OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[Betty P]

Yes, that is where I heard it said that Bobbi went to LM's house and got her brother.... but, in reviewing what LM says, he could be talking about someone who was with Bobbi Jo who went up to LM's house and got him and JM to come down to the murder scene(s) and not necessarily Bobbi. I do have a little trouble with his accent. Thank-you. The subject of the timing did come up though, and I remember there being questions at the time about her actions not matching the time element of what she said she did and when. I never suspected Bobbi and have never had a bad thought about her. She is part of it though... she found the first bodies and she'll be a prosecution witness in four trials. Why shouldn't the possible reasons for LE's suspicions of Bobbi be discussed? Those reasons turned out to be faulty and her name has been cleared. I'm not sure what you mean about people "leaving her alone." I haven't seen anyone "picking on" Bobbi here. I clearly said in my comments that LE was wrong about Bobbi.

I get what you're saying, but Bobbi isn't a suspect. DeWine said there will be no more arrests. All the suspects they believe committed the murders have been arrested. If DeWine and Reader thought Bobbi was a suspect in any way, she would have been charged. She wasn't. She was probably investigated, questioned, etc. more than any other person and LE came up with nothing. The only "accessories" were the grandmothers.

 

[Betty P]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Agree, DS's statement isn't rumor. It's information he relayed to the news media that DeWine refused to confirm. I have a feeling we'll soon learn that DS was probably accurate. He was probably close to KR's body and saw it clearly. For reasons unknown, LE wasn't ready to confirm it back then.

 

[Puzzles8]

I'd like to know everyone's theories on how they moved between the 4 crime scenes.
4 wheelers, cars/trucks, back of a horse trailer, or by horse????
I'd also like theories on how they disposed of or cleaned their transport, murder weapons (oh, and silencers), video cameras, hard drives and anything that had either R/G's DNA or the Wag's DNA on it.
It looked like KR's trailer was fairly close to the Flying W farm (correct??). There would certainly be lots of areas with soap & hoses etc. to clean the farm's horses and muddy equipment. I thought I read where JW was a trained welder. That would certainly be a handy way to thoroughly destroy evidence. A farm might have welding equipment right there.
I'm thinking they might have been wearing HazMat suits.
Also, can someone help me understand trucks and license plate issues with JM. Did he buy a used truck from CRSR (when)? Did he have temporary plates on it? Wasn't there a problem with his tag registration right after the murders?
TIA, JMO
O/T - I was looking at real estate pictures of the bloody red house. There were certainly a lot of dead animals in there. The one though, that put me over the top, was the deer head they appeared to have mounted in their bathroom.....it was right across from the toilet....as if it were staring. Practically though, they might have used it as a towel rack....

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've looked... can't find what I read. I remember a lot of discussion on this time discrepancy though on really old theads. Probably, since Bobbi Jo had a working phone, she called James... after all, he ended up going to Dana's house to investigate the well being of people in the house. I think Bobby had to correct her time frame by saying she had notified her brother before she called 911... and that looked suspicious at the time. Anyone is free to correct this... my memory is only so good. But, suspicion was cast onto Bobbi very shortly due to the times not matching up with her story of discovery, calling 911 and her brother, James arriving at Dana's home already suspecting he might find something terrible just like down the road where Bobbi was waiting for LE. I think it was found out that she had also gone to Frankie's house before calling 911. When the natural assumption of LE was, from what she said on her 911 call, that she had only been to Chris's place at that point. She had "extra" time that had to be accounted for iow... and it was accounted for but only after further questioning by LE who, by that time, might have continued to suspect her anyway.

I think the M's knew from day one who killed them and why. I think that why BJM called LM which she said she did, he and all the family knew what they would find at DR's.

I remember all of us theorizing as to why AM would say that JM "didn't want to see his niece like that". We wondered why he wouldn't have said he didn't want to see his sister like that. Now we know. He knew JW killed them and knew for certain that target one was HR.

My theory on why the W's killed them all is that JW was determined to kill HR. He knew if he killed her and got away with it that CR1, FR and KR would know he did it and come after him. Even if he never spent a day in jail he knew the R's and the type of people they were and he knew they would come after him. So there you have your primary targets at each home. CR1 at his home, FR at his home, KR at his home and HR at DR's. HHG and DR were just an added bonus while GR and CR2 were just there.

JMO

 

[grillzgirl]

I think the M's knew from day one who killed them and why. I think that why BJM called LM which she said she did, he and all the family knew what they would find at DR's.

I remember all of us theorizing as to why AM would say that JM "didn't want to see his niece like that". We wondered why he wouldn't have said he didn't want to see his sister like that. Now we know. He knew JW killed them and knew for certain that target one was HR.

My theory on why the W's killed them all is that JW was determined to kill HR. He knew if he killed her and got away with it that CR1, FR and KR would know he did it and come after him. Even if he never spent a day in jail he knew the R's and the type of people they were and he knew they would come after him. So there you have your primary targets at each home. CR1 at his home, FR at his home, KR at his home and HR at DR's. HHG and DR were just an added bonus while GR and CR2 were just there.

JMO

Hello - I like this theory

Couple of questions - do you think AM and JM knew about the murders beforehand? Or you believe they thought it could be the W’s after the fact?

Also, what is your theory on why JW wanted HR dead?

 

[Jonas_Klein]

[QUO


BBM

Hi Jonas Klein. Sorry, but I can't resist asking (per you post above) but did I understand you have a brother named "Calvin"?

(as in The Calvin Klein... And if so, may I send you a PM with a few items on my Christmas list?)
​

My attempt at some levity.

My brother may be Calvin but our dad is neither Claus or a saint.

Here is a proof people are reading. Good catch.

 

[Jennifer17]

Hello - I like this theory

Couple of questions - do you think AM and JM knew about the murders beforehand? Or you believe they thought it could be the W’s after the fact?

Also, what is your theory on why JW wanted HR dead?

No, I don't think that anyone except the Ws knew about the murders beforehand. They knew that JW had asked HR to sign away her parental rights.
JW wanted HR dead because he wanted custody of SW and because HR had left him and had another man's child.
He had several motives.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

In retrospect it seems LE was trying to figure out what was going on, if JM was meeting with JW. Apparently, they didn't know. A judge would allow a tracking device under those circumstances. As it turns out, there was no there there.

Betty I think it is absolutely reasonable of LE to turn attention to JM when they discovered the text from him to JW. If LE was focused on JW and the 4W's as suspects then I would expect them to investigate a text from the brother of one of the victims to any one of the 4W's. LE said from day one that whoever killed the R's knew them personally and was very close to them. So it is very reasonable that LE might think a close family member helped the 4W's with information and/or surveillance. Or may even have supplied or disposed of a vehicle.

I am sure that the text between JW and JM is not the only text message to or from the 4W's they investigated. What made it unusual is that it was from a close family member of the R's.
JMO

 

[IceIce9]

RSD, i searched for a definition of "Defiance". It means confrontation, unsubordination.

To me, "Defiance farm" resonates in the culture of the freemen movement or something like that. People solve their problems on their own, they stand their ground, authority of the state is a threat to freedom and so on.

I don't want to take the discussion where it should not, but I think it is in the culture of the family. The move to Alaska is not unrelated to it.

FWIW, there is a city in Ohio named Defiance. The Ohio high school I attended played Defiance High School in football, both school had the same team name, “Bulldogs” so I remember it well.

School jackets had the name, “DEFIANCE” emblazoned on the back. Anyone traveling through the area and not familiar with the school name might wonder what so many young people were defiant about.

There is also a Defiance County in Ohio.

Ohio History was a required course in high school, and we studied Fort Defiance as it was an important piece in the settlement of Ohio. Battle of Fallen Timbers, etc.

As a result there were many businesses, some parks, etc. that contained “Defiance” in the name. Defiance Diner, Defiance Foundry, Defiance Boys and Girls Club, Defiance Church of Christ, etc.

Not saying anything in this case that is the meaning behind Defiance Farm, but it is not uncommon to see Defiance in Ohio.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't understand why the W's were resentful of CR1's purchase of the trailer for DR. Could someone fill in this blank for me?

I don't think they were resentful of them for getting something "new". Possibly was seen by the Rs as a way to thwart any cps calls, or nosy LEOs dropping by, who might could be sent by the Ws. The entire family living in one very old trailer, with a "sophisticated" grow op on the property (all of the property belonged to CR1 and bros), could make for a case with getting their foot into the .

Where was it said BJ went home and got her brother. I don't recall ever seeing that anywhere.

I remember that her timeline was off, and LM even said that BJM came and got him (loosely quoting), however, that can be a way of phrasing in our region. It may not necessarily mean she left CR1's property, although it could. I know, it sounds weird, but it may just have been his way of phrasing. She could have sent one of her friends to go get LM. We never heard how he got there really. I think her times were off, because of the grow op. She was terrified, and in shock, but also thought she'd be going to jail if she acted like she knew about the grows, and was likely assisting with them. So she covered for herself yet tried to tell the truth. It didn't add up.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

FWIW, there is a city in Ohio named Defiance. The Ohio high school I attended played Defiance High School in football, both school had the same team name, “Bulldogs” so I remember it well.

School jackets had the name, “DEFIANCE” emblazoned on the back. Anyone traveling through the area and not familiar with the school name might wonder what so many young people were defiant about.

There is also a Defiance County in Ohio.

Ohio History was a required course in high school, and we studied Fort Defiance as it was an important piece in the settlement of Ohio. Battle of Fallen Timbers, etc.

As a result there were many businesses, some parks, etc. that contained “Defiance” in the name. Defiance Diner, Defiance Foundry, Defiance Boys and Girls Club, Defiance Church of Christ, etc.

Not saying anything in this case that is the meaning behind Defiance Farm, but it is not uncommon to see Defiance in Ohio.

Thanks! Good info.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

You are right but passing the qualification test does not necessarily make someone a marksman. I was asking how it was known that she WAS a Marksman.

I don't know how long AW stayed in the USAF. She was about 20 when she had GW4.

Does someone know more precisely what was AW's age when she gave birth?

 

[rsd1200]

Betty I think it is absolutely reasonable of LE to turn attention to JM when they discovered the text from him to JW. If LE was focused on JW and the 4W's as suspects then I would expect them to investigate a text from the brother of one of the victims to any one of the 4W's. LE said from day one that whoever killed the R's knew them personally and was very close to them. So it is very reasonable that LE might think a close family member helped the 4W's with information and/or surveillance. Or may even have supplied or disposed of a vehicle.

I am sure that the text between JW and JM is not the only text message to or from the 4W's they investigated. What made it unusual is that it was from a close family member of the R's.
JMO

A friend's aunt and uncle, killed the uncle's brother and nearly the sil, over a death in the family. The family will never be whole. It happens. They'd have been remiss to exclude family. Nearly 25% of all murder victims are murdered by family, according to 2011 data. Probably higher now. Seems the world just keeps getting meaner. On the news here, a fella slit his little nieces throat, she was three, she didn't survive. They also found a dead baby in a walmart bag tonight. Yes, blood murders blood, every day, it seems.

Expanded Homicide Data

 

[kaaky]

It did not happen to the KR that was murdered. This happened AFTER the murders in a different state.

 

[kaaky]

I think that Jake took the shooters with him at 10:00 pm when he picked his daughter up, that was when Big Chris was killed, the shooters stayed in that home, that's why Big Chris was covered up with a blanket, the killers stayed there and killed Gary next when he came in the home they held him down and put the gun to his head, after that the killers went to Frankie home after his ex girlfriend left, given them time to fall a sleep, I think that someone was watching Dana and called the shooters and alerted them as to when she had left work, that's is when the shooters knew of what time to kill Dana,Chris jr & Hanna May, the person that was watching Dana was the one that killed Kenny, afterward they waited on a call from the shooters at Dana house to come and pick them up, Jake stayed and took care of his daughter.

Very good theory. Best one I have read in 2.5 years. This would make a lot of sense.

 

[kaaky]

Betty I think it is absolutely reasonable of LE to turn attention to JM when they discovered the text from him to JW. If LE was focused on JW and the 4W's as suspects then I would expect them to investigate a text from the brother of one of the victims to any one of the 4W's. LE said from day one that whoever killed the R's knew them personally and was very close to them. So it is very reasonable that LE might think a close family member helped the 4W's with information and/or surveillance. Or may even have supplied or disposed of a vehicle.

I am sure that the text between JW and JM is not the only text message to or from the 4W's they investigated. What made it unusual is that it was from a close family member of the R's.
JMO

If I am correct, usually the first suspects the LE look at in a murder is usually the immediate family.
With BJM finding them, going to get her daddy before calling 911 (I'm sure from the shock) and JM going to Dana's. They was all the first ones on the scene. I am sure after questioning them (which would be normal) they told them about what had been going on with JW and HR and that got them going in a different direction, but they may made it seem they was still looking at the Manley's just to throw the Ws are so they could try and catch them in some act?

 

[Jennifer17]

If I am correct, usually the first suspects the LE look at in a murder is usually the immediate family.
With BJM finding them, going to get her daddy before calling 911 (I'm sure from the shock) and JM going to Dana's. They was all the first ones on the scene. I am sure after questioning them (which would be normal) they told them about what had been going on with JW and HR and that got them going in a different direction, but they may made it seem they was still looking at the Manley's just to throw the Ws are so they could try and catch them in some act?

I think that BJM is JM's sister, isn't she?

 

[Trudie]

I don't know how long AW stayed in the USAF. She was about 20 when she had GW4.

Does someone know more precisely what was AW's age when she gave birth?

Reportedly, AW is 48, JW is 26.
I, too, have read reports AW had advanced weaponry training. However, idk the validity of the reports.

 

[Trudie]

NUMEROUS PRESS CONFERENCES, but IMO, this is the gamechanger that said, "GOTTCHA!" Thanks to BETTYP for directing me/us to the MEDIA&TIMELINE THREAD! This conference was April 13, 2017, (you are on notice, and we know who you are?) Sheriff Reader emphatically protects the Rhoden family when reporter implies drug connection:
"I'm stating they are human beings and we are all judged. You're judged by people. I'm judged by people. I'm criticized. And, that is fine and this family has as well with the type of crime that's been committed. And, I am saying that these are human beings. And regardless of what they did for a living, regardless if they lived in rural Pike County, I am saying they are humans."
Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

Also stated in the conference, "We know the killers are watching and listening." {sic} "Wherever they are......" (Yep, he knows they are in Alaska?...and he and Dewine have devised a plan to get them back. It obviously worked....and sitting in the front row is AngieC, the special prosecutor. (What a cohinkydink, huh?)

Shortly after, is the first news story about W's property, the W farm being searched, the W4's coming back to town, and the GJ convened.
Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered
Ps, Thank you VERN for teaching me how to attach permalinks!

Exactly! But, I still believe the W clan was under the Radar on day 2. It was just too risky to arrest w/o the proverbial ducks in a row. Best to wait, build a more solid case & get ALL of them. It would have been a shame for one to have been arrested, stood trial & found “not guilty, to never be tried again.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Jmo number 1 incorrect.

Ok. I heard the 911 call it was a short time prior to murders. I’ll see if I can find it

I don’t understand the boots. Does the Walmart in Waverly or West Union have a huge selection of boots where the chance of two different people buying the same brand of boots are low? Did BW squeeze his big feet into smaller boots? Jmo

Myland. Do you know the Waggies?