OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[rsd1200]

What kind of statement do you believe that to be by CG (the cover photo)? Honest question because I’m intrigued by your interpretation Also, I dont know if it’s that CG didn’t show up at the hospital or at Dana’s once HMR came home by his own choice OR if CG wasn’t asked or allowed to come to the hospital/Dana’s. Again, there’s so much we don’t know that it’s impossible to know why things like not going to the hospital happened.

I agree she did turn to JW as a rebound but it looks like she still had communication with CG at least until October because he had her ultrasound pic.

BBM
Agree ! However, JW was obviously allowed to come, and did.

I think that there was tension between CG and JW over HMR. CG put the ultrasound up there as an "in your face" thing, to JW. CG said he saw her around town and noticed her belly getting larger. However he doesn't speak of them ever really talking. He does say how he got the ultrasound;

In late September or early October, she sent him an ultrasound image of Kylie as a fetus. That image remains his Facebook cover photo.

That makes me lean toward she emailed it to him, or sent a copy via HHG. I think she and CG were having some issues, maybe CG was the rebound, back in May, after she and JW were through. She'd been with JW since 2011. That's a long time, plus, they shared a child. She'd likely never dated anyone else. Then, maybe CG was flirting around, or HMR just wasn't feeling the vibes, but hadn't called it quits with CG yet. Kinda awkward maybe, what with HHG & FR, and him being FR's friend and all before they even dated. JW comes over to pick up S, and HMR seeks solace with JW, (familiarity), all around the first couple weeks of August 2015. Little K was conceived and there were questions as to paternity. CH may have been #3. JW may have been just a one time thing, during the end of she and CG, and then she finds CH. That's as clear as mud, I'm sure.



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

 

[MizStery]

BBM
Agree ! However, JW was obviously allowed to come, and did.

I think Hanna was very young and trusting and unfortunately guys took advantage of her trust.

I think JW could be disrespectful towards her then waltz right back into Hanna's life.

JW could act all sorry about bad behavior and trusting Hanna would be forgiving. So JW played HR exactly like a fine turned :boohoo:

The more I learn about JW the creepier he becomes.

:cow:

 

[rsd1200]

I deleted my post you are absolutely correct. Those charges were later dropped. That was later noted. I apologize when I read the paragraph I was taken aback because that wasn't discussed. The reporter must have gotten that from some source of hers and of course it was dropped later according to the news website.
:cow:



This is from my previous post



If according to LM in the WCPO news a few weeks before the mass murders the elder Wagner and JW were both pressuring HR to give up her parental rights to SW.

That almost hints at they thought she was unfit. (My opinion). If the custodybattle centered on proving to the courts that HR was an unfit mother it was down right ugly.The accusations must have fixed some sort of scenario that there were illegal substances in SW inviroment.(my theory) I have no knowledge of what charges were levied but they had to be of an unsavory nature. :cow:
[QUOTE=MittenScarpetta;14084572]LM’s statements about custody of S. JW’s statements (paraphrasing) about wanting S to know her sister and be around her-then moving 4000+ miles away from. IMO, HMR had a very strong idea and feeling CG was K’s father. I believe HHG knew that as well. And there’s also so much info unknown because anyone who could contradict and say differently about JW or anyone’s statements, is dead and can’t speak.

[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if LM knows for sure though if it was pressuring for her to give up custody, or pressuring her for a custody agreement. Lots of folks get those confused and get really upset about them. I have seen that. It's happened within my family. That word, "custody", freaks folks out.

 

[Nickandnora]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9rucq90uchxout/1GCGK24R1VZ224622-Report.pdf?dl=0

So, it’s next to impossible to find the previous owner of the red truck BUT we can see mileage history. Mileage history gives us basically the dates the vehicle was retitled in a new owners name. When one transfers a title, mileage is always documented, thus we know when this vehicle was transferred from person to person by the mileage report. Notice the mileage history on my link. This truck was put into someone’s name on 2/24/16-almost exactly 2 months before the murders and was then put in JM’s name in 3/2017 when there’s another new mileage documented.

I have been searching my notes for this,I can not say where I got it but here is what I have,Pamela Franklin 10-11-15, Josh Brooks of Peebles 2–24–16, April Manley 3–2–17. I also have Manchester but for the life of me I can not recall why.

PF is most interesting,she shot her husband James who is dentist with a hand gun that could also shoot shot gun shells it was called the judge, she also had a 32. She was sentenced to 6 yrs served nearly 4 and was released March of 2016

 

[Nickandnora]

The truck changed hands on 8/28/15, 9/9/15, 10/1/15, there was no change of mileage with the 3 transfers, P F would of been in prison through her ownership, which makes me wonder if the truck was some type of prison IOU.

 

[rsd1200]

I have been searching my notes for this,I can not say where I got it but here is what I have,Pamela Franklin 10-11-15, Josh Brooks of Peebles 2–24–16, April Manley 3–2–17. I also have Manchester but for the life of me I can not recall why.

PF is most interesting,she shot her husband James who is dentist with a hand gun that could also shoot shot gun shells it was called the judge, she also had a 32. She was sentenced to 6 yrs served nearly 4 and was released March of 2016

So, that means that the vehicle in question, went to AM almost one year, after the murders, by way of JB?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

The truck changed hands on 8/28/15, 9/9/15, 10/1/15, there was no change of mileage with the 3 transfers, P F would of been in prison through her ownership, which makes me wonder if the truck was some type of prison IOU.

I noticed that as well. Very odd.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

So, that means that the vehicle in question, went to AM almost one year, after the murders, by way of JB?

And JB put this truck in his name 2 months prior to the murders.

 

[rsd1200]

I noticed that as well. Very odd.

Maybe, it is due to the odometer breaking at some point. If a vehicle is older than 10 years old, it is not covered under the Odometer Disclosure Laws. This was a 20 y/o vehicle at the time it was transferred to AM. It had 227,793 miles on it when it was transferred in March of 2017 (that is a low avg. per year, so it's possible the odometer could have broken). That is the only transfer that shows on this site, but it does show that one.

Vehicle History.Com
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehicle?Q1lRMnY2aktmTDBDVjlmQzRiOUFXa243ZXhMYy9FeG40UmNYWC95Qy9XVT0=

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Maybe, it is due to the odometer breaking at some point. If a vehicle is older than 10 years old, it is not covered under the Odometer Disclosure Laws. This was a 20 y/o vehicle at the time it was transferred to AM. It had 227,793 miles on it when it was transferred in March of 2017 (that is a low avg. per year, so it's possible the odometer could have broken). That is the only transfer that shows on this site, but it does show that one.

Vehicle History.Com
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehicle?Q1lRMnY2aktmTDBDVjlmQzRiOUFXa243ZXhMYy9FeG40UmNYWC95Qy9XVT0=

I don’t know if it makes a difference, but I paid for the report I shared. If you look at the mileage history, it starts at the beginning when the truck was first sold from a dealer to the one owner who had the vehicle for atleast 8 years. That report came from NMVTIS, which is the National Motor Vehicle Title Information system. So I just researched a little further and found this on their page. It’s interesting, considering the Rhoden’s were involved in car sales with salvaged titles. I’m wondering if this truck could have became a salvage at some point.

It’s also interesting to note between 8/28/2015 & 9/9/2015. JM’s truck has a 22,318 mileage increase in 12 days.

Also, between 8/2015-2/2016, this vin was reported with mileage to government agencies 5x. Almost a once a once average. I don’t know why, but NVMTIS has that information for a reason and my best guess is something to do with the title or maybe filing for a salvage title.

https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_auto.html

NMVTIS serves as a repository of information related to vehicles that have been in the possession of auto recyclers, junk yards and salvage yards. This repository is then used by states and consumers to ensure that junk or salvage vehicles are not later re-sold and ensures that the VINs from destroyed vehicles can never be used for a stolen auto (see www.nicb.org). Thieves use the VINs from destroyed vehicles because they know that the true VIN will never appear again on the road and because they know that if the VINs are reported to state motor vehicle titling agencies, there is a strong likelihood that the reporting may not result in a flagged or retired record (also known as a “kill title” report). Because NMVTIS reporting is mandated and because consumers and states can access the information, the system makes it much easier to detect attempts to use VINs from destroyed or salvage vehicles in cloning operations.

Although not required, NMVTIS can also serve as a tool for junk and salvage yards to check a vehicle history for any reason before accepting the vehicle into inventory.

 

[rsd1200]

And JB put this truck in his name 2 months prior to the murders.

Yes, I'm thinking he's familiar with some folks I've had on the side-burner.

 

[amauet1]

Maybe she did feel it was CG, however, if they had been together since May of 2015, and were breaking up, then she turns to JW in a rebound (which it seems she did), and JW's putting up a crib for K, two days before the birth, he's showing up at the hospital, and sticks around for the dna results, then it appears that in JW's thinking, that it was at least, "a 50/50 chance", that she was his. CG putting that up there on his FB, before he knew, is more of a statement, to me, because CG didn't come around and put the baby crib up, and he didn't show up at the hospital when she was born, he didn't show up at DR's, after HMR came home, to see, nor hold, the baby, either. Why not? If he's so sure? Maybe their breakup wasn't pleasant?

June, 2016



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

You know rsd talking about the hospital, made me think of an old rumor or something I read in the beginning of the case. Something about Reader being at the hospital the day or day after little K was born. It makes me think maybe now that there was some trouble going on there. If it's true that the Rhoden's and W's had a falling out, seems to me, none of the Wagner's would have been welcomed there. And didn't JW say he was there to bring little S to see her sister. My brain is kinda fuzzy today, alergies again. I remember JW saying he checked little K's toes to see if she had the family trait, hammertoes.

 

[rsd1200]

You know rsd talking about the hospital, made me think of an old rumor or something I read in the beginning of the case. Something about Reader being at the hospital the day or day after little K was born. It makes me think maybe now that there was some trouble going on there. If it's true that the Rhoden's and W's had a falling out, seems to me, none of the Wagner's would have been welcomed there. And didn't JW say he was there to bring little S to see her sister. My brain is kinda fuzzy today, alergies again. I remember JW saying he checked little K's toes to see if she had the family trait, hammertoes.

You are right. He did bring S to see her little sister. I have no doubt that CR1, FR, or DR, would have shown him the door had it not been Kosher for him to be there. When my daughter had our grandchild, I was right there, in the room. My husband was waiting outside the door. Even though she and her bf had split, and he was being a bit of an @ss, and she had moved back in with us, he still came to the hospital and was there for the birth, and held the baby and had a picture with the baby (thankfully). If my daughter had not wanted him there, we'd have ensured that he'd been escorted out. Post haste.

 

[amauet1]

I deleted my post you are absolutely correct. Those charges were later dropped. That was later noted. I apologize when I read the paragraph I was taken aback because that wasn't discussed. The reporter must have gotten that from some source of hers and of course it was dropped later according to the news website.
:cow:



This is from my previous post



If according to LM in the WCPO news a few weeks before the mass murders the elder Wagner and JW were both pressuring HR to give up her parental rights to SW.

That almost hints at they thought she was unfit. (My opinion). If the custodybattle centered on proving to the courts that HR was an unfit mother it was down right ugly.The accusations must have fixed some sort of scenario that there were illegal substances in SW inviroment.(my theory) I have no knowledge of what charges were levied but they had to be of an unsavory nature. :cow:
[QUOTE=MittenScarpetta;14084572]LM’s statements about custody of S. JW’s statements (paraphrasing) about wanting S to know her sister and be around her-then moving 4000+ miles away from. IMO, HMR had a very strong idea and feeling CG was K’s father. I believe HHG knew that as well. And there’s also so much info unknown because anyone who could contradict and say differently about JW or anyone’s statements, is dead and can’t speak.

[/QUOTE]

In the custody "battle" they had to know there was no way, that HMR would give her baby over to anybody as a mother, much less to the W's. W's or JW said they were questioned about business associates CRsr had and that they gave LE/BCI that info. I think most of us think the new place was bought due to the custody battle. No drugs, no bunch of junk cars, no crowded run down rooms for the babies to live in there. Just a nice pretty place with more bedrooms for all, including CRjr, HMR, and DR/CRsr. The Rhoden families have a reputation of being proud, and strong. I see all this family banding together when harm or threat comes to one of their own.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

The thought has crossed my mind that BJM lied about what time she found the bodies. I think she stalled long enough to call LM to maybe take something from the homes that she or he wanted.

Like I say it just crossed my mind at times and in no way am I saying LM is the killer. My entire sympathy is with him, his wife, GR and HHG's parents. I just think it is why LE because suspicious of her from the beginning.

JMO

Did you also find it odd that BJM had two friends with her that early in the morning? I guess for me that’s something that’s considered outside of the “norm”. Maybe I wouldn’t find it odd had it been late morning, say after 10am, but 7 am is early (atleast in my world because I’m not a morning person). JMHO

 

[rsd1200]

In the custody "battle" they had to know there was no way, that HMR would give her baby over to anybody as a mother, much less to the W's. W's or JW said they were questioned about business associates CRsr had and that they gave LE/BCI that info. I think most of us think the new place was bought due to the custody battle. No drugs, no bunch of junk cars, no crowded run down rooms for the babies to live in there. Just a nice pretty place with more bedrooms for all, including CRjr, HMR, and DR/CRsr. The Rhoden families have a reputation of being proud, and strong. I see all this family banding together when harm or threat comes to one of their own.

At one point, they were all living in what became FR's trailer weren't they? KR lived in the yellow house for awhile, then moved to LF, and it's possible that CR1 was staying in the "business" trailer to show that he wasn't living under the same roof as DR (her relationship status was "it's complicated"). That distanced the "business" from all of the kids, and grandkids.

 

[amauet1]

I think Hanna was very young and trusting and unfortunately guys took advantage of her trust.

I think JW could be disrespectful towards her then waltz right back into Hanna's life.

JW could act all sorry about bad behavior and trusting Hanna would be forgiving. So JW played HR exactly like a fine turned :boohoo:

The more I learn about JW the creepier he becomes.

:cow:

Yes, the more I read about him, he does seem to have an air of entitlement. But Lord don't the kids of today all have that attitude today?

 

[rsd1200]

I don’t know if it makes a difference, but I paid for the report I shared. If you look at the mileage history, it starts at the beginning when the truck was first sold from a dealer to the one owner who had the vehicle for atleast 8 years. That report came from NMVTIS, which is the National Motor Vehicle Title Information system. So I just researched a little further and found this on their page. It’s interesting, considering the Rhoden’s were involved in car sales with salvaged titles. I’m wondering if this truck could have became a salvage at some point.

It’s also interesting to note between 8/28/2015 & 9/9/2015. JM’s truck has a 22,318 mileage increase in 12 days.

Also, between 8/2015-2/2016, this vin was reported with mileage to government agencies 5x. Almost a once a once average. I don’t know why, but NVMTIS has that information for a reason and my best guess is something to do with the title or maybe filing for a salvage title.

https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_auto.html

Very interesting, but could it have been used as a state work vehicle, and had mandatory vehicle checks. I didn't work for the state but if we drove a company car, we had to have mandatory checks done, and do walk arounds each morning. Mileage checks were part of how they tracked when a mandatory check-up was done, etc... I never asked for a company car b/c of all the headache. I just carried the mandatory insurance limits required by the company, on my own vehicle, and got reimbursed for mileage. I ran the VIN on another site and it came back that there was no salvage titles applied for and that's pretty much all that site checked for. If it was stolen, and if it was a salvage (I'm too cheap to pay for the carfax... but Kudos to you! ).

 

[amauet1]

Maybe, it is due to the odometer breaking at some point. If a vehicle is older than 10 years old, it is not covered under the Odometer Disclosure Laws. This was a 20 y/o vehicle at the time it was transferred to AM. It had 227,793 miles on it when it was transferred in March of 2017 (that is a low avg. per year, so it's possible the odometer could have broken). That is the only transfer that shows on this site, but it does show that one.

Vehicle History.Com
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehicle?Q1lRMnY2aktmTDBDVjlmQzRiOUFXa243ZXhMYy9FeG40UmNYWC95Qy9XVT0=

A mechanic (ex) back in the day, could roll back the odometer. But I don't know if you can on newer cars/trucks, they have computer's now. But it's easy enough to have a diagnostic machine or your one now. Since all the Rhonden's. Wagners , Manley's worked in the car business, bet one of them knew how.Js

 

[amauet1]

I don’t know if it makes a difference, but I paid for the report I shared. If you look at the mileage history, it starts at the beginning when the truck was first sold from a dealer to the one owner who had the vehicle for atleast 8 years. That report came from NMVTIS, which is the National Motor Vehicle Title Information system. So I just researched a little further and found this on their page. It’s interesting, considering the Rhoden’s were involved in car sales with salvaged titles. I’m wondering if this truck could have became a salvage at some point.

It’s also interesting to note between 8/28/2015 & 9/9/2015. JM’s truck has a 22,318 mileage increase in 12 days.

Also, between 8/2015-2/2016, this vin was reported with mileage to government agencies 5x. Almost a once a once average. I don’t know why, but NVMTIS has that information for a reason and my best guess is something to do with the title or maybe filing for a salvage title.

https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_auto.html

The way I remember it, you used to need the title of a car changed to salvage to be able to "junk it" and get money for parts from it, at least that was what happened in Ky.
Seems to me, that in Ohio if it's a salvaged title you have to register it again and prove that it's road worthy and it is issued a new title, I think.