OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#45

[NWLady]

That was put into place on the very first day. IIRC, and I could be wrong, but I think that AG Dewine said, that after his talk to the media that day, everyone who was connected to the case, including himself, would be under a gag order. Everyone. That would include any lawyers connected to the case, I would think. If so, FW's atty. screwed up big time.

Here is a link to JW's first appearance where it is already mentioned by the Judge as well ....BBM

Pike County: First homicide suspect appears in court, enters plea

WAVERLY — The first of four capital murder defendants accused of killing eight of their Pike County neighbors in 2016 pleaded not guilty Tuesday to nearly two dozen criminal charges.

Also Tuesday, Judge Randy Deering issued a gag order, requested by both the prosecutors and the defense counsel, which prevents them and law enforcement from speaking to the media about the case.
________________________________________________
IIRC, this gag order has been mentioned during the pretrial of all 6 of those who are charged.

So, FW's attorney should be held accountable for not following the gag order, so why isn't he being reprimanded for it? It appears rather obvious that that's exactly what he did - violated the gag order. JMO

ETA the following:

Here's a link regarding FW's case and gag order... BBM

Rhoden family massacre: Fredericka Wagner argues for access to church, workplace

Owen told Deering he opposes the gag order because he wants the ability to address the media if he so chooses to "correct the record."

Deering ordered a filing be made for the gag order so Owen can file a response for him to consider.

While Canepa indicated she also would be filing a motion for a gag order in Newcomb's case, her attorney Franklin T. Gerlach didn't address it but did express opposition about another request preventing Newcomb from communicating with her family who remain in prison without bail.

Deering granted Canepa's request in both cases Thursday and ordered Newcomb and Wagner not to contact each other or their family members who are charged.

While Owen didn't object to Canepa's motion, he told Deering even though a no contact order hadn't been a condition of bond, his client "hasn't done anything untoward."

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

BIUBM

Same!

I too for some reason have become fascinated with this case. I don’t exactly know why

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

The crazy thing about this is her testimony referenced she is not afraid of "him". This would imply in my mind she was close enough to the activities, if the activities are accurate, to know who "him" is. SMH

Ive been super busy and have been out of the loop on the latest rounds of hearings. Can you please post a copy of her GJ testimony? I also saw snippets of a video interview FW did w/ Cleveland.com or something but I cant find the full text.

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

Now saying town is equally divided about guilt of Wagner family. Okay. Can any locals here tell us if that's accurate?

"Beloved" Fredericka? The only people who say that are employees, what else are they going to say? Now we're starting to see a bit of spin that is sympathetic to the Wagners. Trying to make it seem like LE arrested the wrong people.

I do hope someone else covers the case.

Yes, getting more sympathetic to the Wags, casting doubt about the custody motive.

"I hope they found the right people"
"Sometimes mistakes are made" etc.

Yes, please get someone else to cover this story besides Oxygen. Someone who understands that powerful, wealthy people in small towns do behave like tyrants sometimes and kill people. Especially if they're paranoid, enmeshed dysfunctional families in love with guns and violence.

Good luck trying to make the Wags look like innocent people. We won't let that happen, ok?

I am local but a transplant so we don't know many people, but the locals i have met are not on the fence, they believe the right people have been arrested

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

The second hour definitely could. They're making the arrests sound "controversial" when they aren't. Questioning LE, they make mistakes. Wags were nice people, etc. Someone has spread some money or favors around. The way they present this show is a real "bait and switch".

Oh, now the reporter is talking about how if the state screws up it will cost the taxpayers a lot of money because they arrested and tried the wrong people. Bull.

<Modsnip unsubstantiated accusations>

My direct tv package doesnt include oxygen channel, but does allow me to watch shows on demand. Can't wait for this to be available to watch.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

I watched the Oxygen show tonight and I was very impressed. I was afraid it would be more like tabloid fodder. IMO they tried to give a balanced representation and they came close although I feel it was more 2/3 for R&G to 1/3 for Wags. I believe, for legality’s sake, they tried to leave it open for the possibility the Wags ARE innocent so, God forbid, if they are found “Not Guilty” it doesn’t leave themselves open to law suits. Also, there is still a part of Pike Co that cannot believe the Wags did it so it they are appealing to those folks as well. It’s a good representation of known facts but leaves it open in such a way so as to not taint potential jury members and leaves room for reasonable doubt. This is JMO only.

BBM. A good reminder to be fair and accurate

 

[Tiff23fr]

Ive been super busy and have been out of the loop on the latest rounds of hearings. Can you please post a copy of her GJ testimony? I also saw snippets of a video interview FW did w/ Cleveland.com or something but I cant find the full text.

The section I reference is in here.
Exhibit 1 Wagner, Fredericka

 

[Betty P]

Ive been super busy and have been out of the loop on the latest rounds of hearings. Can you please post a copy of her GJ testimony? I also saw snippets of a video interview FW did w/ Cleveland.com or something but I cant find the full text.

If you go to the Media & Timelines thread, look for the document that refers to Fredericka Wagner and Supplemental Discovery. You'll find the partial transcript there. It was filed by Angela Canepa to show FW's actual responses in the GJ hearing. They're not what FW claims them to be.

Keep in mind, the State isn't accusing FW of lying about the age of the BPV's or when they were purchased. FW and her attorney are being dishonest when trying to claim that was the issue. It's a "straw man" argument.

The charges are less specific than that and we don't yet know. Some of us are speculating the perjury charges result from FW saying she purchased the BPVs, when someone else actually purchased them using her account.

But to discuss grand jury evidence in the news media in an attempt to make a straw man argument about the perjury charges is a violation of the gag order by FW's attorney.

As sworn under oath, FW is not supposed to reveal GJ testimony in a news interview and her attorney is violating his gag order by discussing it.

 

[Betty P]

I watched the Oxygen show tonight and I was very impressed. I was afraid it would be more like tabloid fodder. IMO they tried to give a balanced representation and they came close although I feel it was more 2/3 for R&G to 1/3 for Wags. I believe, for legality’s sake, they tried to leave it open for the possibility the Wags ARE innocent so, God forbid, if they are found “Not Guilty” it doesn’t leave themselves open to law suits. Also, there is still a part of Pike Co that cannot believe the Wags did it so it they are appealing to those folks as well. It’s a good representation of known facts but leaves it open in such a way so as to not taint potential jury members and leaves room for reasonable doubt. This is JMO only.

I thought it was a balanced representation up until the last part. In the last hour, it began to veer off with some cherry-picked information and speculation that Wagners weren't responsible and that LE had made a mistake in charging them. The only rationale they offered was that the Wagners were well liked in the community, a logical fallacy. They made the act of paying their employees for work seem like generous charitable contributions. Just because FW provided some meals for a person facing financial problems doesn't mean her son and his family are incapable of murdering a family of 8 people in a rage over child custody and other issues. Being wealthy and powerful in a rural county doesn't automatically make you a virtuous family.

Bottom line: Most of the evidence in this case is still unknown to the public and media. Making assumptions and using a tv program to selectively cast doubt on that evidence before it's been revealed to the public is most definitely an attempt to taint the jury pool and dishonestly influence public opinion. JMO

Also, in painting the W family's rosy reputation, they left out a lot of facts about their troublesome and legally fraught history in the businesses of horse breeding and other exotic animal trading.

 

[Betty P]

I am local but a transplant so we don't know many people, but the locals i have met are not on the fence, they believe the right people have been arrested

Thank your for that feedback! I had a feeling once the initial shock wore off and the pretrial hearings progressed, locals would begin to understand how this happened, how the investigation led to this conclusion. As it will happen when these trials go to juries, every person's opinion counts equally the same. So do the opinions of every person in the community surrounding these murders.

 

[rsd1200]

Here is a link to JW's first appearance where it is already mentioned by the Judge as well ....BBM

Pike County: First homicide suspect appears in court, enters plea

WAVERLY — The first of four capital murder defendants accused of killing eight of their Pike County neighbors in 2016 pleaded not guilty Tuesday to nearly two dozen criminal charges.

Also Tuesday, Judge Randy Deering issued a gag order, requested by both the prosecutors and the defense counsel, which prevents them and law enforcement from speaking to the media about the case.
________________________________________________
IIRC, this gag order has been mentioned during the pretrial of all 6 of those who are charged.

So, FW's attorney should be held accountable for not following the gag order, so why isn't he being reprimanded for it? It appears rather obvious that that's exactly what he did - violated the gag order. JMO

ETA the following:

Here's a link regarding FW's case and gag order... BBM

Rhoden family massacre: Fredericka Wagner argues for access to church, workplace

Owen told Deering he opposes the gag order because he wants the ability to address the media if he so chooses to "correct the record."

Deering ordered a filing be made for the gag order so Owen can file a response for him to consider.

While Canepa indicated she also would be filing a motion for a gag order in Newcomb's case, her attorney Franklin T. Gerlach didn't address it but did express opposition about another request preventing Newcomb from communicating with her family who remain in prison without bail.

Deering granted Canepa's request in both cases Thursday and ordered Newcomb and Wagner not to contact each other or their family members who are charged.

While Owen didn't object to Canepa's motion, he told Deering even though a no contact order hadn't been a condition of bond, his client "hasn't done anything untoward."

The gag order, is put into place, to protect criminal defendant's right to a fair trial. That way it keeps the trial out of the press and from being sensationalized to the point of not being able to seat an impartial jury. It is very rare that they do much to anyone, lawyers included, who breech a gag order, b/c gag orders straddle the line of the 1st and 6th amendment.

 

[Dudly]

The gag order, is put into place, to protect criminal defendant's right to a fair trial. That way it keeps the trial out of the press and from being sensationalized to the point of not being able to seat an impartial jury. It is very rare that they do much to anyone, lawyers included, who breech a gag order, b/c gag orders straddle the line of the 1st and 6th amendment.

The main reason the GJ is secret is so that if a person is found to be innocent, the charges against them are not public and detrimental to that person. If it is supposed to be secret, how anyone is allowed to speak publicly about testimony, I do not understand. I thought part of the charges against her was from discussing her GJ testimony with her family. So how can it be discussed in a news interview?

 

[Merrygirl]

I thought it was a balanced representation up until the last part. In the last hour, it began to veer off with some cherry-picked information and speculation that Wagners weren't responsible and that LE had made a mistake in charging them. The only rationale they offered was that the Wagners were well liked in the community, a logical fallacy. They made the act of paying their employees for work seem like generous charitable contributions. Just because FW provided some meals for a person facing financial problems doesn't mean her son and his family are incapable of murdering a family of 8 people in a rage over child custody and other issues. Being wealthy and powerful in a rural county doesn't automatically make you a virtuous family.

Bottom line: Most of the evidence in this case is still unknown to the public and media. Making assumptions and using a tv program to selectively cast doubt on that evidence before it's been revealed to the public is most definitely an attempt to taint the jury pool and dishonestly influence public opinion. JMO

Also, in painting the W family's rosy reputation, they left out a lot of facts about their troublesome and legally fraught history in the businesses of horse breeding and other exotic animal trading.

BBM I absolutely agree. Maybe there will be more to come out in future episodes, although I seriously doubt we will see anything about Fred that will come to light.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

If you go to the Media & Timelines thread, look for the document that refers to Fredericka Wagner and Supplemental Discovery. You'll find the partial transcript there. It was filed by Angela Canepa to show FW's actual responses in the GJ hearing. They're not what FW claims them to be.

Keep in mind, the State isn't accusing FW of lying about the age of the BPV's or when they were purchased. FW and her attorney are being dishonest when trying to claim that was the issue. It's a "straw man" argument.

The charges are less specific than that and we don't yet know. Some of us are speculating the perjury charges result from FW saying she purchased the BPVs, when someone else actually purchased them using her account.

But to discuss grand jury evidence in the news media in an attempt to make a straw man argument about the perjury charges is a violation of the gag order by FW's attorney.

As sworn under oath, FW is not supposed to reveal GJ testimony in a news interview and her attorney is violating his gag order by discussing it.

Owens is setting the stage for when the jury here’s it someone could have doubt JMO

 

[Myland]

The main reason the GJ is secret is so that if a person is found to be innocent, the charges against them are not public and detrimental to that person. If it is supposed to be secret, how anyone is allowed to speak publicly about testimony, I do not understand. I thought part of the charges against her was from discussing her GJ testimony with her family. So how can it be discussed in a news interview?

Jmo I believe the reason she can speak now is because she is charged. The prosecutor released the testimony to her jmo

 

[rsd1200]

The main reason the GJ is secret is so that if a person is found to be innocent, the charges against them are not public and detrimental to that person. If it is supposed to be secret, how anyone is allowed to speak publicly about testimony, I do not understand. I thought part of the charges against her was from discussing her GJ testimony with her family. So how can it be discussed in a news interview?

I know, but, what she discussed, had basically already been released. I learned nothing new really from the interview. She was under no gag order at the time either. Her atty. may have been. Even if it wasn't allowed, the most they might do is fine one of them, and it would be iffy if the supreme court would uphold it if either of them took it that far.

https://civil.sog.unc.edu/gag-order-punishment-for-talking-about-a-case-can-a-court-do-that/

Fair Trial Issues and the First Amendment

 

[RAISINISBACK]

.


Consider this all an opinion only.
Her employees, G4's ex in laws, have been part of the Wagner "family" for many years. They likely even ran around with AW & BW and know a lot of history. The employees and their families may have served in capacities as key figures in her church.

They may not have a lot of financial opportunities available in the general area and FW provides that. In their eyes she is a provider.

I think they actually hurt Fred with their statements. All that "she loves children", "she provides meals for children twice a week so she can make sure they have at least two good meals" "She teaches Sunday school for children". They hurt Fred with that. Badly. Because the whole time they were saying that, all I could think of is the killers went out of their way to make sure the three children at the crime scenes were not harmed. And the show stressed that too. The show went over and over the fact that three children were left alive and unharmed. Then they hammered for 15 minutes on SW and how this was all over custody of her. The great love the Wagners had for her.

So yeah, the killers loved children. And that show made Fred look like she was the mastermind who said "make sure no children are harmed when this is done".

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Towards the end, I got the impression Jeff Winkler's comments were edited quite a bit. They took a couple of minor things he said and tried to make it sound like he really doubted the Wagners did it. Earlier statements he made seemed to contradict that.

Just the fact they made this program when there's a gag order on the case and when very little of the evidence has been presented is very dishonest. They're trying to make it sound like all the facts are in and the case against the Wagners is weak.

In fact, only a small fraction of the evidence has been revealed. The prosecutor and LE are not allowed to discuss, clarify or offer rebuttal to this. That's very unprofessional and dishonest.

It was a fluff piece to get it out about the killings and how good Fred is. But they hurt her. Most people, I think came away with the impression that Fred loves children so the killers made sure to leave the three children at the scenes alive and unharmed.

But I actually think the show was a very good thing in that it will certainly generate international attention during the trials. A lot of people watch Oxygen. And if Oxygen is running it then maybe Discovery ID and HLN will pick it up. If enough news media is watching the attorneys will not be able to slip anything by and the judge will not be able to lean in the Wagners favor.

Other than that it didn't tell us anything we didn't know. In fact there were quite a few errors in the show.
JMO

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Who all is watching the 2 hour show tonight at 7?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I thought it was a balanced representation up until the last part. In the last hour, it began to veer off with some cherry-picked information and speculation that Wagners weren't responsible and that LE had made a mistake in charging them. The only rationale they offered was that the Wagners were well liked in the community, a logical fallacy. They made the act of paying their employees for work seem like generous charitable contributions. Just because FW provided some meals for a person facing financial problems doesn't mean her son and his family are incapable of murdering a family of 8 people in a rage over child custody and other issues. Being wealthy and powerful in a rural county doesn't automatically make you a virtuous family.

Bottom line: Most of the evidence in this case is still unknown to the public and media. Making assumptions and using a tv program to selectively cast doubt on that evidence before it's been revealed to the public is most definitely an attempt to taint the jury pool and dishonestly influence public opinion. JMO

Also, in painting the W family's rosy reputation, they left out a lot of facts about their troublesome and legally fraught history in the businesses of horse breeding and other exotic animal trading.

Aman