OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #2

[jenves]

bbm True but when the power goes out there are generators for back up. They could have used or supplemented power with generators and farm fuel is cheaper. jmo idk

It's not the power that they are concerned about when LE is alerted and starts sniffing around.

And generators being run for 12+ hours for weeks at a time usually have people asking what you got going on. Also, you have to purchase specific kinds of generators, ones that are more expensive then just the run of the mill generator.

 

[Elley Mae]

DNA technicians were currently examining 18 pieces of evidence at a state crime lab.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/04/25/sheriff-well-planned-and-methodical-execution-ohio-family.html



"They thought this thing through, whoever did it," said Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/04/24/manhunt-mystery-follow-ohio-bloodbath/83469888/



“I think they’re both dead,” said the woman, later identified as Bobby Manley by TCincinnati Enquirer. “It looks like someone has beat the hell out of them.”

The men had been shot in the head, execution-style.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ana-growing-operations-found-at-crime-scenes/

bbm

 

[SurfieTX]

I have so many scenarios going through my head. Including that yes, they have mentioned the pot, but if they had a sophisticated grow operation going on multiple properties, it is possible they were into dealings with other drugs. JMO. Money is money, and once people start making it.. They start getting deeper into it. Not all, plenty of people just stick to pot, but they appear to have had quite the operation.

Bouncing off of your post, but if anyone wants to read a memoir by a man who had dealings with both the NY mafia and the Mexican cartels, read American Desperado. It is not for the faint of heart and is very graphic. It gives insight as to the brutality, and how deep the corruption runs even into LE and the federal government.

 

[Cryptic]

I don't think that the FBI is ACTIVELY investigating, but several articles indicated that Hamilton County FBI is offering assistance.
Because of this, it makes me believe that we are dealing with organized crime for sure ( I keep leaning towards cartel- or hitman involved with some sort of drug trade)

Drug trade does make sense, and that possibility seems strengthened by the fact that all three properties had cultivated marijuana plants.

At the same time, the totality still seems strange:

- None of the victims appears to have had an arrest record that would be associated with life long and constant criminal involvement.
- How large scale was the marijuana growing? Was it commercial level or personal / semi personal use level. My guess is that level was not large scale commercial that would lead to cartel involvement.
- The drug being produced was marijuana, not say, crystal meth in large quantities.
- The family evidently has a good reputation, and are not known locally as say, a "crime clan", or simply a source of constant headaches.

Though the sheer scale of the violence points towards drug cartels, the murders could be the result of a local honor dispute that severely escalated. South east Ohio is part of Appalachia. Though the days of the Hatfields and the McCoys are long gone, Appalachian culture is still family based. As such, it is possible for a family to be seen as having taken a side and a dispute, rather than an individual(s) from a certain family. As for what could have led to the attacks, I don't know. Maybe property dispute, or involvement with a girl that led to accusations of something?

 

[Elley Mae]

Drug trade does make sense, and that possibility seems strengthened by the fact that all three properties had cultivated marijuana plants.

At the same time, the totality still seems strange:

- None of the victims appears to have had an arrest record that would be associated with life long and constant criminal involvement.
- How large scale was the marijuana growing? Was it commercial level or personal / semi personal use level. My guess is that level was not large scale commercial that would lead to cartel involvement.
- The drug being produced was marijuana, not say, crystal meth in large quantities.
- The family evidently has a good reputation, and are not known locally as say, a "crime clan", or simply a source of constant headaches.

Though the sheer scale of the violence points towards drug cartels, the murders could be the result of a local honor dispute that severely escalated. South east Ohio is part of Appalachia. Though the days of the Hatfields and the McCoys are long gone, Appalachian culture is still family based. As such, it is possible for a family to be seen as having taken a side and a dispute, rather than an individual(s) from a certain family. As for what could have led to the attacks, I don't know. Maybe property dispute, or involvement with a girl that led to accusations of something?

bbm someone a few post back put up a picture showing the property and a person by that name owns property above and below the rhoden property.

 

[cady]

Still, its hinky that with a population so small and such a large well-known family, that LE had no inkling of the "grow op" until 8 Rhodens were slaughtered????? JMO

 

[mrssmith23]

Drug trade does make sense, and that possibility seems strengthened by the fact that all three properties had cultivated marijuana plants.

At the same time, the totality still seems strange:

- None of the victims appears to have had an arrest record that would be associated with life long and constant criminal involvement.
- How large scale was the marijuana growing? Was it commercial level or personal / semi personal use level. My guess is that level was not large scale commercial that would lead to cartel involvement.
- The drug being produced was marijuana, not say, crystal meth in large quantities.
- The family evidently has a good reputation, and are not known locally as say, a "crime clan", or simply a source of constant headaches.

Though the sheer scale of the violence points towards drug cartels, the murders could be the result of a local honor dispute that severely escalated. South east Ohio is part of Appalachia. Though the days of the Hatfields and the McCoys are long gone, Appalachian culture is still family based. As such, it is possible for a family to be seen as having taken a side and a dispute, rather than an individual(s) from a certain family. As for what could have led to the attacks, I don't know. Maybe property dispute, or involvement with a girl that led to accusations of something?

As I posted a bit back, it appears this may have been quite a sophisticated grow operation.

(CNN)Investigators found three marijuana "grow operations" at rural residences where eight family members were killed in southern Ohio, state Attorney General Mike DeWine said Sunday at a news conference.
Authorities wouldn't say publicly whether they thought the killings were drug-related, but an official with knowledge of the operation told CNN's Nick Valencia: "This operation was not for personal use; it was for something much bigger than that. It was a very sophisticated operation."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/24/us/marijuana-grow-operation-found-at-ohio-slaying-sites/

 

[mrssmith23]

Still, its hinky that with a population so small and such a large well-known family, that LE had no inkling of the "grow op" until 8 Rhodens were slaughtered????? JMO

Sometimes those well known are able to hide things well..

 

[Toralei]

Drug trade does make sense, and that possibility seems strengthened by the fact that all three properties had cultivated marijuana plants.

At the same time, the totality still seems strange:

- None of the victims appears to have had an arrest record that would be associated with life long and constant criminal involvement.
- How large scale was the marijuana growing? Was it commercial level or personal / semi personal use level. My guess is that level was not large scale commercial that would lead to cartel involvement.
- The drug being produced was marijuana, not say, crystal meth in large quantities.
- The family evidently has a good reputation, and are not known locally as say, a "crime clan", or simply a source of constant headaches.

Though the sheer scale of the violence points towards drug cartels, the murders could be the result of a local honor dispute that severely escalated. South east Ohio is part of Appalachia. Though the days of the Hatfields and the McCoys are long gone, Appalachian culture is still family based. As such, it is possible for a family to be seen as having taken a side and a dispute, rather than an individual(s) from a certain family. As for what could have led to the attacks, I don't know. Maybe property dispute, or involvement with a girl?

I would like to add that in reference to the article posted earlier about the grow farms being discovered through the post office, there was a woman who was detained and questioned by police. She was picking up a package that was delivered to her husband from California. To my knowledge none of the females that were executed or involved in this were actually married. The article did not state that it was an ex husband or fiance or boyfriend it clearly said husband. So this leads me to believe that whomever was questioned in regards to the previous discovery had nothing to do with the Rhoden family. I suppose we could dig through their social media accounts and go back a few months and see if there's anything that they post referencing someone being stopped or arrested.
That being said, with the statements yesterday being made to the effect of discovery of several marijuana plants I am leaning towards the drug cartel. This may he controversial but given the level of conservatism in that area, and given the rhetoric coming out of the conservative side of our presidential election , if there were Mexican Nationals involved it is not that far-fetched to envision a scenario where the Rhoden family may have decided that the people they were dealing were on the verge of deportation. They may have gone off and threatened to deport them themselves in order to keep all the proceeds. I can definitely see retaliation if that happened. But again it's pure conjecture and speculation.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Elley Mae]

Any word on how entry was made? If most were sleeping when shot how was entry made without being heard? If I have read correctly only one location there seemed to be a fight/struggle with the two that looked to be beaten.

 

[steelman]

This definitely appears now to have been pulled off and orchestrated by organized, professional killers. I'm sort of at a loss to explain how they could have gained access to peoples homes without waking them up. Sure, maybe a couple of the places had the doors unlocked, but all 4 ? I suppose it's possible that the first home hit was were they gained access to the keys for the other three properties. Maybe that was the point of the beating, give us the keys or else. It seems as if only an insider would know that the Father , the main player in this, would've had the keys to all the different locations.

I think somebody hired this gang to do what they did, possibly to weed out the competition, possibly due to debt. I'd imagine there was a big pay day for doing it though. I'd also guess they used mainly shotguns to shoot the people with, meaning no bullets or casings to match to a gun. The D.A.'s comment about them taking great measure to cover their tracks indicates to me that these guys wore gloves and used weapons that are hard to track. They may have also worn something on their shoes in order to not leave footprints at the scene or in the dirt.

No shell casings, no bullets, no footprints, no fingerprints...............it's going to be a hard one for LE................by design.

 

[Elley Mae]

Has it been said if what was being grown was there or was it gone, how about money... being described as a grow operation there had to be a few dollars around. jmo

 

[desert-blue]

My guess is that it's probably drug-related, but regardless, those killed were those who knew something and had the ability to name names. The small children were spared because they couldn't rat anyone out. Whatever the dispute, I think it's safe to say that anyone that might be able to shed any light on it is dead.

Early reports stated that most of the victims were in bed and/or asleep, which means at least some of them weren't in bed/asleep. Those might be the ones that resulted in the bloody scenes? Also, if multiple people were killed at one residence, I don't see how that wouldn't awaken the others? I guess a silencer was probably used. Ugh. So sickening.

All speculation/conjecture. (Also, I'm not 100% up to speed - still sifting through articles).

 

[mrssmith23]

Has it been said if what was being grown was there or was it gone, how about money... being described as a grow operation there had to be a few dollars around. jmo

I have not seen it noted anywhere if plants were missing or money was missing, or if everything was left behind. I have so many scenarios. I can see it being drug related, and not. LEO is saying the rest of the family should be armed.. It all is so crazy to me.

 

[Madeleine74]

We have no idea if this was a major "grow operation".......they may have been growing pot inside of their homes for themselves or eventual sale, but if this is anything like their other enterprises suggested, it may have earned them not massive amounts of money. JMO

According to authorities, it is a 'major' operation, they were growing for commercial purposes (i.e. to sell to others). It was not just a few plants inside the house.

There is no way this execution of 8 people was not related to the marijuana operations. No.Way. And marijuana is big business..huge business. Huge cash involved. Illegal drug manufacturers may have big rewards in cash, but they do so at great peril, both from rival drug operatives, turf wars, as well as from being discovered and prosecuted and going to prison for decades.

 

[hikerchick]

I can't say that I'm totally sold on this being a cartel connected hit, but I can't rule it out.

The scale of this action leads me away from thinking a cartel was directly involved. Too big, too "loud," too much interest by the public was inevitable on this scale.

I can't think of any comparable cartel actions within the US, but I'm looking.

On the other hand, if it was cartel directed, it would certainly send a loud message.

It is not a stretch to say that a cartel could and would perform extensive surveillance prior to taking action.

Two cartel contracted operatives go on trial tomorrow (Monday) in federal court in Fort Worth for their role in a cartel hit in Southlake, Texas. Their role was surveillance.





http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2016/chapa/

(The linked article is Part 2 of a fascinating account of how actions and counteractioms can play between cartels and US law enforcement efforts.)

That is an example of how a cartel hit took place in the US.

The target in that case was a key player in the cartels, whereas the Ohio murders would only be smaller cogs in the machine if they were cartel connected.

Considering what was said today about the planned nature of these murders, I am inclined to think they are related to the growing operation rather than a crime of passion related to personal relationships.

This was about business -- the business of money.

Shatter is a concentrated form of THC that is in fact smoked. There is a huge market for it and the product is legal in Colorado, Washington, and elsewhere. Production methods can be dicey if people are careless and/or don't know what they're doing.

It's possible that this family's operation included shatter production and that they could be the people involved in the disrupted mail delivery.

We kid ourselves when we think we are shielded from the nature of drug cartels simply because we are on this side of the border.

They operate in the US less in the open than in Mexico, and usually behind other forms of drug trafficking organizations. The easiest way to find them is to look beyond and behind every drug trafficking operation. They're almost always there.

The question for me is whether a drug cartel would go this bold over a cannabis operation. I'm inclined to think not, but they might be willing to do so to send a message to US law enforcement regarding the broader drug wars.

I'm still not convinced that a cartel would keep the little kids alive-that's what makes me think it was a local or semi local competitor or a local that got burned by the family.

 

[Elley Mae]

Ok I just looked at the weather in that area and I am in Md and have had the window in my room open at night and it appears that it's been warmer in that area. I also have lived in a trailer home and they get hot inside, more so then a stick built home. From my experience anyway. jmo

 

[ARNR23]

I've never posted here before so forgive me if I have no idea what I'm doing! I live about 30 minutes south of where this happened and let me be the first to say that everyone who lives anywhere near where this happened is shaken by this, not just because of the horrific nature of the crimes, but because these things just do not happened around here. Our local LE agencies are not equipped at all to deal with something on this scale so I think everyone is probably a little relieved that Pike Co. had the foresight to bring in other agencies. That said, everyone is on edge due to the lack of information and the thought that the person or persons are still out there.

Marajuana grows are pretty common place in the country around here (maybe not on the same scale as this one), but it's fairly common nonetheless. A lot of people around that area are what are referred to as "country folk" and I just don't see the
perps being from around here as the sophistication and planning that was required for this are far more than anyone I know from this area would be able to plan and execute. Maybe I'm wrong, IDK, but I think it's highly unlikely.

I just wanted the give a little insight from someone closer to the scene than some of you may be. My son's baseball team has their first game tonight in the town next to where this happened, I'm not too excited about going up that way with things so
up in the air, but it appears, on the surface anyway, that things are business as usual for the most part.

 

[mrssmith23]

According to authorities, it is a 'major' operation, they were growing for commercial purposes (i.e. to sell to others). It was not just a few plants inside the house.

There is no way this execution of 8 people was not related to the marijuana operations. No.Way. And marijuana is big business..huge business. Huge cash involved. Illegal drug manufacturers may have big rewards in cash, but they do so at great peril, both from rival drug operatives, turf wars, as well as from being discovered and prosecuted and going to prison for decades.

I've also wondered since this IS a sophisticated grow operation, if they were in fact dabbling in other things that has not been released. JMO.

 

[ARNR23]

It has been warm enough around here for the past few weeks to leave the windows open at night for sure.