OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

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tlcya

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George Wagner is accused of killing a family of 8 living on a pot farm in Pike County OH. While first thought to be drug related the killings now could be the result of a custody battle. 3 other members of the Wagner family have been arrested as well. So many twists and turns and Websleuths members are on top of every single thing that happens in the shocking case.

The gruesome slayings have rattled this southeast corner of Appalachian Ohio, a region that culturally identifies more closely with neighboring Kentucky and West Virginia than the state’s northern cities.

[...]

Adding to the shock was the discovery of hundreds of illegal marijuana plants on Rhoden’s property, highlighting the region’s dependency on the illegal drug trade as jobs in agriculture and timber have dried up.

Audio 911 Calls

PRESSER: APRIL 27, 2016

Video Interview with Attorney General DeWine Published 8-13-16


Minors: You may discuss what is covered in the main stream media regarding the custody of minor children. If posting snips from articles regarding the children please redact their names. These babes are innocents. One day they will google their names or those of their parents. And plenty will come up. Let's be respectful of them and the catastrophic loss they have suffered at such tender ages. Thanks.

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Sillybilly

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ADMIN NOTE:

The number of off topic posts in this thread is unacceptable.

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Please continue discussion here.

Continued off topic posting will not be taken lightly and may result in a thread reply ban or other loss of posting privileges. Remember to stay on topic and do not discuss religion as it is also against The Rules Websleuths has in place.

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MittenScarpetta

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IIRC, JW's and G4's children are in state custody? So, are they allowed to visit with them per phone from jail and/or are they allowed to visit them in jail? I'm just curious. Thoughts please?
I believe the two children living with the Wagners were originally in state custody upon arrests. Currently, it’s JMO, but I don’t feel that is any longer the case. This is also JMO, but I’m extremely doubtful the two minor children are visiting their father’s in jail considering the severity of the charges and custody of one of those children is said to be primary motive.
 

Cool Cats

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IIRC, JW's and G4's children are in state custody? So, are they allowed to visit with them per phone from jail and/or are they allowed to visit them in jail? I'm just curious. Thoughts please?

Let's say we have a dad who has joint custody of his child, he has custodial rights to make important decisions for his child, but then he goes to jail.
At that point he is still the child's legal parent but he loses his custodial rights.
(some guardianship rights, important decision making rights, may still be in effect)

Now the mother has full custody and can make all the child raising decisions herself, including how she wants to handle jail visitation and phone communication.

Dad cannot force mom to bring the child to jail for visits or to take his phone calls. If the dad is cut off like that he would need a court order to force the mom to give him some communication with his child, at least through phone/Skype/email.

I think it's likely that GW4 and Jake have some form of phone communication with their child but it would be up to the guardians/Child Services to decide about in-person jail visits.
If the child's guardian wants to take them for jail visits they probably could (per jail rules) but I doubt that Jake and George could "make" them go.

**********Parental Rights of a Father in Jail**********
Parents incarcerated in a county, state or federal prison lose many of the rights that free parents take for granted. Prisoners who are parents don’t automatically lose their right to be a parent, but they often lose the means to continue to be an engaged, included and effective parent. There are many ways the mother of a prisoner’s child can legally block the prisoner from any kind of relationship with his child.

73979755.jpg


Basic Problem
Fathers who go to jail remain fathers, but only technically, according to the Center for Children of Incarcerated Parents, CCIP . However, parenting requires contact and inclusion in the child’s life and this is difficult for a prisoner to achieve or maintain while behind bars. When mothers choose not to include the prisoner in the child’s life, there is little the father can do about it.

Lack of Jailhouse Visits
A prisoner has no ability to force the mother of his minor child younger than the age of 18 to bring the child to visits at the county jail or prison, the CCIP notes. Although prisoner might try to file suit to force such visits, such a suit will require hiring of an attorney. There are no provisions for free legal representation from behind bars for these kinds of cases.

Refused Phone Calls
Most prisoners are allowed to make collect calls and paid-for calls depending on their monetary resources in prison. Fathers have the right to call their home but that does not mean the mother will accept a collect call, or answer her phone when the prisoner calls on his dime. The mother has the right to refuse to allow the prisoner to talk to his child on the phone.

Blocked Correspondence
Prisoners can write all the letters they can afford to write and send home, but there’s no guarantee that mothers will deliver letters to the child. Mothers can also easily intercept letters--both ways. Minors have none of the usual rights to secure postal services that adults have.

No Right to Information
Mothers of the children of prisoners have no legal obligation to keep in contact with the prisoner in any fashion once the cell doors close. Prisoners can do little to force a mother to interact with him or include him in parenting decisions unless he files a lawsuit.

Losing All Rights
If a prisoner still has legal joint custody of the child, some guardianship rights may still be in effect. Mothers may have to seek the father’s permission for the child to undergo life-threatening elective surgery, for example. If this becomes a problem, mothers can file a motion to have the incarcerated father stripped of his custody and decision-making rights altogether. According to the CCIP, most jurisdictions rule on these motions in favor of the mother, especially since the father often has no means to hire a private attorney and defend his rights in court.

Family and Corrections Network: A Father's Story

Parental Rights of a Father in Jail | Livestrong.com
 
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Niner

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Updated hearing dates. Sorry about all caps, but just copy/pasting! :)

Jake:
Court Dates:
06/10/2019 02:00 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

09/17/2019 09:30 AM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

Docket:
6/10/2019 11. DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PROCEED PURSUANT TO OHIO R. CRIM. P.42(E) REGARDING FUNDS FOR DEFENSE EXPERTS FILED
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W
06/10/2019 ORDER GRANTING DEFENDANT'S MOTION #11 DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PROCEED PURSUANT TO OHIO R. CRIM.P.42(E) REGARDING FUNDS FOR DEFENSE EXPERTS FILED
06/10/2019 JOURNAL ENTRY ORDERING FILING UNDER SEAL -- THE ENVELOPE TO WHICH THIS JOURNAL ENTRY IS ATTACHED CONTAINS THREE (3) MOTIONS AND THREE (3) JOURNAL ENTRIES FILED UNDER SEAL WITH THE JUDGE OF THIS COURT ON THIS 10TH DAY OF JUNE, 2019; THE CLERK OF COURTS SHALL HOLD THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE UNDER SEAL, AND THAT THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE OPENED, AND THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED, EXCEPT UPON ORDER OF THIS COURT OR UPON THE ORDER OF A COURT OF JURISDICTION SUPERIOR TO THIS COURT
06/10/2019 CERTIFICATE FOR COURT STENOGRAPHER FEE

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...wE43WAseMeRo*mVm1vaqZopMgipLm0EJ4HlLJi2yrmHUA


George IV
Court Dates:
06/10/2019 10:00 AM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

07/24/2019 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

Docket:
6/10/2019 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: PRE-TRIAL
Date: 07/24/2019 Time: 01:30 PM
06/10/2019 COSTS FOR NOTICES MAILED
06/10/2019 CERTIFICATE FOR COURT STENOGRAPHER FEE

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...wE43WAseMeRo71aXVmMizupsL6eIw4T6kqUDPrmElZd3A
 

Cool Cats

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Updated hearing dates. Sorry about all caps, but just copy/pasting! :)

Jake:
Court Dates:
06/10/2019 02:00 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

09/17/2019 09:30 AM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

Docket:
6/10/2019 11. DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PROCEED PURSUANT TO OHIO R. CRIM. P.42(E) REGARDING FUNDS FOR DEFENSE EXPERTS FILED
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W
06/10/2019 ORDER GRANTING DEFENDANT'S MOTION #11 DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PROCEED PURSUANT TO OHIO R. CRIM.P.42(E) REGARDING FUNDS FOR DEFENSE EXPERTS FILED
06/10/2019 JOURNAL ENTRY ORDERING FILING UNDER SEAL -- THE ENVELOPE TO WHICH THIS JOURNAL ENTRY IS ATTACHED CONTAINS THREE (3) MOTIONS AND THREE (3) JOURNAL ENTRIES FILED UNDER SEAL WITH THE JUDGE OF THIS COURT ON THIS 10TH DAY OF JUNE, 2019; THE CLERK OF COURTS SHALL HOLD THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE UNDER SEAL, AND THAT THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE OPENED, AND THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED, EXCEPT UPON ORDER OF THIS COURT OR UPON THE ORDER OF A COURT OF JURISDICTION SUPERIOR TO THIS COURT
06/10/2019 CERTIFICATE FOR COURT STENOGRAPHER FEE

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...wE43WAseMeRo*mVm1vaqZopMgipLm0EJ4HlLJi2yrmHUA


George IV
Court Dates:
06/10/2019 10:00 AM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

07/24/2019 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

Docket:
6/10/2019 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: PRE-TRIAL
Date: 07/24/2019 Time: 01:30 PM
06/10/2019 COSTS FOR NOTICES MAILED
06/10/2019 CERTIFICATE FOR COURT STENOGRAPHER FEE

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...wE43WAseMeRo71aXVmMizupsL6eIw4T6kqUDPrmElZd3A

Filing under seal in an envelope? What/why?..o_O
 

Betty P

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don't know - it's sealed....

Apparently, this has to do with the discussion yesterday about Jake's defense attorneys wanting to get money approved to hire some defense experts. Maybe they want someone to testify about ballistics or the evidence on the silencer part? IDK. Why would that need to be kept from the public? Bizarre.

They should give up the pretense and just hold these trials in private. :rolleyes::mad:

ETA: Why three motions to be kept under seal? I can understand sealing some things after a trial is over, but I don't understand sealing a motion during the pre-trial phase, before the trial has even begun??

ETA2: Here's an editorial of sorts objecting to this kind of secrecy in another court where it has become common:

When It Comes to Sealing Court Records, The Presumption of Public Access Requires That You “Just Say No” - Public Justice

The way I interpret it in this situation, is it really necessary to go to these lengths to protect the defendant from public knowledge of details of the crime they're accused of? According to the First Amendment, the court needs to show a compelling need for secrecy.

Why is this happening? It all starts during the discovery process. In order to handle the demands of complicated litigation, parties often agree to broad “umbrella” protective orders during discovery that permit defendants wide latitude to designate documents “confidential” without any showing good cause for secrecy, let alone the type of compelling need for secrecy that would be required to justify the sealing of court records.

Then, when time comes to file those documents with a court—for example, as attachments to a motion to dismiss for summary judgment—the parties often simply file the documents under seal, or file pro forma motions with the court asking for permission to do so. Busy district court judges will often then rubber stamp the parties’ motion without further inquiry, thereby inadvertantly disregarding the public’s presumptive right of access to court records.

JMO, it's one thing to seal from the public information about discovery evidence, it's a completely different issue to seal the actual motions.
In the opinion of some legal folks, the court is required to justify this action.

With the hidden motions, are Jake and his attorneys threatening to implicate other parties and crimes involved in the murders or events that led up to the murders?
 
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rsd1200

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I believe the two children living with the Wagners were originally in state custody upon arrests. Currently, it’s JMO, but I don’t feel that is any longer the case. This is also JMO, but I’m extremely doubtful the two minor children are visiting their father’s in jail considering the severity of the charges and custody of one of those children is said to be primary motive.
They'd not be allowed contact visits, but children are permitted visits to jailed parents. They've not been convicted yet either. It's possible.
 

sunshineray

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Just catching up on the two pretrials for the W brothers. Very concerning to me is how AC fumbled about there not being any DNA info/discovery to turn over to defense in GW4 case. She sounded very inept at that moment, IMO.
 

sunshineray

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The motions under seal in JW's case could very well have to do with his daughter and a lack of communication with her being provided to him?
 

Johnny B Bad

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Apparently, this has to do with the discussion yesterday about Jake's defense attorneys wanting to get money approved to hire some defense experts. Maybe they want someone to testify about ballistics or the evidence on the silencer part? IDK. Why would that need to be kept from the public? Bizarre.

They should give up the pretense and just hold these trials in private. :rolleyes::mad:

ETA: Why three motions to be kept under seal? I can understand sealing some things after a trial is over, but I don't understand sealing a motion during the pre-trial phase, before the trial has even begun??
If our tax money is paying for all attorneys and pays the court and jail fees why are they sealing thing from general public, these Wagners are not royalty nor are they the rank of the president of the United States, so if judge Deering seals things from the public eye watch out something dirty is about to go on! JMO
 

Betty P

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Just catching up on the two pretrials for the W brothers. Very concerning to me is how AC fumbled about there not being any DNA info/discovery to turn over to defense in GW4 case. She sounded very inept at that moment, IMO.

Interesting. Do you have a link or more specific reference? In which hearing was this, GW4 or Jake's? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to argue. TIA
 

Betty P

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If our tax money is paying for all attorneys and pays the court and jail fees why are they sealing thing from general public, these Wagners are not royalty nor are they the rank of the president of the United States, so if judge Deering seals things from the public eye watch out something dirty is about to go on! JMO

I'm still processing this and I think it may have to do with the Wags trying to drag into the trials people and alleged events that had nothing to do with the murders. Maybe its the Wags trying to falsely smear individuals and, by association, try to make it appear to the public that the investigation and evidence against the Wags was rigged and false. I don't believe that's accurate, but I do believe the Wags are evil and will make up any story or level any false accusation to get out of trouble.

ETA: It may be the court that wants this information under seal, not the Wags, because the accusations they contain are so false and inflammatory they could negatively impact public opinion and result in a mistrial. Most likely, that is the intent of Jake's defense team - to get a mistrial or something similar.
 
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OhioBlues

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If our tax money is paying for all attorneys and pays the court and jail fees why are they sealing thing from general public, these Wagners are not royalty nor are they the rank of the president of the United States, so if judge Deering seals things from the public eye watch out something dirty is about to go on! JMO

The W's have the right to a fair trial and the public does not have a right to learn about minor children.
 

OhioBlues

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If our tax money is paying for all attorneys and pays the court and jail fees why are they sealing thing from general public, these Wagners are not royalty nor are they the rank of the president of the United States, so if judge Deering seals things from the public eye watch out something dirty is about to go on! JMO
 

FrescaandSouthernComfort

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I'm still processing this and I think it may have to do with the Wags trying to drag into the trials people and alleged events that had nothing to do with the murders. Maybe its the Wags trying to falsely smear individuals and, by association, try to make it appear to the public that the investigation and evidence against the Wags was rigged and false. I don't believe that's accurate, but I do believe the Wags are evil and will make up any story or level any false accusation to get out of trouble.

ETA: It may be the court that wants this information under seal, not the Wags, because the accusations they contain are so false and inflammatory they could negatively impact public opinion and result in a mistrial. Most likely, that is the intent of Jake's defense team - to get a mistrial or something similar.


Very strange feeling that it is a Motion to Suppress. The Wagners want the witness and the
info about the suppressed or the prosecution wants the witness alive and able to testify at
trial. Believe it has been an undercurrent to the lack of response for certain discovery.
 
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