GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[IType]

I believe this infi resulted from road rage incident report where a driver called 911 saying Billy held gun to Angie's head. When pulled over glock found in Angie's purse. From an article titled father in rhoden murders hadhistory of felonies

I have my doubts the other acts evidence for BW stating he threatened AW with a gun is in reference to the "road rage" incident. I believe it to be something else based on this info from article linked below:

"An Ohio State Highway Patrol investigation report shows troopers understood Uhl’s call to police as him reporting “a male driver was holding a handgun to the head of a woman passenger.”

But Uhl — contacted by the newspaper — disputes the Highway Patrol’s records in the incident. The gun was not pointed at a woman’s head, he told the newspaper, “He was flashing it at us.”

“He wouldn’t let me pass him,” Uhl said, recalling his car and the Jeep both met at a stoplight. “There was never a gun held to anyone’s head, he just held up the gun to say, ‘I mean business.’”

Bolded by me.
Link:
Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

 

[IType]

I believe this infi resulted from road rage incident report where a driver called 911 saying Billy held gun to Angie's head. When pulled over glock found in Angie's purse. From an article titled father in rhoden murders hadhistory of felonies

I was typing my reply at the same time CC was also replying. I didn't see CC's post until after I had posted mine. In fact, we even quoted from the same link!

Don't want you to think we're ganging up on you!

 

[IType]

You can click on the “report” link at the bottom of any post. When the “report reason” box pops up, you can state you are not reporting the post but have a question.\

Thanks!

 

[Betty P]

I have my doubts the other acts evidence for BW stating he threatened AW with a gun is in reference to the "road rage" incident. I believe it to be something else based on this info from article linked below:

"An Ohio State Highway Patrol investigation report shows troopers understood Uhl’s call to police as him reporting “a male driver was holding a handgun to the head of a woman passenger.”

But Uhl — contacted by the newspaper — disputes the Highway Patrol’s records in the incident. The gun was not pointed at a woman’s head, he told the newspaper, “He was flashing it at us.”

“He wouldn’t let me pass him,” Uhl said, recalling his car and the Jeep both met at a stoplight. “There was never a gun held to anyone’s head, he just held up the gun to say, ‘I mean business.’”

Bolded by me.
Link:
Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

JMO, it's probably safe to say that any man who participates in the spree murder of 8 innocent people has anger issues and is probably violent at home.

According to testimony, JW was violent with Hanna Rhoden, GW3 pulled a gun on his wife Angela Wagner as well as the GW4's significant other. It's highly likely GW4 engaged in domestic violence, too.

The Wagners appear to have been a dysfunctional family who felt no shame about violent behavior towards others. JMO

JMO

Risk and Protective Factors|Intimate Partner Violence|Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC

 

[Betty P]

I believe this infi resulted from road rage incident report where a driver called 911 saying Billy held gun to Angie's head. When pulled over glock found in Angie's purse. From an article titled father in rhoden murders hadhistory of felonies

Welcome to Websleuths, Piffcat! I hope you enjoy visiting here. We always like to welcome new members!

 

[NWLady]

I have a question which may be a dumb one but I'm going to ask anyway...

"If" AW was hospitalized/institutionalized somewhere for say example, mental health treatment, would that be documented say under court orders and/or motion that patient was somewhere else other than the jail where she has been since her arrest?

Also, if she has been and/or currently is working on a plea deal, say for example, prior to even JW's plea, would a plea still be possible for her now?

I am just trying to figure out possible reasons for her not being in court for over a year now?! And on that note, another thought I just had was, can a medical professional recommend that for a patient's best interest that a person not be subject to public court appearances?

This is all just my own thoughts/questions and I am in no way insinuating that any of these things pertain here, but rather just food for thought...

TIA to any answers and/or thoughts regarding these things.

 

[Cool Cats]

I have a question which may be a dumb one but I'm going to ask anyway...

"If" AW was hospitalized/institutionalized somewhere for say example, mental health treatment, would that be documented say under court orders and/or motion that patient was somewhere else other than the jail where she has been since her arrest?

Also, if she has been and/or currently is working on a plea deal, say for example, prior to even JW's plea, would a plea still be possible for her now?

I am just trying to figure out possible reasons for her not being in court for over a year now?! And on that note, another thought I just had was, can a medical professional recommend that for a patient's best interest that a person not be subject to public court appearances?

This is all just my own thoughts/questions and I am in no way insinuating that any of these things pertain here, but rather just food for thought...

TIA to any answers and/or thoughts regarding these things.

The Motion:

ALLOW TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES

Was already granted and it covers any travel she needs for medical purposes. She could have been taken to a variety of medical places but they don't file a Motion for each one individually.

For inpatient care she would be under the jurisdiction of the Sheriff, jails are run by the Sheriff. The jail would document the specifics of where she was taken. Deputies would always be with her 24/7.

If Angie was too ill to go into court they would do her Hearing through video chat. Many places do this now because of the virus. Would we know if she had a Hearing using video chat? Most likely. I have seen media coverage of these types of Hearings and they go on the Docket. Also, that medical travel request wasn't even filed until February 2020 when she had already been away from Court for 8 months.

As for plea bargaining the families have to approve it and in my opinion I am sure the families will not do any plea deal with Angela without her pleading guilty to all 8 murders.

What would the prosecution gain from her plea bargain?

The prosecution gains what the 3 families want which is a guilty plea and avoiding a long public trial. George's trial is scheduled for 3 weeks.

What would Angela gain from her plea bargain?

Avoiding all her "dirty laundry" from being publicly aired in a trial and maybe the slight possibility of getting a few charges dropped.

Part of Jake's plea agreement is testifying against his family members. What if all of them do not go to trial? He still keeps his plea. The families already got the most important thing they wanted from him - his guilty plea.

The Docket shows that even though she has not been in Court for a year her attorneys have still been working on her Case. Also, they would have been having meetings with her all along disclosing and going over tons evidence, trial strategy, Jake's plea, her jail calls, their expert's conclusions, the over a dozen other alternative suspects, all those private investigator reports of which there are many of those, etc...

09/11/2020 and on 09/16/2020 DEFENDANT'S REPLY TO STATE'S MOTION FOR EXTENTION OF TIME AND MOTION TO COMPEL DISCOVERY

01/15/2021 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT (REPORTER) EXPENSES

02/12/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PERMIT TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES

02/22/2021 NOTICE OF INTENT TO USE OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE

02/22/2021 ORDER GRANTING THE REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES

04/26/2021 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES

04/28/2021 STATE'S SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY

06/14/2021 MOTION TO PERMIT TELEPHONE CONTACT WITH FAMILY

06/23/2021 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERTS AND/OR EXPENSES

Recently:
07/06/2021 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES

... 2 Cent Opinion ...

 

[Birdnerd71]

GWIII has a hearing set
09/16/2021 11:00 AM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: ORAL HEARING ON DEFENDANT'S MOTION FILED 06-28-21 Date: 09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM


06/28/2021 50. DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO COMPEL THE PROSECUTION TO PROVIDE ANY WRITTEN AND RECORDED STATEMENTS FROM THE CO-DEFENDANT AND THE EVIDENCE DERIVED FROM THE STATEMENTS WITH REQUEST FOR ORAL HEARING FILED Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F

 

[Piffcat]

I have my doubts the other acts evidence for BW stating he threatened AW with a gun is in reference to the "road rage" incident. I believe it to be something else based on this info from article linked below:

"An Ohio State Highway Patrol investigation report shows troopers understood Uhl’s call to police as him reporting “a male driver was holding a handgun to the head of a woman passenger.”

But Uhl — contacted by the newspaper — disputes the Highway Patrol’s records in the incident. The gun was not pointed at a woman’s head, he told the newspaper, “He was flashing it at us.”

“He wouldn’t let me pass him,” Uhl said, recalling his car and the Jeep both met at a stoplight. “There was never a gun held to anyone’s head, he just held up the gun to say, ‘I mean business.’”

Bolded by me.
Link:
Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

Yes this event is the road rage incident I was referring to. I doubt there was another seperate incident. Imo billy was a passenger aw driving. They got mad at someone on road Billy pulled gun. In order to point it across the lane at car who angered him aw would be in crossfire. While details are sketchy bottomline someone called 911 stating billy was threatening with a gun which after a search of car found a glock 40 caliber in her purse. People give these overweight bonny and clyde all the benefit of the doubt I dont understand it. Aw or bw would murder any of us and sleep like a baby. Bad Billy tried that tough guy stuff w crsr and got his butt whooped and gun taken. The rage billy felt over this must have been extreme. Remember billy and angela were the PARENTS
No matter how evil he is clearly without aw and be around to think for him had at least a human response to this situation. Killing 8 ppl is unspeakably evil but acting like u didnt and hiding behind this reasonable doubt csi polluted justice system

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes this event is the road rage incident I was referring to. I doubt there was another seperate incident. Imo billy was a passenger aw driving. They got mad at someone on road Billy pulled gun. In order to point it across the lane at car who angered him aw would be in crossfire. While details are sketchy bottomline someone called 911 stating billy was threatening with a gun which after a search of car found a glock 40 caliber in her purse. People give these overweight bonny and clyde all the benefit of the doubt I dont understand it. Aw or bw would murder any of us and sleep like a baby. Bad Billy tried that tough guy stuff w crsr and got his butt whooped and gun taken. The rage billy felt over this must have been extreme. Remember billy and angela were the PARENTS
No matter how evil he is clearly without aw and be around to think for him had at least a human response to this situation. Killing 8 ppl is unspeakably evil but acting like u didnt and hiding behind this reasonable doubt csi polluted justice system

CSI polluted ... ?

Go back a bit you will see IType posted the interview with the driver who called 911 in Billy's road rage. Obviously Billy was driving and he only flashed a gun at the driver, not at Angela.

At Billy's last Hearing the defense denied all of Billy's Other Acts Evidence so
unless Angela told Canepa about Billy pulling a gun on her the only way for the prosecution to know about this is from a witness. The prosecution did talk to the 2 EX wives as seen in the Other Acts Evidence. They explain how they were mistreated and abused by the Wagners.

I think it went down like this:

An argument ensued and Billy lost his temper when Angela said something that "rattled his cage." He then went to the place on his property where he keeps his guns and quickly grabbed one and went back to where Angela was and started "flashing" his gun at her. One of the EX wives was in the room and witnessed it.

Other Acts Evidence as posted by Covert Operator who said this is Moderator approved:

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org
Filed in Common Pleas Court on 2-22-21

 

[Betty P]

Yes this event is the road rage incident I was referring to. I doubt there was another seperate incident. Imo billy was a passenger aw driving. They got mad at someone on road Billy pulled gun. In order to point it across the lane at car who angered him aw would be in crossfire. While details are sketchy bottomline someone called 911 stating billy was threatening with a gun which after a search of car found a glock 40 caliber in her purse. People give these overweight bonny and clyde all the benefit of the doubt I dont understand it. Aw or bw would murder any of us and sleep like a baby. Bad Billy tried that tough guy stuff w crsr and got his butt whooped and gun taken. The rage billy felt over this must have been extreme. Remember billy and angela were the PARENTS
No matter how evil he is clearly without aw and be around to think for him had at least a human response to this situation. Killing 8 ppl is unspeakably evil but acting like u didnt and hiding behind this reasonable doubt csi polluted justice system

True about the Wagner family. Remember, their favorite movie was "Boondock Saints", so they also managed to rationalize their violent behavior by pretending they were religious saviors purging society of those they disliked. Very dangerous movie when you think about it.

I don't think any of the other 3 Wagners will be able to pull a scam in their trials. There's too much evidence against all of them. Too many instances of their hostility, anger, violent behavior.

 

[Betty P]

GWIII has a hearing set
09/16/2021 11:00 AM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: ORAL HEARING ON DEFENDANT'S MOTION FILED 06-28-21 Date: 09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM


06/28/2021 50. DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO COMPEL THE PROSECUTION TO PROVIDE ANY WRITTEN AND RECORDED STATEMENTS FROM THE CO-DEFENDANT AND THE EVIDENCE DERIVED FROM THE STATEMENTS WITH REQUEST FOR ORAL HEARING FILED Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F

Welcome to Websleuths, Birdnerd71! It's nice we have so many new members taking an interest in finding justice for the Rhodens and Hannah Gilley.

 

[Betty P]

CSI polluted ... ?

Go back a bit you will see IType posted the interview with the driver who called 911 in Billy's road rage. Obviously Billy was driving and he only flashed a gun at the driver, not at Angela.

At Billy's last Hearing the defense denied all of Billy's Other Acts Evidence so
unless Angela told Canepa about Billy pulling a gun on her the only way for the prosecution to know about this is from a witness. The prosecution did talk to the 2 EX wives as seen in the Other Acts Evidence. They explain how they were mistreated and abused by the Wagners.

I think it went down like this:

An argument ensued and Billy lost his temper when Angela said something that "rattled his cage." He then went to the place on his property where he keeps his guns and quickly grabbed one and went back to where Angela was and started "flashing" his gun at her. One of the EX wives was in the room and witnessed it.

Other Acts Evidence as posted by Covert Operator who said this is Moderator approved:

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org
Filed in Common Pleas Court on 2-22-21

Thanks for posting these again. Is there any way you could post copies of them in the Media & Timelines Thread? It would be really helpful as these docs are an important reference, giving us the background of the dynamics of the Wagner family, as well as events leading up to the murders.

TIA

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for posting these again. Is there any way you could post copies of them in the Media & Timelines Thread? It would be really helpful as these docs are an important reference, giving us the background of the dynamics of the Wagner family, as well as events leading up to the murders.

TIA

Mission accomplished ... !

 

[Betty P]

Mission accomplished ... !

Thank you! That's been one of the most comprehensive, revealing documents about the 4 Wagners, their lives and how and why the plotted and carried out the murders.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you! That's been one of the most comprehensive, revealing documents about the 4 Wagners, their lives and how and why the plotted and carried out the murders.

Straw that broke the camel's back?

Note the Other Acts Evidence was filed with the Common Pleas Court in February then in April, maybe end of March, Jake started cooperating and pled guilty. On April 22nd Canepa said he had been cooperating for a while.

Obvious to me that Jake read his "character assassination" before deciding to plead guilty. The Other Acts was filed exactly 2 months, February 22nd, prior to Jake going to Court to plead guilty on April 22nd.

"Final straw"
So it seems.

This is the LAST straw! I've had "It"!

 

[Betty P]

Straw that broke the camel's back?

Note the Other Acts Evidence was filed with the Common Pleas Court in February then in April, maybe end of March, Jake started cooperating and pled guilty. On April 22nd Canepa said he had been cooperating for a while.

Obvious to me that Jake read his "character assassination" before deciding to plead guilty. The Other Acts was filed exactly 2 months, February 22nd, prior to Jake going to Court to plead guilty on April 22nd.

"Final straw"
So it seems.

This is the LAST straw! I've had "It"!

Oh, yes, it definitely set things in motion, combined with the prosecution's good finish at the last part of 2020. I'm sure it was a real "come to Jesus" moment for JW, as the state intended.

 

[Tiff23fr]

JMO, it's probably safe to say that any man who participates in the spree murder of 8 innocent people has anger issues and is probably violent at home.

According to testimony, JW was violent with Hanna Rhoden, GW3 pulled a gun on his wife Angela Wagner as well as the GW4's significant other. It's highly likely GW4 engaged in domestic violence, too.

The Wagners appear to have been a dysfunctional family who felt no shame about violent behavior towards others. JMO

JMO

Risk and Protective Factors|Intimate Partner Violence|Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC

I do agree with this perspective BettyP.
My point of view is there is likely an intergenerational dynamic of acceptable norms in play. I can’t point to or say where it began, as that would be pure speculation, but such morally acceptable norms are developed and evolve over time.
To be clear, I am not saying they are acceptable by our standards or the standards of the rule of law. However, they became acceptable to this operating family unit of 4 as a function of norm, or means in achieving their desired outcomes in given situations over time. It is like a small cancer that grows and evolves when there is no intervention.
Norms can shift and be altered, we hear about individuals who “break the cycle”. Unfortunately, it is less likely to occur when such behaviors have proved fruitful to achieving desired results time and again. In these situations, there has typically been no course correcting intervention to change a shift in thinking and/or no negative consequences to shift the pattern.

 

[Dudly]

I do agree with this perspective BettyP.
My point of view is there is likely an intergenerational dynamic of acceptable norms in play. I can’t point to or say where it began, as that would be pure speculation, but such morally acceptable norms are developed and evolve over time.
To be clear, I am not saying they are acceptable by our standards or the standards of the rule of law. However, they became acceptable to this operating family unit of 4 as a function of norm, or means in achieving their desired outcomes in given situations over time. It is like a small cancer that grows and evolves when there is no intervention.
Norms can shift and be altered, we hear about individuals who “break the cycle”. Unfortunately, it is less likely to occur when such behaviors have proved fruitful to achieving desired results time and again. In these situations, there has typically been no course correcting intervention to change a shift in thinking and/or no negative consequences to shift the pattern.

Thank you for your thoughts on the Ws behaviors. It makes sense that the way the boys treated girlfriends and/or wives was witnessed by them to be what works to get their desired result. What was normal to them is likely not normal in society. We may learn more about that as the cases progress...

 

[Cool Cats]

Oh, yes, it definitely set things in motion, combined with the prosecution's good finish at the last part of 2020. I'm sure it was a real "come to Jesus" moment for JW, as the state intended.

Yup! Add more damaging evidence and he got backed into a corner.
I think it is these 3 together that forced his guilty plea.

Transcripts of George's Bond Hearing

09/21/2020
The Court ordered that the Prosecution provide a transcript of George's Bond Hearing.

So Jake learned how his Case will play out in front of 12 jurors and how overwhelming the evidence is when a gun savvy very knowledgeable Special Agent and a tenacious sharp Prosecutor meticulously lay it all out. Including purchases for the murder kit along with ballistic/silencer evidence and bloody shoe print photos from 2 crime scenes.

Transcripts of Wagner Recordings

03/09/2021 (MOTION #55.1)
DEFENDANT'S SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF TRANSCRIPTS OF AUDIO RECORDINGS.

Jake gets to read all the transcripts of the audio recordings of himself and his family. Direct words coming out of his and his family's mouths that cannot be explained away along with George's incriminating statements refered to in the Bond Hearing.

Other Acts Evidence

03/08/2021 (MOTION #54.1)
DEFENDANT'S SUPPLELMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF "OTHER ACTS" EVIDENCE.

Then the Other Acts Evidence is presented and gives a searing and compelling motivation for the crimes but more than that they reveal the devastating testimony that 2 witnesses who lived with them can present before the jury,

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org

• 2018CR000154 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, EDWARD JACOB
• Docket Information
• 08/31/2020 WAGNER, IV, GEORGE HEARING FOR BOND MODIFICATION