OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[Betty P]

Very strange feeling that it is a Motion to Suppress. The Wagners want the witness and the
info about the suppressed or the prosecution wants the witness alive and able to testify at
trial. Believe it has been an undercurrent to the lack of response for certain discovery.

Could be. Recall they were wanting info about juvenile court records of witnesses, identities and other info about grand jurors. If that's what it is, Judge Deering did the right thing, he just needs to state that it was to protect innocent people or somesuch. Sounds a lot like witness intimidation by the Wags. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The W's have the right to a fair trial and the public does not have a right to learn about minor children.

The sealing of the murders isn’t about children

 

[Berrybell]

I copied the below from Johnny B Bad because the thread #48 was closed. The one thing that stands out to me is the gun clips. Very few hand guns use a clip and not a magazine yes I know a lot of people do not understand the difference but LE does and the prosecution should too. Forgive me for a just a minute while I reference crazy rumors from the first year of the murders it was stated an antique and unusual gun was used in the killings, one of the few guns that is unique, not owned by many people and uses a clip is the Roth-Steyr 1907 8mm. I know the reporter could have made a mistake and said "gun clips" instead of magazines but I doubt it.

According to the documents filed in Pike County Common Pleas Court last week charging each of the four Wagners with eight counts of aggravated murder and a host of other crimes related to the Rhoden family slayings on April 22, 2016, they either bought or built what they needed to carry out their plan. The documents indicate they bought special shoes at Walmart and “brass catchers,” specially designed bags that connect to a gun and collect the spent shell casings. Prosecutors say they bought ammunition, gun clips and equipment to build their own silencers to muffle the blasts
Hey I got a question to ask all you websleutrs, How do you all think the 4 Wagners paid for all this stuff? Did they use FW credit card, if so she got the bill for it that would make her an part of the murders if she didn’t say anything.

 

[OhioBlues]

The sealing of the murders isn’t about children

The documents are sealed. No one here knows what is in the documents.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I copied the below from Johnny B Bad because the thread #48 was closed. The one thing that stands out to me is the gun clips. Very few hand guns use a clip and not a magazine yes I know a lot of people do not understand the difference but LE does and the prosecution should too. Forgive me for a just a minute while I reference crazy rumors from the first year of the murders it was stated an antique and unusual gun was used in the killings, one of the few guns that is unique, not owned by many people and uses a clip is the Roth-Steyr 1907 8mm. I know the reporter could have made a mistake and said "gun clips" instead of magazines but I doubt it.

According to the documents filed in Pike County Common Pleas Court last week charging each of the four Wagners with eight counts of aggravated murder and a host of other crimes related to the Rhoden family slayings on April 22, 2016, they either bought or built what they needed to carry out their plan. The documents indicate they bought special shoes at Walmart and “brass catchers,” specially designed bags that connect to a gun and collect the spent shell casings. Prosecutors say they bought ammunition, gun clips and equipment to build their own silencers to muffle the blasts
Hey I got a question to ask all you websleutrs, How do you all think the 4 Wagners paid for all this stuff? Did they use FW credit card, if so she got the bill for it that would make her an part of the murders if she didn’t say anything.

This gun is a Mauser C96 1896 to 1937
WW1 German pistol no paperwork to trace back to owner also it is a 9mm

 

[Dudly]

I copied the below from Johnny B Bad because the thread #48 was closed. The one thing that stands out to me is the gun clips. Very few hand guns use a clip and not a magazine yes I know a lot of people do not understand the difference but LE does and the prosecution should too. Forgive me for a just a minute while I reference crazy rumors from the first year of the murders it was stated an antique and unusual gun was used in the killings, one of the few guns that is unique, not owned by many people and uses a clip is the Roth-Steyr 1907 8mm. I know the reporter could have made a mistake and said "gun clips" instead of magazines but I doubt it.

According to the documents filed in Pike County Common Pleas Court last week charging each of the four Wagners with eight counts of aggravated murder and a host of other crimes related to the Rhoden family slayings on April 22, 2016, they either bought or built what they needed to carry out their plan. The documents indicate they bought special shoes at Walmart and “brass catchers,” specially designed bags that connect to a gun and collect the spent shell casings. Prosecutors say they bought ammunition, gun clips and equipment to build their own silencers to muffle the blasts
Hey I got a question to ask all you websleutrs, How do you all think the 4 Wagners paid for all this stuff? Did they use FW credit card, if so she got the bill for it that would make her an part of the murders if she didn’t say anything.

I'd, in my opinion, say reporter error, That said you can use both with the same gun...A clip makes loading a magazine faster...

Clip vs. Magazine: What’s the Difference? - Writing Explained
9 Most Misused Gun Terms - Guns and Ammo

 

[Betty P]

The sealing of the murders isn’t about children

Just a friendly reminder to many who are newer to this forum and Websleuths. Don't forget to put "JMO" (just my opinion) or "MOO" (my opinion only) or "IMHO" (in my humble opinion) when you make a comment as such. Otherwise, people assume you're stating a fact without attribution. If you are stating it as a fact, you need a link.

It's an easy mistake to make when you're new and takes a little while to get in the habit, but it helps everyone better understand where you're coming from. Thanks!

The Rules

 

[Berrybell]

I'd, in my opinion, say reporter error, That said you can use both with the same gun...A clip makes loading a magazine faster...

Clip vs. Magazine: What’s the Difference? - Writing Explained
9 Most Misused Gun Terms - Guns and Ammo

I am sorry but a clip and magazine are totally different and are not interchangeable. If your gun has a magazine you cannot use a clip for the gun. A moon clip is used to spread load a revolver but you wouldn't use a brass catcher for a revolver.

 

[Berrybell]

This gun is a Mauser C96 1896 to 1937
WW1 German pistol no paperwork to trace back to owner also it is a 9mm[/QUOTE

Doesn't the Mauser have a built-in magazine?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

RN’s filings in regards to her case.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Apparently, this has to do with the discussion yesterday about Jake's defense attorneys wanting to get money approved to hire some defense experts. Maybe they want someone to testify about ballistics or the evidence on the silencer part? IDK. Why would that need to be kept from the public? Bizarre.

They should give up the pretense and just hold these trials in private.

ETA: Why three motions to be kept under seal? I can understand sealing some things after a trial is over, but I don't understand sealing a motion during the pre-trial phase, before the trial has even begun??

ETA2: Here's an editorial of sorts objecting to this kind of secrecy in another court where it has become common:

When It Comes to Sealing Court Records, The Presumption of Public Access Requires That You “Just Say No” - Public Justice

The way I interpret it in this situation, is it really necessary to go to these lengths to protect the defendant from public knowledge of details of the crime they're accused of? According to the First Amendment, the court needs to show a compelling need for secrecy.



JMO, it's one thing to seal from the public information about discovery evidence, it's a completely different issue to seal the actual motions.
In the opinion of some legal folks, the court is required to justify this action.

With the hidden motions, are Jake and his attorneys threatening to implicate other parties and crimes involved in the murders or events that led up to the murders?

Maybe Jake doesn't want the other defendants to know what he is up to as far as defense?

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

RN’s filings in regards to her case.

Anddddddddd, I'm lost.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Anddddddddd, I'm lost.

Where’d ya get lost at puzzles?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

The documents are sealed. No one here knows what is in the documents.

I saw it suggested earlier today that the sealings could actually pertain to the defenses mitigation experts (paid for by the state) and keeping those experts confidential until the defense and prosecution make the exchange of their witness lists. It made sense to me, but again we don’t know what’s in the sealed documents. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

I saw it suggested earlier today that the sealings could actually pertain to the defenses mitigation experts (paid for by the state) and keeping those experts confidential until the defense and prosecution make the exchange of their witness lists. It made sense to me, but again we don’t know what’s in the sealed documents. JMO.

Will have to find out if this is standard procedure.

As for RN's documents, it looks like her defense wants to find some way to challenge the qualifications, etc. of the court reporter who took/recorded the grand jury testimony. Likely trying to find a way to have the GJ testimony thrown out. Not sure why they need that person's address, though, especially if they're seeking her personal home address.

 

[Puzzles8]

Where’d ya get lost at puzzles?

I'm not even sure!

 

[Dudly]

Pike County massacre: First trial date in the massacre of 8 in family

 

[Betty P]

I'm not even sure!

First page is on the top left, second page on top right. Below that the first page is on the left, second on the right, etc.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Will have to find out if this is standard procedure.

As for RN's documents, it looks like her defense wants to find some way to challenge the qualifications, etc. of the court reporter who took/recorded the grand jury testimony. Likely trying to find a way to have the GJ testimony thrown out. Not sure why they need that person's address, though, especially if they're seeking her personal home address.

I found that interesting as well, @Betty P . Did you notice the request in there for the transcripts from the devices confiscated from the Wagners?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I'm not even sure!

First page is on the top left, second page on top right. Below that the first page is on the left, second on the right, etc.

Sorry for an confusion @Puzzles8 . These documents are for Angela’s mother, Rita, and her charges for forgery of custody documents. And @Betty P is right about the order of how the docs should be read. For some reason the documents didn’t upload in the order they should have.