GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

[Covert Operative]

Sleuthers
If the state of Ohio doesn’t have a lot more evidence on the Wagners on this crime and other crimes that hasn’t came out yet than Why the guards that accompany them back and forth to jail started carrying machine gun and bulletproof vests????

I believe they have a lot of evidence on them, two have confessed already. I believe it is JW proffer that is the reason G4 defense is pushing his case so hard, hoping to get lesser charges or lesser sentence.

 

[Berrybell]

<<<<This is Raize's husband. I want to make sure not to deceive anyone about who is posting.
Raize is recovering but still confined to bed as her legs and arms are very weak from no oxygen and being bedridden for almost 5 months now. She is in intensive physical therapy but as of yet not able to type on the computer. The surgery was a sucess as far as getting more oxygen to her extremities. There is still some work to go. As I am sure you all are aware Raize has quite the temper and when I had to confiscate (so to speak) her laptop to keep her from tiring herself out she has frequently made her displeasure known. I had to promise to read the posts to her. I never understood Raize's fascination with this forum but am beginning to understand: friends. One can never have too many friends.
Over the years in my career I have investigated more than a few homicides on a federal level but have very little experience in the trial side other than being called to testify to evidence that was gathered in the course of the investigation and COC of said evidence. That being said, being retired now and virtually home bound by Raize's health and at loose ends, after reading recent posts to Raize I have become somewhat interested in this case myself. The irony of that should not be lost on anyone as over the years I have asked Raize's opinion on some unclassified information and gotten a very short answer of "not interested". Let me make it clear that being the good husband I am I gave very patient and detailed answers to any questions she asked about this case. (She might not agree with this.)
I would like to venture an opinion on the current subject of shoe print evidence.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this as Raize said I should ask a moderator if I can 1. post on her account and 2. if not, can a husband and wife have separate accounts under different screen names on here.
Sorry I messed up on the tab button.
I will venture the opinion on shoe print evidence as Raize tells me if it is not allowed the moderators will delete the post.
I believe the shoe print evidence will be admissible, but it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution and somewhat of a gift for the defense. The DNA evidence on both the inside and outside of the shoe will be admitted. While outside blood DNA will be irrefutable the inside DNA, I am assuming George Wagner IV's DNA from wearing the shoes, is another matter. To expound on that, his mother claims she bought the shoes for him, he denies he wore them as he did not like them. Inside DNA re: dead skin cells ect, could be argued by the defense to have gotten there by Mr. G Wagner IV having tried them on then discarding them as not to his liking. It could also answer to intent that has been a subject on here also. Given what I assume the relationship between the younger Mr. Wagner and his mother, his mother may have told young Mr. Wagner to take the shoes to make sure they were on the scene to coerce or blackmail the older brother in participating which would leave in doubt his intent to harm any of the victims.
Raize said to write jmo after my opinion so others know it is not fact but opinion.
I am going to begin at the start when the crime was committed in 2016 and try to read forward as I have time.
Thank you all for your time, Raize's husband.

So happy Raize is recovering she is greatly missed.

 

[Nanasteele]

I wonder if they think G4 will brake them out as he stated before? (Too funny) Wasn't that over heard when he threatened Junk? That may be why JW is saying he didn't kill anyone. Who knows what they are thinking!

 

[Dudly]

I wonder if they think G4 will brake them out as he stated before? (Too funny) Wasn't that over heard when he threatened Junk? That may be why JW is saying he didn't kill anyone. Who knows what they are thinking!

To get everyone out, they would have to do four jail breaks. Then, where would they go?

 

[LMDlong]

<<<<This is Raize's husband. I want to make sure not to deceive anyone about who is posting.
Raize is recovering but still confined to bed as her legs and arms are very weak from no oxygen and being bedridden for almost 5 months now. She is in intensive physical therapy but as of yet not able to type on the computer. The surgery was a sucess as far as getting more oxygen to her extremities. There is still some work to go. As I am sure you all are aware Raize has quite the temper and when I had to confiscate (so to speak) her laptop to keep her from tiring herself out she has frequently made her displeasure known. I had to promise to read the posts to her. I never understood Raize's fascination with this forum but am beginning to understand: friends. One can never have too many friends.
Over the years in my career I have investigated more than a few homicides on a federal level but have very little experience in the trial side other than being called to testify to evidence that was gathered in the course of the investigation and COC of said evidence. That being said, being retired now and virtually home bound by Raize's health and at loose ends, after reading recent posts to Raize I have become somewhat interested in this case myself. The irony of that should not be lost on anyone as over the years I have asked Raize's opinion on some unclassified information and gotten a very short answer of "not interested". Let me make it clear that being the good husband I am I gave very patient and detailed answers to any questions she asked about this case. (She might not agree with this.)
I would like to venture an opinion on the current subject of shoe print evidence.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this as Raize said I should ask a moderator if I can 1. post on her account and 2. if not, can a husband and wife have separate accounts under different screen names on here.
Sorry I messed up on the tab button.
I will venture the opinion on shoe print evidence as Raize tells me if it is not allowed the moderators will delete the post.
I believe the shoe print evidence will be admissible, but it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution and somewhat of a gift for the defense. The DNA evidence on both the inside and outside of the shoe will be admitted. While outside blood DNA will be irrefutable the inside DNA, I am assuming George Wagner IV's DNA from wearing the shoes, is another matter. To expound on that, his mother claims she bought the shoes for him, he denies he wore them as he did not like them. Inside DNA re: dead skin cells ect, could be argued by the defense to have gotten there by Mr. G Wagner IV having tried them on then discarding them as not to his liking. It could also answer to intent that has been a subject on here also. Given what I assume the relationship between the younger Mr. Wagner and his mother, his mother may have told young Mr. Wagner to take the shoes to make sure they were on the scene to coerce or blackmail the older brother in participating which would leave in doubt his intent to harm any of the victims.
Raize said to write jmo after my opinion so others know it is not fact but opinion.
I am going to begin at the start when the crime was committed in 2016 and try to read forward as I have time.
Thank you all for your time, Raize's husband.

Thank you for the update. Keeping her in my prayer’s.

 

[Cool Cats]

<<<<This is Raize's husband. I want to make sure not to deceive anyone about who is posting.
Raize is recovering but still confined to bed as her legs and arms are very weak from no oxygen and being bedridden for almost 5 months now. She is in intensive physical therapy but as of yet not able to type on the computer. The surgery was a sucess as far as getting more oxygen to her extremities. There is still some work to go. As I am sure you all are aware Raize has quite the temper and when I had to confiscate (so to speak) her laptop to keep her from tiring herself out she has frequently made her displeasure known. I had to promise to read the posts to her. I never understood Raize's fascination with this forum but am beginning to understand: friends. One can never have too many friends.
Over the years in my career I have investigated more than a few homicides on a federal level but have very little experience in the trial side other than being called to testify to evidence that was gathered in the course of the investigation and COC of said evidence. That being said, being retired now and virtually home bound by Raize's health and at loose ends, after reading recent posts to Raize I have become somewhat interested in this case myself. The irony of that should not be lost on anyone as over the years I have asked Raize's opinion on some unclassified information and gotten a very short answer of "not interested". Let me make it clear that being the good husband I am I gave very patient and detailed answers to any questions she asked about this case. (She might not agree with this.)
I would like to venture an opinion on the current subject of shoe print evidence.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this as Raize said I should ask a moderator if I can 1. post on her account and 2. if not, can a husband and wife have separate accounts under different screen names on here.
Sorry I messed up on the tab button.
I will venture the opinion on shoe print evidence as Raize tells me if it is not allowed the moderators will delete the post.
I believe the shoe print evidence will be admissible, but it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution and somewhat of a gift for the defense. The DNA evidence on both the inside and outside of the shoe will be admitted. While outside blood DNA will be irrefutable the inside DNA, I am assuming George Wagner IV's DNA from wearing the shoes, is another matter. To expound on that, his mother claims she bought the shoes for him, he denies he wore them as he did not like them. Inside DNA re: dead skin cells ect, could be argued by the defense to have gotten there by Mr. G Wagner IV having tried them on then discarding them as not to his liking. It could also answer to intent that has been a subject on here also. Given what I assume the relationship between the younger Mr. Wagner and his mother, his mother may have told young Mr. Wagner to take the shoes to make sure they were on the scene to coerce or blackmail the older brother in participating which would leave in doubt his intent to harm any of the victims.
Raize said to write jmo after my opinion so others know it is not fact but opinion.
I am going to begin at the start when the crime was committed in 2016 and try to read forward as I have time.
Thank you all for your time, Raize's husband.

Thanks for update on Raize. Give her our best wishes for her health. Looking forward to her posting again. We very much care about her!!!!
Sending warmest wishes and prayers her way....

She would be glad to know that George has both a trial date set and also dates set for jury selection:

Mar. 7th @ 1pm - Motions hearing
April 4th @ 9am - Daubert hearing on shoe print (nothing mentioned on ballistics)
May 2 @ 1pm -Motions hearing
May 16 @ 1pm - Motion to suppress
July 5 to 14 - @ 9am - Jury questionnaire & seating
Aug 8 thru 12 @ 9am - Individual voir dire
Aug 15 thru 19 @ 9am - Individual voir dire
Aug 29 @ 9am - trial starts with general voir dire & opening statements.

I want to give you the information on the shoe prints. No shoes were recovered, just the prints.

I believe the shoe prints will be a big factor in placing George smack dab in the middle of the murders and thus be a big factor in convicting him of murder.

Scheiderer George's Bond Hearing Shoe Prints
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

Bloody shoe impressions on floor at Chris SR's = Starts at 1:12:40 = Photo

Angela in Walmart = Starts at 1:22:40 = Photo

1.) North of Chris Sr's entryway is left print of 11W athletic works shoe.

2.) On Chris Sr's living room floor another left print was found of the 11W athletic works shoe.

3.) Also North of Chris Sr's porch entryway or on living room floor or both,
a left print was found of a size 10.5 athletic works shoe.

4.) At Dana's a left print of a 11W athletic works shoe was found and only this size print was found at Dana's.

5.) Receipt from Waverly Walmart found on Angela Wagner's property shows the purchase of these 2 sizes of athletic works shoes that match the shoe footprints found at 4077 (Chris Sr's) and 3122 UHR (Dana's).

6.) A still photo of Angie shows her leaving Walmart at time the athletic works shoes were purchased right before murders.

7.) To determine if these specifically bought athletic works shoes were worn by any of the suspects, shoes from the same mold were purchased in Florida to compare to the 4077 and 3122 UHR crime scenes. The shoe expert is able to conclude that there are 2 distinct sizes that were worn - - Size 11W and size 10.5W.

8.) Outsole design, mold, dimension, texture pattern, and other forensic comparisons were made matching the shoes Angie bought to the shoe prints at the crime scenes.

9.) Angela Canepa said that Angela Wagner bought these shoes for Jake and George and they are deliberately of the size and style they do not wear.

10.) Angie admitted to buying the shoes for Jake and George and said she threw them out because Jake and George didn't like the shoes.

11.) Jake and George denied that they had seen the shoes. Jake's proffer could now tell a different story as to what he has to say about the shoes.

12.) Special note: The shoe prints at the crime scenes show no wear on the tread. The tread looks new. Angie bought the shoes just 2-3 weeks before the murders.

Screenshot of Angie in Walmart on day she purchased the shoes and screenshot of bloody shoe impressions at Chris Senior's.

 

[Puzzles8]

<<<<This is Raize's husband. I want to make sure not to deceive anyone about who is posting.
Raize is recovering but still confined to bed as her legs and arms are very weak from no oxygen and being bedridden for almost 5 months now. She is in intensive physical therapy but as of yet not able to type on the computer. The surgery was a sucess as far as getting more oxygen to her extremities. There is still some work to go. As I am sure you all are aware Raize has quite the temper and when I had to confiscate (so to speak) her laptop to keep her from tiring herself out she has frequently made her displeasure known. I had to promise to read the posts to her. I never understood Raize's fascination with this forum but am beginning to understand: friends. One can never have too many friends.
Over the years in my career I have investigated more than a few homicides on a federal level but have very little experience in the trial side other than being called to testify to evidence that was gathered in the course of the investigation and COC of said evidence. That being said, being retired now and virtually home bound by Raize's health and at loose ends, after reading recent posts to Raize I have become somewhat interested in this case myself. The irony of that should not be lost on anyone as over the years I have asked Raize's opinion on some unclassified information and gotten a very short answer of "not interested". Let me make it clear that being the good husband I am I gave very patient and detailed answers to any questions she asked about this case. (She might not agree with this.)
I would like to venture an opinion on the current subject of shoe print evidence.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this as Raize said I should ask a moderator if I can 1. post on her account and 2. if not, can a husband and wife have separate accounts under different screen names on here.
Sorry I messed up on the tab button.
I will venture the opinion on shoe print evidence as Raize tells me if it is not allowed the moderators will delete the post.
I believe the shoe print evidence will be admissible, but it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution and somewhat of a gift for the defense. The DNA evidence on both the inside and outside of the shoe will be admitted. While outside blood DNA will be irrefutable the inside DNA, I am assuming George Wagner IV's DNA from wearing the shoes, is another matter. To expound on that, his mother claims she bought the shoes for him, he denies he wore them as he did not like them. Inside DNA re: dead skin cells ect, could be argued by the defense to have gotten there by Mr. G Wagner IV having tried them on then discarding them as not to his liking. It could also answer to intent that has been a subject on here also. Given what I assume the relationship between the younger Mr. Wagner and his mother, his mother may have told young Mr. Wagner to take the shoes to make sure they were on the scene to coerce or blackmail the older brother in participating which would leave in doubt his intent to harm any of the victims.
Raize said to write jmo after my opinion so others know it is not fact but opinion.
I am going to begin at the start when the crime was committed in 2016 and try to read forward as I have time.
Thank you all for your time, Raize's husband.

Welcome MR.RAISINISBACK

We look forward to you joining the discussion!

Thank you for taking such good care of Raize, we miss her and look forward to the day she has enough strength to start posting again. Please tell her she is still in my prayers.

 

[Puzzles8]

To get everyone out, they would have to do four jail breaks. Then, where would they go?

It's not as if Billy could hide in a crowd.

 

[Puzzles8]

Covert Operative I am not sure I have yet figured out the reply tab. Thank you for that piece of information as I had assumed the actual shoes were in evidence and the debate was on who was wearing them that night. As I said I do not have many facts on this case and have not read any actual reports from agencies involved. I will, in the future, try to ascertain facts before venturing an opinion. I intend to start from day one to read as much information and facts as time will allow. Is there a website where reporting agencies on state and local levels (so sorry) submitted any reports made by investigating officers? Being retired I have limited access to federal data at this time.
Thank you for taking the time to reply and pointing out the actual shoes have not yet been recovered.

The 'reply' button is in the lower right hand corner in each post. I'll be honest, I haven't figured out all the buttons either...

 

[Cool Cats]

So can anyone tell me - as relating to George - the significance of the size 10.5 print left at Chris Seniors?

This size was not left at Dana's.

At Dana's was the size 11.

So who left the size 10.5 at Chris's?

Hummm....

George, of whom Angela admitted buying the shoes for?

Or will George's defense try to pin that size print onto Billy?

This shoe print evidence is crucial I think, which is why I bring it up. Can sink or swim.

 

[Nanasteele]

To get everyone out, they would have to do four jail breaks. Then, where would they go?

LOL exactly!

 

[Ann99]

LOL exactly!

Im thinking they would go directly to FWF and collect > $200.

 

[Covert Operative]

BCI agent said in bond hearing that the shoes that made the prints were not recovered. There was a print or partial print at DR, enough of one that they could tell the shoe size was an 11. How would there be a print in blood at DR if they were all in bed when killed. I can think of a few way's but I am not sure that they make sense.
In bond hearing the BCI says they appeared to be killed in their sleep and were in 3 different bedrooms.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for update on Raize. Give her our best wishes for her health. Looking forward to her posting again. We very much care about her!!!!
Sending warmest wishes and prayers her way....

She would be glad to know that George has both a trial date set and also dates set for jury selection:

Mar. 7th @ 1pm - Motions hearing
April 4th @ 9am - Daubert hearing on shoe print (nothing mentioned on ballistics)
May 2 @ 1pm -Motions hearing
May 16 @ 1pm - Motion to suppress
July 5 to 14 - @ 9am - Jury questionnaire & seating
Aug 8 thru 12 @ 9am - Individual voir dire
Aug 15 thru 19 @ 9am - Individual voir dire
Aug 29 @ 9am - trial starts with general voir dire & opening statements.

I want to give you the information on the shoe prints. No shoes were recovered, just the prints.

I believe the shoe prints will be a big factor in placing George smack dab in the middle of the murders and thus be a big factor in convicting him of murder.

Scheiderer George's Bond Hearing Shoe Prints
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

Bloody shoe impressions on floor at Chris SR's = Starts at 1:12:40 = Photo

Angela in Walmart = Starts at 1:22:40 = Photo

1.) North of Chris Sr's entryway is left print of 11W athletic works shoe.

2.) On Chris Sr's living room floor another left print was found of the 11W athletic works shoe.

3.) Also North of Chris Sr's porch entryway or on living room floor or both,
a left print was found of a size 10.5 athletic works shoe.

4.) At Dana's a left print of a 11W athletic works shoe was found and only this size print was found at Dana's.

5.) Receipt from Waverly Walmart found on Angela Wagner's property shows the purchase of these 2 sizes of athletic works shoes that match the shoe footprints found at 4077 (Chris Sr's) and 3122 UHR (Dana's).

6.) A still photo of Angie shows her leaving Walmart at time the athletic works shoes were purchased right before murders.

7.) To determine if these specifically bought athletic works shoes were worn by any of the suspects, shoes from the same mold were purchased in Florida to compare to the 4077 and 3122 UHR crime scenes. The shoe expert is able to conclude that there are 2 distinct sizes that were worn - - Size 11W and size 10.5W.

8.) Outsole design, mold, dimension, texture pattern, and other forensic comparisons were made matching the shoes Angie bought to the shoe prints at the crime scenes.

9.) Angela Canepa said that Angela Wagner bought these shoes for Jake and George and they are deliberately of the size and style they do not wear.

10.) Angie admitted to buying the shoes for Jake and George and said she threw them out because Jake and George didn't like the shoes.

11.) Jake and George denied that they had seen the shoes. Jake's proffer could now tell a different story as to what he has to say about the shoes.

12.) Special note: The shoe prints at the crime scenes show no wear on the tread. The tread looks new. Angie bought the shoes just 2-3 weeks before the murders.

Screenshot of Angie in Walmart on day she purchased the shoes and screenshot of bloody shoe impressions at Chris Senior's.

This is a good summary. Because this will be discussed at the upcoming Daubert hearing, I'm going to post this link in the Media & Timelines thread for easier reference. It would probably also be helpful to post copies of the discovery documents. It will be a real time saver to have those links and files over there to refer to instead of hunting through multiple threads.

 

[Betty P]

BCI agent said in bond hearing that the shoes that made the prints were not recovered. There was a print or partial print at DR, enough of one that they could tell the shoe size was an 11. How would there be a print in blood at DR if they were all in bed when killed. I can think of a few way's but I am not sure that they make sense.
In bond hearing the BCI says they appeared to be killed in their sleep and were in 3 different bedrooms.

Without going into gruesome details, yes it seems possible that blood would be on the floor. Even though the victims were in bed, the fluids and tissue would still be projected away from the victim with some velocity. IOW, there was probably blood all over those bedrooms, on walls, doors, floor, etc.

The physics of blood spatter – Physics World

The same would apply for victims bleeding from multiple gunshot wounds to the head, from close range. That was the COD for all the victims. That's a lot of blood coming out very quickly.

The killers would also be covered in blood. There would also be a lot of it in their vehicle(s).

JMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

This thread has reached capacity and is now closed.

Please continue on Thread #68