, Faces Cross-Examination at Brother's Trial

Jake Wagner testified that he confessed to planning and carrying out the murders after he felt he'd received "an answer from God."

lawandcrime.com

Wagner also added information about shooting Frankie Rhoden and his fiancee, Hannah Hazel Gilley. Wagner admitted he shot Frankie once in the head and Gilley once in the eye. During his direct testimony, he said that he shot both of them.

On cross-examination, however, Wagner said that he handed his gun to his father after shooting both victims so he could look for their cell phones and shell casings. At that time, he said Billy Wagner used his Colt 1911 .22 to shoot Frankie Rhoden in the head a couple of more times even though he was dead. Parker seized on the new detail. Wagner said he told prosecutors about this in “July-ish” of this year after meeting with them at the jail but did not include the information in his proffer.

Wagner also appeared to add another detail about the shootings of Dana Manley Rhoden and Hanna May Rhoden. When asked about those events, he said that he looked under Dana Rhoden’s door because it was closed and could see her in bed on her cell phone so he “stood up” and went to a “pivot point.” His earlier testimony appeared to say he could see both Dana and Hanna May as he stood in the same spot in the hallway of the home.

Wagner reiterated that he froze after seeing Dana Rhoden on her phone but snapped out of it when Hanna May’s newborn baby, Kylie, began to cry. He said he saw Hanna May resting on her elbow to tend to the baby and in a now-or-never moment, he took a stride and shot Dana before shooting Hanna May. He said she gasped upon seeing him. Wagner said the light was on “as bright as it is in here” in Hanna May’s bedroom which drew more questions from Parker as it was after midnight.

Crime scene photos showed Dana Rhoden with a pillow covering her face and her brother testified that it was “stuck” to her face. Wagner said he didn’t remember placing the pillow on her or covering her up.

Parker asked Wagner about smiling when he was asked about moving Hanna May’s body so Kylie wouldn’t starve to death, he said he wasn’t smiling. “That’s not what it is. Ask anyone that knows me. I smile at the worst time.”

 

[Betty P]

I believe that Deering presiding and Andy Wilson helping prosecute was left unanswered as in it depends on future decisions…

More information from Supreme Court of Ohio Guidelines for Judicial Assignment

https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/docs/JCS/judicialAssignment/judgeAssignGuide.pdf

2.03. Requests for Assignment due to Recusal.
(A) Single-judge court or division
In the event of the recusal of a judge in a single-judge court or division, the judge
may request the Chief Justice to assign a sitting or retired judge as an assigned judge
to the court or division. The judge shall not request the Chief Justice to assign a
specific sitting or retired judge.

May or may not apply in this situation, but in case of a recusal, the Supremes can assign a sitting or retired judge. As it points out, the recusal judge (in this case, after Feb 8, Junk) makes the request of the Supremes. That's what Judge Deering said today. Once Junk is sworn in, he will recuse himself and send a request to the the OH Supreme Court. It will be up to them to choose a judge, but it can be either a sitting or retired judge.

If the Supremes appoint a new judge, will there be a delay to allow the new judge to familiarize himself with the case, or no?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I can see this. Most folks don't have a clue where the Appalachian Region of the United States even is and don't care. <modsnip - comparing attention/coverage of different case(s) is not allowed> People here didn't even fully catch wind of the R/G case, and we're within a few hours' drive at most. A few clips on t.v. <modsnip - comparing attention/coverage of different case(s) is not allowed> Our family said from day one this was likely a family feud on the R/G case. Both families were in the drug trade, both families were fighting over custody, and another family was into it over custody of the youngest. It was either custody or drugs. That's infighting. Yes, JW is a special kind of killer, to have done what he did, and his mother combined, but we have two very insular, families, and it had to be one, or both. I see both. It's a story we see a lot in the news, unfortunately. Just not in the magnitude that the W4 took it too b/c of fear of retribution.

One family was aware there might be a custody battle in court.
The other family thought mass murder was the way to get custody.
So I'm not calling that "infighting."
And I don't see the Rhodens, Manleys or Gilleys as "insular." The adults were employed in typical jobs. The kids went to public high school. They had strong ties with extended family and friends. They didn't try to cut the other family out of custody and visitation. The only Rhoden who had any illegal drugs in his or her system was Gary, who struggled with addiction and whom Chris and Kenneth were trying to help.

Meanwhile, the Wagners are essentially a crime family, involved in theft and arson as well as mass murder. I'm not thinking that "both families were the same."

 

[sunshineray]

I am hard pressed to see one unless this jury can discount both testimonies of AW and JW combined. After I learned of JW's entire testimony, yes, it matches enough that any embellishments he may have done, liberty with the truth, didn't really matter. If they get JW's testimony thrown out, that would be huge.

JW will be testifying Independently, uniquely and in-person for BW's trial. The defense cannot stop the prosecution from calling JW to the stand nor testifying to what he did and witnessed. The best that the defense can do, that I can see, is discredit JW's testimony with cross examination and rebuttal witnesses. In what way could the defense be able to have JW's testimony thrown out?

 

[Chelly]

youtube wagner hearing jan 18
WLWT CHANNEL 5

 

[Chelly]

I believe that Deering presiding and Andy Wilson helping prosecute was left unanswered as in it depends on future decisions…

Deering announced his retirement effective Feb 8

 

[rsd1200]

Here is a little more detail about Billy shooting Frankie from Jake's testimony and Jake adds other details about Dana and explains his smile.

'An Answer from God': Jake Wagner Details Why He Confessed to Pike County Massacre, Faces Cross-Examination at Brother's Trial

Jake Wagner testified that he confessed to planning and carrying out the murders after he felt he'd received "an answer from God."

lawandcrime.com

Wagner also added information about shooting Frankie Rhoden and his fiancee, Hannah Hazel Gilley. Wagner admitted he shot Frankie once in the head and Gilley once in the eye. During his direct testimony, he said that he shot both of them.

On cross-examination, however, Wagner said that he handed his gun to his father after shooting both victims so he could look for their cell phones and shell casings. At that time, he said Billy Wagner used his Colt 1911 .22 to shoot Frankie Rhoden in the head a couple of more times even though he was dead. Parker seized on the new detail. Wagner said he told prosecutors about this in “July-ish” of this year after meeting with them at the jail but did not include the information in his proffer.

Wagner also appeared to add another detail about the shootings of Dana Manley Rhoden and Hanna May Rhoden. When asked about those events, he said that he looked under Dana Rhoden’s door because it was closed and could see her in bed on her cell phone so he “stood up” and went to a “pivot point.” His earlier testimony appeared to say he could see both Dana and Hanna May as he stood in the same spot in the hallway of the home.

Wagner reiterated that he froze after seeing Dana Rhoden on her phone but snapped out of it when Hanna May’s newborn baby, Kylie, began to cry. He said he saw Hanna May resting on her elbow to tend to the baby and in a now-or-never moment, he took a stride and shot Dana before shooting Hanna May. He said she gasped upon seeing him. Wagner said the light was on “as bright as it is in here” in Hanna May’s bedroom which drew more questions from Parker as it was after midnight.

Crime scene photos showed Dana Rhoden with a pillow covering her face and her brother testified that it was “stuck” to her face. Wagner said he didn’t remember placing the pillow on her or covering her up.

Parker asked Wagner about smiling when he was asked about moving Hanna May’s body so Kylie wouldn’t starve to death, he said he wasn’t smiling. “That’s not what it is. Ask anyone that knows me. I smile at the worst time.”

BIBM
I am not sure if JW is misremembering, or retelling the story his way, but still testifying to the prosecution's satisfaction. I personally feel it is the latter.

My dad shot FR after he died while I looked for casings and cell phones;

Inside the bedroom was a bloody scene, Fortner said. Hannah Hazel and Frankie were in bed and Fortner noted two cell phones in a baby's crib near the bed that he collected and documented.
Lividity on Frankie and Hannah Hazel's bodies indicated they hadn't been moved after they were killed, Fortner said. In or near the bed, Fortner found five different cartridge casings from a rimstrike bullet stamped on the end with the letters "REM," indicating they were Remington brand bullets, he said.

Frankie was shot four times, all in the head. Lividity indicated he'd been lying on his back when he was killed, with one arm over his head. He did not have any indication of stippling, soot or burn marks on him, Looman said. She said each shot he sustained came from an indeterminate distance, meaning greater than 3 feet away; by contrast, the stippling on Hannah Hazel indicated one shot to her head was made between 3 inches and 3 feet away. (she states nothing about post mortem shots to either of the two.)

JW's retelling of the murder of HMR, DR, and CR2. No matter his retelling, and his storyline, he takes full responsibility for these three murders, each time. Someone covered her face, and someone covered CR1 and GR maybe with him (BJM even says something about pulling back a cover iirc). Maybe it was JW, maybe it wasn't, but he does admit to murder.

JW admits to murdering them all, initially. It's just not possible. Especially given the facts at CR1's trailer.

Two, possibly three, of the victims may have been fully asleep. I don't feel the others were. JM2, my own personal theory.

KR was murdered by the same caliber gun as CR1 and GR. G3's firearm.

Dr. Looman said Kenneth Wagner's cause of death was a single gunshot wound to the head, through the right eye. Dr. Looman said the bullet found inside Kenneth's skull was very similar in size to those found with Chris Sr.'s body and had the red plug. A cartridge case was also found on the bed.

All the W4 are as full of $4*t as a Christmas turkey but JW's full testimony, when stripped of embellishments or misremembering, and the facts presented by those who investigated the case, do line up.

MSN

Pike County murder trial: Testimony moves to scene where Hannah Hazel Gilley, Frankie Rhoden found dead

Testimony in the trial of a man accused of murdering eight people in Pike County continued Wednesday, with the agent who lead the investigation at one of four different crime scenes discovered.

www.wcpo.com

 

[rsd1200]

One family was aware there might be a custody battle in court.
The other family thought mass murder was the way to get custody.
So I'm not calling that "infighting."
And I don't see the Rhodens, Manleys or Gilleys as "insular." The adults were employed in typical jobs. The kids went to public high school. They had strong ties with extended family and friends. They didn't try to cut the other family out of custody and visitation. The only Rhoden who had any illegal drugs in his or her system was Gary, who struggled with addiction and whom Chris and Kenneth were trying to help.

Meanwhile, the Wagners are essentially a crime family, involved in theft and arson as well as mass murder. I'm not thinking that "both families were the same."

In my neck of the woods, we are all isolated (insular). Families stick together. Maybe we misunderstand what it means to one another? They were; Once a Rhoden always a Rhoden, fought together, and played together. Clannish? If you prefer? Bound together by feelings of very close associations clannish family that can be rather cool to outsiders (that's the large majority of us here.). In-fighting is a fight between two families or within a family for control. It's just the way I see it. If you don't that's cool.

 

[rsd1200]

JW will be testifying Independently, uniquely and in-person for BW's trial. The defense cannot stop the prosecution from calling JW to the stand nor testifying to what he did and witnessed. The best that the defense can do, that I can see, is discredit JW's testimony with cross examination and rebuttal witnesses. In what way could the defense be able to have JW's testimony thrown out?

I didn't say they could get it thrown out. Please re-read my post.

 

[Dudly]

One family was aware there might be a custody battle in court.
The other family thought mass murder was the way to get custody.
So I'm not calling that "infighting."
And I don't see the Rhodens, Manleys or Gilleys as "insular." The adults were employed in typical jobs. The kids went to public high school. They had strong ties with extended family and friends. They didn't try to cut the other family out of custody and visitation. The only Rhoden who had any illegal drugs in his or her system was Gary, who struggled with addiction and whom Chris and Kenneth were trying to help.

Meanwhile, the Wagners are essentially a crime family, involved in theft and arson as well as mass murder. I'm not thinking that "both families were the same."

The two families were nearly polar opposites when it came to family values.
Wagner’s took every advantage of each other and used each other as best that they could. The Rhodens helped each other as best they could.
GWIII and AW getting together was a perfect storm for abusing the system and illegal activities…

 

[rsd1200]

The two families were nearly polar opposites when it came to family values.
Wagner’s took every advantage of each other and used each other as best that they could. The Rhodens helped each other as best they could.
GWIII and AW getting together was a perfect storm for abusing the system and illegal activities…

Family differences in regard to human life are what I see most especially. If the W4 were concerned about "the children", they'd have never done what they did. It was all about getting their way b/c it was the only way to get their way. They could not beat the Rs/HHG. At anything. They began to hate them.