OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#41

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by tlcya, Jul 29, 2017.

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  1. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    George Wagner is accused of killing a family of 8 living on a pot farm in Pike County OH. While first thought to be drug related the killings now could be the result of a custody battle. 3 other members of the Wagner family have been arrested as well. So many twists and turns and Websleuths members are on top of every single thing that happens in the shocking case.

    The gruesome slayings have rattled this southeast corner of Appalachian Ohio, a region that culturally identifies more closely with neighboring Kentucky and West Virginia than the state’s northern cities.

    [...]

    Adding to the shock was the discovery of hundreds of illegal marijuana plants on Rhoden’s property, highlighting the region’s dependency on the illegal drug trade as jobs in agriculture and timber have dried up.

    Audio 911 Calls

    PRESSER: APRIL 27, 2016

    Video Interview with Attorney General DeWine Published 8-13-16


    Minors: You may discuss what is covered in the main stream media regarding the custody of minor children. If posting snips from articles regarding the children please redact their names. These babes are innocents. One day they will google their names or those of their parents. And plenty will come up. Let's be respectful of them and the catastrophic loss they have suffered at such tender ages. Thanks.

    DO NOT SLEUTH STILL LIVING FAMILY MEMBERS' FACEBOOK PAGES AND POST ABOUT IT HERE. Just don't mention it. Period.

    Leave the politics, both national and local, at the door. There is no room for them here.

    Rules Etiquette & Information

    CASE NOTES (courtesy of cujenn81) this link contains locations, distance, victim info, relationships and more.

    MEDIA LINKS NO DISCUSSION
    CASE MAP (courtesy of K.L.Puyallup)
    Preliminary Autopsy Reports
    Final Autopsy Reports source article

    Thread #33
    Thread #34
    Thread #35



    Thread #39
    Thread #40
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2019
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  2. plumloco

    plumloco Active Member

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  3. Trudie

    Trudie Well-Known Member

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  4. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Please continue...
     
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  5. Trudie

    Trudie Well-Known Member

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    Morning~

    Eventuslly, IMO, someone is gonna need to amp up the pace. 10-15 minute hearings are not conducive to resolving cases of this magnitude, imo.
    Iirc, it has been suggested trials might be years away.
    At this pace, maybe decades? Idk
    Sure, there’s a lot to wade thru & much activity behind closed doors but IMO, it took G4 longer to tie his tie than his pretrial lasted.
     
  6. Sleuthinsleuther

    Sleuthinsleuther Active Member

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    What time is the Pretrial for both RN and FW today?
     
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  7. Jacqueline

    Jacqueline Angel

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    Fredericka Carol Wagner, 76, will appear in court at 10 a.m. for a pre-trial hearing. Rita Jo Newcomb, 65, is scheduled for a hearing at 2:30 p.m.

    Grandmothers accused in Pike Co. cover up in court today
     
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  8. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    Updated Timeline - Rhoden Family Murders - updating 1/9/2019



    November 2001

    George Wagner III indicted on 3 felony counts for receiving stolen property

    Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies


    2009

    George Wagner III and Angela Wagner charged with felony tampering with evidence. Charges dismissed by Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk, who doesn’t recall the reason why.

    Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies


    2012 - AG DeWine issued press release announcing LE had discovered “a major marijuana grow site”in Pike County with suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During the discovery, 1200 plants were destroyed by investigators and two abandoned campsites were located, which they believe had belonged to Mexican nationals.

    From <Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered>


    2013



    November 2013

    Birth of daughter Sophia to Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden. They lived together much of the time until 2015, at Hanna’s home or the Wagner’s

    Pike County investigation: 8 deaths and multiple arrests were tied to one key factor — child custody


    2014


    Jake Wagner began hacking, etc. victims’ phones, computers and social media accounts according to indictment



    2015


    March 2015

    Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden end their relationship

    Exhaustive investigation leads to break in Pike County murder case


    May 2015

    Frankie and Chris Rhoden, Jr get in a fight with another driver at a local demolition derby.

    Violent Rhoden Brothers Met a Violent End in Ohio Massacre


    August 2015

    Hanna Rhoden becomes pregnant with her second child, Kylie

    2016


    January 2016

    Wagner 4 begin plotting to murder the Rhoden family, per indictments


    February 2016

    Box of marijuana discovered at Piketon Post Office, investigation leads to discovery of "shatter" operation


    April 3, 2016

    Fredericka Wagner and Rita Newcomb forged custody documents related to Sophia, daughter of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden

    Billy Wagner to answer to charges for Rhoden, Gilley murders in Pike County

    https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx


    10 days prior to murders: A Facebook threat is made by a teen saying he will "Go up to Union Hill and take them all out"


    Sunday, April 17, 2016

    Hanna Rhoden gives birth to Kylie Rhoden

    Get Access


    Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - Woman sentenced in road rage incident court case involving Chris Jr.

    From <OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5>


    Thursday, April 21, 2016


    8am: Dana arrives at work - Hillcrest Nursing Home

    11pm: Dana leaves work - Hillcrest Nursing Home - 14 miles away per CNN

    Approx 11:20 pm - Dana arrives home


    Friday, 4/22/2016

    1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, allegedly exchanges text messages with Dana. This information has never been confirmed by LE

    [video=youtube;bf4ObgRJ_Xo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo[/video]


    2 am: James Manley later told by LE that he received a text from Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden. LE has never confirmed this.

    Pike County Murders: Father says it’s like ‘tearing the scabs off us’


    Between 1 am and 7 am - the following were murdered


    Bodies found at 3122 UHR: Dana, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden Jr.

    Bodies found at 4077 UHR: Chris Sr. and Gary (3 GSW to head)

    Bodies found at 4199 URH: Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley

    Body found near 799 LFR: Kenneth Rhoden (1 GSW to head)

    From <OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5>


    7:15 am: Bobby Jo Manley, sister of Dina Rhoden, arrives at Chris Sr.'s property to feed his animals. She says she was with two friends, identities have varied, not confirmed.


    7:15 to 7:40?: She uses a key to unlock the front door and sees the bodies of Gary & Chris Rhoden Sr. Exact time not known

    Pike County: 'I was not leaving those babies in there'


    7:49 am: Bobby Jo calls 911 Ibid.

    Audio of call




    7:53 am: PCSO Dep. Music and Dep. Chandler are dispatched to 4077 Union Hill Road in response to the 7:49 am 911 call from BJM. Ibid.


    Approx 7:55 am: Billy Jo Manley runs next door to trailer of Frankie Rhoden & Hannah Gilley. Door is locked, she hears toddler inside, asks him to open the door. She then discovers the bodies of Frankie & Hannah. She takes the children outside to her car.

    Ibid.


    7:15 - 7:53 am: Sometime after discovering the bodies, Billy Jo Manley calls her brother James Manley. He and his son go to the home of Dana Rhoden and discover she is dead. According to his wife, James doesn't go further into Dana's home, though he can see her legs and hear a baby crying.

    Ibid


    8:07 am: Deputy Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Deputy Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."


    8:12 am: Deputy Music, Deputy Ball, and Major Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] (later revealed it was James Manley) who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.

    From <OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5>


    8:07 am - 8:17 am: Time of death declared for victims.


    8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

    From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ly-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>

    12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

    From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ly-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>


    1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report discovery of Kenneth Rhoden’s body

    https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/listen-911-calls-from-pike-county-mass-killing

    Audio

    of call

    https://soundcloud.com/marais-jacon-duffy/911-call-april-22-in-pike-county-126-pm


    1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/


    1:49 pm - Time of death listed for Kenneth Rhoden

    http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/


    Saturday, 4/23/2016


    Abt 3 - 4am - LE arrives at Bobby Jo Manley's residence to question her; 5 others also questioned

    https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...tearing-the-scabs-off/DRBSBqKvEMPKFkRjaf4njK/


    Kenny Rhoden (cousin) calls 911 in Greenup Co, KY stating he is being chased by a green Chrysler in South Shore, KY.

    https://www.whio.com/news/crime--la...mily-member-tells-911/3Fm6pql2aHJxjcJAzeaxvI/


    Businessman Jeff Ruby offers $25,000 reward

    https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/jeff-ruby-offers-25k-reward-for-pike-county-killer



    Sunday, April 24, 2016


    Autopsies performed by Hamilton County Medical Examiner in Cincinnati, OH

    https://mgtvwcmh.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/pike-county-final-autopsies-redacted.pdf

    http://nbc4i.com/2016/09/23/attorney-general-releases-autopsies-for-rhoden-family-members/


    Thursday, April 28, 2016

    Funeral for Gary Rhoden, South Shore, KY

    https://www.dispatch.com/article/20160428/NEWS/304289800


    Jake Wagner files for custody of Sophia, age 2, his daughter with Hanna Rhoden

    https://www.wlwt.com/article/court-...ty-investigation-days-after-slayings/25141678


    Friday, April 29, 2016

    Businessman Jeff Ruby withdraws his reward of $25,000. News reports say he was advised not to discuss the withdrawal

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...ers-25k-arrest-pike-co-mass-shooter/83432754/


    Saturday, April 30, 2016 - Funeral for Hannah Gilley in Ottway, OH

    https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...ar-her-childhood-home/5n2hRlwvFmNks0R2gKtoRM/


    Tuesday, May 3, 2016 - Funeral for Rhoden family - Chris Sr, Dana, Frankie, Hanna, Chris Jr. and Kenneth

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...always-scar-this-town/yRPTKlTHsLqHb2kAg3M2lN/


    Thursday, May 12, 2016

    Trailers of family members Chris Rhoden Sr, Frankie Rhoden & Kenneth Rhoden were sealed and moved to storage at Hasdell Chemical Co. in Waverly, OH. Dana Rhoden’s trailer was moved later.

    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...nty-mobile-homes-moved-crime-scenes/84288652/


    Friday, May 25, 2016

    PCSO/BCI conducts a video interview of Jake Wagner

    https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys

    https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/upload_2019-1-8_20-5-19-jpeg.163299/


    Friday, May 27, 2016

    Death certificates released to news media

    http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/


    Times of death :

    8:07 am Chris Rhoden, Sr, Gary Rhoden

    8:11 am Frankie Rhoden, Hannah Gilley

    8:17 am Dana Rhoden, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden, Jr.

    1:49 pm Kenneth Rhoden


    Thursday, July 21, 2016

    Pike County Sheriff announces a $10,000 reward, 10 weeks late, after it was approved

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/07/21/official-10k-reward-offered-rhoden-case/87391848/


    Tuesday, July, 26, 2016

    Coroner, attorney general refuse to release final autopsies in Pike County killings

    https://www.dispatch.com/content/st..._final_autopsies_in_Pike_County_killings.html


    August 2016

    Jacob Wagner, father of Hanna Rhoden's older daughter, lists his family farm for sale. Location is 260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH

    Sometime after murders and before May 2017 raid on Wagner properties, it is determined through testing that JW is not the father of Hanna Rhoden's second child.

    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...-away-scene-rhoden-family-massacre/101600436/


    Monday, August 8, 2016

    Columbus Dispatch files lawsuit against Pike County Coroner’s office saying it is improperly withholding final autopsy results.

    https://www.dispatch.com/content/st..._final_autopsies_in_Pike_County_killings.html


    Friday, September 9, 2016

    PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with George Wagner III

    https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys


    Friday, September 23, 2016

    Ohio AG releases heavily redacted final autopsy reports

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...ses-redacted-rhoden-autopsy-reports/90912132/

    https://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/09/23/Pike-County-autopsy-reports.html



    Wednesday, October 5, 2016

    PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Angela Wagner

    Ibid


    2017


    Tuesday, February 21, 2017

    Ohio Supreme Court agrees to hear lawsuit case of Ohio newspapers seeking to view unredacted final autopsy reports

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-court-will-hear-debate-on-autopsies-of-8-family-members



    Tuesday, March 10, 2017

    Jake Wagner's Peterson Rd house sells for %165,000


    Thursday, April 13, 2017

    PCSO/BCI conduct an audio interview with Jake Wagner

    https://local12.com/news/local/jake-wagner-appears


    Friday, April 21, 2017

    Rhoden family members plead with public for tips to solve murders

    https://www.dispatch.com/news/20170...members-plead-for-tips-to-solve-massacre-of-8


    Saturday, April 22, 2017

    Pike County LE place a GPS tracking device on truck owned by James Manley, brother of Dana Manley Rhoden. LE claims it was placed there because the truck was related to an aggravated murder case


    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/


    Friday, April 28, 2017


    11:35 am - James Manley finds and removes tracking device and destroys it


    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/


    Wednesday, May 3, 2017


    PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Jake and Angela Wagner

    https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys


    Approx. May 5, 2017

    Jacob Wagner asks ___ Brown if he can store some trailers on his property. He tells him his farm is sold and he and his brother have found good paying jobs “up north” and are moving there. He needs to move out of farm for new owners. JW drops off 3 trailers at the Brown property “a week before the search.

    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...assacre-more-search-details-emerge/101713414/


    Monday, May 8, 2017

    PCSO/BCI conducts audio interview with George Wagner III

    https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys


    Friday, May 5 - May 12, 2017

    Sometime after dropping off 3 trailers loaded with furniture and personal possessions, Jacob Wagner and family leave the area. Later posts on FB show photos of them in a location resembling areas in Alaska or Canada.


    Friday, May 12, 2017

    Abt 11 am - PCSO, BCI, Adams County SO, Ohio Dept. of Corrections STAR and other Ohio LE agencies conduct a search at properties related to Jacob Wagner & family.



    260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH - farm formerly owned by Wagner's parents, where JW resided with his mother, father, brother, daughter Sophia Rhoden Wagner and daughter of his brother George.



    Unlimited Motors, St Hwy 41, Peebles, OH - Auto repair business and farm of ___ Brown, friend of J Wagner.

    Ibid


    Saturday, May 13, 2017


    LE team PCSO, BCI) raids Flying W Farms. Franklin County Sheriff's office assists. Franklin County claims their SWAT team accompanied the raid, saying they had an arrest warrant. FCSO later retracts the statement. A neighbor of Flying W Farms who witnessed the vehicle caravan entering and leaving the property is interviewed, claiming there was a SWAT vehicle and an ambulance present.

    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...elative-charged-evidence-tampering/101747576/

    http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2017/05/16/rhoden-investigation-intensifies/101759968/

    From <https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...co-oh-8-family-members-murdered.306329/page-8>


    PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Angela Wagner

    https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys


    Tuesday, May 16, 2017

    PCSO/BCI conduct audio interview with Angela Wagner

    https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys



    June 19, 2017

    AG DeWine and Sheriff Reader make public appeal for information about Wagner family

    https://www.dispatch.com/news/20170...n-about-family-regarding-pike-county-slayings



    Thursday, December 14, 2017

    Ohio Supreme Court rules against newspapers in lawsuit to release unredacted final autopsy reports

    https://www.timesgazette.com/news/22296/ohio-high-court-shields-autopsy-reports-in-rhoden-case



    2018


    April 19, 2018

    Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk says Wagner family remains the focus of the Rhoden/Gilley murder investigation

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...investigation-stands-after-2-years/531686002/


    Spring 2018

    Wagner family members return from AK to Flying W Farms and later South Webster, OH. George Wagner IV returns later, arriving before the arrests

    Per AG DeWine press conference at time of arrests


    Approx. July 2018


    Grand Jury is seated in Pike County to hear evidence and testimony in the Rhoden/Gilley murder case

    https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/custody-fight-key-pike-county-case/aIKzRHo4MOwwNc4x9IvkyO/


    Wednesday, July 18, 2018

    Rita Jo Newcomb testifies before the Pike County Grand Jury, later charged with perjury and obstructing justice

    https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx


    Tuesday, July 24, 2018

    Fredericka Wagner testifies before the Pike County Grand Jury, later charged with perjury and obstructing justice

    https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx




    Wednesday, September 19, 2018

    Unredacted preliminary autopsy reports of Rhoden/Gilley victims released for viewing by news media. Complete final autopsy reports remain heavily redacted

    https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies


    Tuesday, October 30, 2018

    Investigators gathered the final piece of evidence – a silencer

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...alks-investigation-and-whats-next/2012179002/


    Wednesday, November 7, 2018

    Lab experts completed examination of the silencer

    Ibid.


    Monday, November 12, 2018

    Grand Jury hands down murder charges against 5 Wagner family members and Rita Jo Newcomb

    Ibid.


    Tuesday, November 13, 2018

    Indictments filed, bringing charges against:

    George Wagner III, Angela Jo Wagner, George Wagner IV, Edward "Jake" Wagner, Fredericka Wagner and Rita Jo Newcomb. Arrests of all were made the same day

    https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments

    https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx


    Indictments allege George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Angela Wagner, Jake Wagner and Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge against Ohio AG Mike DeWine and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader

    https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...-bond-made-rhoden-family-massacre/2010483002/


    Wednesday, November 14, 2018

    AG DeWine says custody battle was at the center of the Rhoden/Gilley murders

    https://www.wlwt.com/article/6-arre...-killing-of-8-in-pike-county-ag-says/25055118


    George Wagner III waives extradition from KY, where he was arrested

    https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-ne...-billy-wagner-waives-extradition-1/1596958670


    November 15 - December 5, 2018

    All suspects indicted in connection with Rhoden/Gilley murders arraigned on charges and plead not guilty

    https://www.tdn-net.com/top-stories/53228/last-rhoden-murder-suspect-arraigned


    Link to Pike County Clerk of Courts/Case Dockets

    For information about charges, hearing schedules, docket, etc.

    https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...3slFUypQdLsM-OrQTOL3MTawuVIJicCV6NlLEK2J3s3aQ
     
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  9. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    @tlcya

    @Tricia

    Hi, Tlcya and Tricia! I've posted our latest timeline in the case above for reference.

    Next time we start a new thread, will it be possible to add some different links (including one to the timeline) in the original post? We're also putting together an updated case summary page.

    Thanks so much for your help! Please let us know how we can help. We know you're all very busy.
     
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  10. rsd1200

    rsd1200 I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh

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    Instead of having to go back and dig through a vid to find things, that I find important, I sometimes transcribe them. I have part of FW's first hearing transcribed. Thought I'd share in case ya'll might be interested.

    Excerpts from FW's Hearing in Nov. 2018.

    Summary;
    Atty. Canepa said that FW was present at, and participated in, the discussions at her home. Revenge on those not arrested, and on legal officials, in addition to escape plans if arrested, were discussed. They have info that FW shared her grand jury testimony w/her son, and his family, and, finally, an order was requested that FW not contact the victim's family in any way.

    @3:10
    In addition in your honor, we have information from a confidential reliable resource, source, that, there was, a, collection of individuals out at Ms. Wagner's home, on one occasion, on at least one occasion, I should say,
    in which she was present, along with her now capital crime defendant, son, Billy Wagner, along with the other three co-defendants, all charged with capital crimes, were present, and conversation surrounded if one or more of them
    got arrested, and what the others were to do, as far as taking revenge, on those persons who were not arrested, and,that, those, and there were individuals that were named, but they were to take revenge against anyone who went against them, including, but not limited to special agent schrader (?), sheriff reader, and A.G. Mike Dewine. There was also discussions of how they'd try to make an escape so, again, this conversation occurred in Fredericka's home, with Ms Wagner, being present for those conversations. certainly, I'm not necessarily suggesting that she would, you know, become a hit man, or anything of that nature, but, the state does have concerns about, her participation, in those conversations, and the potential coordinating of any of those sorts of efforts.

    @4:40
    I would also note for the record your honor that she was previously ordered by the specially appointed judge for a grand jury, not to discuss her testimony that occurred in grand jury, with any persons outside of the grand jury,
    and we, again, have information that she did in fact discuss that at length with other individuals, again, to include the, now-indicted, capital crime defendants, which his her son, and then her son's family, so, your honor again
    the state is requesting that range for all the reasons we have stated, keeping in mind that bond is not just to secure the presence of the defendant but also to ensure the safety of the public. I would ask the court to put an order on mind
    that Ms Wagner not have any contact directly or indirectly, or cause anyone to have contact with anyone in the victims' family, in this case. Thank you, your Honor.

     
  11. Trudie

    Trudie Well-Known Member

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    Well, that was less than interesting, imo.
     
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  12. Trudie

    Trudie Well-Known Member

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    I expected the state had very little on FW.
    Obviously, idk what the lie consists of. I THINK perhaps it might be regarding the ownership or purchase date of the BPVs.
    IMO, unless FW used her cc & purchased vests in person, it won’t be so easy to prove she lied.
    At least EVERYONE knows she did not lie pertaining to knowledge of the murder or in regards to covering it up.
    Moo
     
  13. RAISINISBACK

    RAISINISBACK Well-Known Member

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    So now we can assume that the reason the R's could not defend themselves is because the W's were wearing bulletproof vests. It is my understanding that the prosecution is claiming that Fred bought those vests for them and the vests were found in her son's (Billy?) room at FWF. I am assuming it would be Billy's room since Bobby does not live at FWF.

    So can we assume that if indeed Fred did buy the vests prior to the murders that she also knew why they were being used? And specifically what for? If so that makes her much more involved than previously thought.

    Personally I think the prosecution is being hard on her (her being a 76 year old woman) for making one false statement to the GJ. They are objecting to her house arrest being modified even to attend church. The fact that the prosecution is being so hard core with her leads me to believe that they think she at least knew about the murders before hand and may even have helped actively plan and carry them out but that the prosecution cannot prove any deeper involvement other than purchasing Kevlar vests. So therefore because they cannot prove deeper involvement they intend to get the maximum sentence for the OOJ and Perjury charge.

    Does anyone know what the max sentence for OOJ and Perjury is in Ohio?

    Regarding the Kevlar vests. We have often wondered why Kenny could not defend himself if he had a gun beside his bed. Even if Brownie woke him up and he grabbed his gun and got off a couple of shots it would not have affected the W's who were wearing vests.

    We have also wondered the same thing about Chris and Gary. The answer may be the Kevlar vests. Even fighting with your fists would be difficult against someone with a Kevlar vest on.

    JMO
     
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  14. RAISINISBACK

    RAISINISBACK Well-Known Member

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    What reason would she have to lie about purchasing a bulletproof vest?

    Is it because she did purchase them and lied because she knew exactly what they were going to be used for.

    I myself have purchased a bulletproof vest for hubby. If I was asked if I purchased a bulletproof vest I would not lie because I know that I purchased that vest for hubby to use while he is at work to keep him safe.

    So why did she lie?

    JMO
     
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  15. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    BBM

    Thanks, rsd1200!!! I'm still somewhat surprised they let her out on bond knowing that.

    So, yes, she was there and heard the conversations. JMO/IANAL, she could be charged with other crimes, possibly conspiracy. Didn't she realize by then that her son and his family had committed the murders? Were they discussing that fact with her? How much did she know and when?

    She didn't call LE, instead she went on to lie to the Grand Jury, resulting in a charge of Obstruction of Justice. In spite of the "no contact" order, she's still probably trying to control her family members in jail and doing her utmost that they avoid conviction. JMO, she wants these people back out in the community, posing a risk to the lives of other innocent people.
     
  16. almond

    almond Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because they had no reason to have bullet poof vests? I can't recall...I was distracted during the hearing..did they say 2 vests?
     
  17. Trudie

    Trudie Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Why would they have no reason to have vests?

    I think they said they were found in the bedroom of her son. Not sure. Poor audio, for me.
     
  18. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    She also listened in on their plans to seek revenge against LE and did nothing to stop them. That's pretty serious.
     
  19. Trudie

    Trudie Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t understand the portion regarding cards to jail. Going to listen again, on a dif site.
     
  20. almond

    almond Well-Known Member

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    Why would they have no reason to have vests? I'm thinking because the animal that you're hunting can't shoot back.
     
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