OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[Becky Starkey]

It is strange, really. Does it seem like there's really a legitimate business at that location? The house itself doesn't seem very large. Wouldn't they need some kind of licensing to care for patients there? A doctor who came by to visit? A registered nurse?

The church in the other building seems odd, too. It doesn't seem to mention a pastor or name of the church. Need to do more digging. Last year, I thought these were just references to old businesses that didn't exist any more, but it seems they're still active.

To those just joining in, these are businesses owned by FW, the grandmother of JW. They're located on property owned by the family, just a short distance away from Flying W Farms.

I was also wondering if having a business for storing or selling "survivalist" food would be a good front for an underground grow op?

Did their pastor, Kelly Cinereski ever use this building to preach sermons when he lived in Ohio?

https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...ttended-church-sunday/06QvCpPXYWyecVs4UY9anM/



Minford,OH isn't too far away from Crystal Springs Home, Inc. He may have driven up there to preach for them at their own church. If not him, who does preach there? Are these some kind of private services, as the church doesn't seem to advertise anything.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Min...efd741ef7b0c67!2m2!1d-83.1095214!2d38.9932905

Seems like all these families were trying all different kinds of businesses, trying to find one that would be viable for them. I'd say any of them could be used as a front for grows, money laundering, or some other illegal activity.

 

[rsd1200]

O/T JUSTIFY wins the 144th Kentucky Derby! Sorry ya'll The Kentucky Derby is almost like Christmas to me.

 

[Betty P]

In regards to the house, I don’t believe a dr or nurse needs to visit a group home. IF it is a true group home, group home habitants are physically driven to doctors appointments. A group home is very different from a nursing home. Typically, group homes have 3 or 4 individuals living in one house that need 24 hour assistance and not full care. My best friend worked at a group home years ago. A group home is literally ran like a normal household, minus private caretakers rotating shifts. Comparable to an older child needing a babysitter.

The church. Ahhh the church. I believe that church could be used by an off gridder who is Native American or at Least follows the Native American religious cultures- to an extent. This person would live close by and would be close friends with the W’s, enjoying hunting with them (before they moved of course). I would guess as close by as Williams road in Piketon, IMO. My thoughts on the church are all hypothetical of course. I wonder if they’ve ever had EASTER service there?

These businesses are still very active, it seems. I may have to inquire about that group home for my aunt and see what they have to offer as far as care, who operates the place and if they have any openings.

Crystal Springs Home, Inc is a licensed facility. Seems like on their last compliance report, they had some problems

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkId=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Provider failed to ensure restrictive measures addressed and
approved by the HCR. Provider is currently using an
unapproved restrictive strategy by using a baby monitor and a
motion sensor in the kitchen area to observe individuals out of
view of staff.
Both monitoring devices were removed from the kitchen
during the review

Some employees had criminal records, said to be from a long time ago.

Provider didn't do background checks on employees

They are a licensed facility

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkID=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Assume that means they can administer prescription drugs to patients

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov/provider_results.aspx?providerID=6006362

And the church is right nearby

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...sAF1QipPN-wmoYLruTVhe6w7suVvxP0a87qeOCm96Uoqx

 

[MittenScarpetta]

What were they involved in that escalated the situation with the Rhodens to such a dangerous level? Who, among those the W's did business with would have become so upset that they had to arrange the killing of 8 family members to send a big message to the locals and LE? Were the persons who carried out or arranged the killings unaware that it would create such a media firestorm? For those who think the W's did it on their own (local hillbilly theory) were they unaware how much publicity and LE scrutiny it would bring down on them and their community?

I can only give my opinion, because I don’t know for fact. Perhaps, they were involved in a bad business deal. Maybe over land? Or it could really be as simple as two feuding families. Two sets of parents trying to protect their child and grandchild. Maybe the Rhoden family was fed up with the W’s hanging their money and status over their heads as a way to get S. So, CRsr purchased a nice home for his daughter and grandchild to reside in with DR. That would have infuriated the W’s because any chance they had at using living conditions as leverage to get S was now gone. Fast forward a couple weeks and maybe the W’s thought they could persuade HMR to sign off custody, taking advantage of her being young and naive. But that didn’t work either, which then lead to a confrontation between the two fathers of the families. Again, the W’s were defeated. How many times does one family, who’s used to power and having the upper hand, get defeated, until they erupt?

Now, let’s look at the day baby K was born. IMO, JW was only at that hospital to bring S there to see her new sister. And to check for one feature that may elude to the new baby being his. His interviews say that he saw that feature on the child, but did he really? No one can confirm that but him. Hanna May is dead and can’t speak to what happened in that hospital room. But one thing that stuck out to me, is how JW mentioned pulling the sock off the newborns foot. Newborns don’t wear socks in the hospital. The majority of hospitals no longer let you even dress a newborn in regular clothes for safety precautions (kidnapping). Newborns have id bands on their ankles as well and that also make it difficult for socks on the feet while still in the hospital. We know now, the baby was not his, so IF he saw that family feature, his eyes must’ve been deceiving him.

Fast forward to April 22, 2016. S was in the custody of JW and was to be returned home that night. In the mean time, all of the above transpired. HMR is no longer pregnant. JW doesn’t have to worry about an unborn child that he thinks may be his, dying inside the womb of her murdered mother. For the W’s, all of this could have meant it was time to set their plan in motion.

And that mysterious text message, what if JM happened to be our late that night and texted JW because he saw JW somewhere? Like a “hey man just saw your truck, what are you doing out this late” kinda text.

This is all of course hypothetical and just my opinions. I do know people have murdered for way less. It doesn’t have to take drug cartels, sending messages to the living, or long thought out planning. Sometimes, there’s a lot in the small pictures of shady businesses and people growing marijuana, that clouds the simple big picture.

 

[molly1255]

Seems like all these families were trying all different kinds of businesses, trying to find one that would be viable for them. I'd say any of them could be used as a front for grows, money laundering, or some other illegal activity.

Those of you who have watched the Netflix series "Ozark", might remember the episode where certain church members were handing out bibles to other church members before services. It turned out that those bibles were hollowed out and filled with drugs (heroin, I believe). They had a drug distribution ring going on.

Perhaps I've been on websleuths too much recently, and I've been also following the GSK case, and it is beyond chilling, but I just went to the website for the W's AK church and there was a link on that site to the OH church. The OH church has a ministry that publishes bibles.

My hair stood up on the back of my neck when I saw that. But it is impossible - right?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Crystal Springs Home, Inc is a licensed facility. Seems like on their last compliance report, they had some problems

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkId=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Provider failed to ensure restrictive measures addressed and
approved by the HCR. Provider is currently using an
unapproved restrictive strategy by using a baby monitor and a
motion sensor in the kitchen area to observe individuals out of
view of staff.
Both monitoring devices were removed from the kitchen
during the review

Some employees had criminal records, said to be from a long time ago.

Provider didn't do background checks on employees

They are a licensed facility

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkID=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Assume that means they can administer prescription drugs to patients

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov/provider_results.aspx?providerID=6006362

And the church is right nearby

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...sAF1QipPN-wmoYLruTVhe6w7suVvxP0a87qeOCm96Uoqx

Yes, it is for sure licensed. I agree with the fact that they can administer medications BUT the term administer medications in a group home means to make sure the residents take their prescribed medicines. There aren’t any medicines kept on hand that haven’t been written by a physician and then filled by a pharmacy. Where as a nursing home, does have a stocked pharmacy closet/room.

This link describes the difference and OH regulations.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/report/state-residential-care-and-assisted-living-policy-2004/ohio

Screenshot from your link earlier, just to show that this is group home.

ETA-I’d also like to point out this group home is for the developmentally disabled and also has a Bridge #, which indicates food stamps. Developmentally disabled people all receive SSI, food stamps, Medicaid and sometimes Medicare. Typically, when an individual lives in a residential group home, they have to pay rent to be there (out of their SSI check). There’s no billing done to insurances, like a nursing home.

 

[amauet1]

Keep looking. There were some LLC's registered in the grandmother's name, IIRC. Health care related. I'll see if I can find my old post on it from back at the time the farms were raided. You may also want to cross check the people who entered land contract with Wagners on their properties.

ETA: Here we go:


Crystal Springs Home Inc

799 Mount Etna Road
Piketon, OH 45661
Phone: Show Number

Crystal Springs Home Inc is a privately held company in Piketon, OH and is a Unknown business.

Categorized under Mental Retardation Hospitals. Our records show it was established in 1986 and incorporated in Ohio. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of less than $500,000 and employs a staff of approximately 1 to 4.

https://www.manta.com/c/mmnj2hx/crystal-springs-home-inc

When you search the address under Google Maps, it brings up a photo of a room with church pews.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/C...efd741ef7b0c67!8m2!3d38.9932905!4d-83.1095214


Zoom in on Google Maps and it looks like a church, not a health care services facility.

ETA2: I wonder if this church/health care services business is related in any way to the churches the younger W's are a member?

And here we go on these LLC's with 1-4 employee's and land contracts. OK let me see, people in the area that have these things in common. Robin Waddell co owner of BBL shares ownership with Barry Mc Farland, has LLC's connected to Southern Ohio Healthcare.Owned/s Scioto Trading Co where Dana was selling cars. Don't know if he is involved with land contracts. Skid Montgomery, kinda of the land contract king around Pike and Scioto Co's. Owns a Flea Market in Pike Co were CRsr sold stuff. Owns Southbound Land Co. and some LLC's. Now Frediricka and George Wagner more land contracts and LLC's. CRsr was accumulating land, in LLC's Car businesses and other businesses. I have "heard " that Adams Co National Bank has "helped finance" a lot of "projects" for people, but they are a bank, and that's what they do.
All well to do business people with a lot in common it seems. How did CRsr fit in all this. Was he coming up and trying to either go legit or learning from the pro's how to look legit?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Saw this posted elsewhere earlier and wanted to share. It’s not related to the case, but shows how easily someone can snap and kill entire families. Had this one person not survived, I’d bet there’d be all kinds of theories. But she lived and was able to tell who murdered all of her family members.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cri...-guilty-bizarre-east-texas-campsite-slaying-6

 

[amauet1]

Oh, and I've heard of some kind of church on the Wagner land. And my understanding is while in Alaska they are members of a church affiliated with their "religion" whatever their denomination is. Something is going on with all the Health Care facilities in Pike and surrounding counties, so many of them and so many people associated with them, who don't have medical backgrounds. The "church" that the Wagner's are involved in, kinda reminds me of a "cult" where they home school their children to keep them away from the public in order to isolate them and keep control of them and their "flock", All JMO.

 

[amauet1]

An absolute documented fact is when Jake gave interviews (plural & every reporter could not have head him wrong!)
JW always stated the event as he picked up Sophie a day earlier.

It is not until the 2017 interview that AW gave the same event only she changed the dates the exchange took place on s different date. AW sounds like she runs the show and everyone in the Wagner family kowtows to her. I think AW was the trouble maker in the custody despute because she wanted JW to have sole custody.

This is my opinion only. I have not came to this conclusion lightly. Please feel free to disagree. But :bee: kind.



Here it is everyone the revisionist namely AW changing the date SW was picked up. It's obvious she wants to distant the Wagners from ground zero CS.

• [FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]​:cow:[/FONT]

She probably threatened with a lawsuit if they didn't change the statement. Has "friends" that are very powerful?

 

[amauet1]

Yes, LM knows of or has heard about something. I wonder if DR said something to him about something that happened in the nursing home where she worked? I wonder if she did any work for the business owned by the W family? Wasn't it said that she also did nursing work in people's homes? I wonder if anyone in the W family was a partner in other nursing businesses, like a nursing home?

She would have to be certified as an independent nurse's aid to work privately in people's homes to get paid from medicare/medicaid. Most nursing homes don't like to work with independents, it conflict's with scheduling at their facility .

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Crystal Springs Home, Inc is a licensed facility. Seems like on their last compliance report, they had some problems

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkId=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Provider failed to ensure restrictive measures addressed and
approved by the HCR. Provider is currently using an
unapproved restrictive strategy by using a baby monitor and a
motion sensor in the kitchen area to observe individuals out of
view of staff.
Both monitoring devices were removed from the kitchen
during the review

Some employees had criminal records, said to be from a long time ago.

Provider didn't do background checks on employees

They are a licensed facility

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkID=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Assume that means they can administer prescription drugs to patients

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov/provider_results.aspx?providerID=6006362

And the church is right nearby

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...sAF1QipPN-wmoYLruTVhe6w7suVvxP0a87qeOCm96Uoqx

Betty,

This one gives a little bit more info on who the incorporators are

https://www5.sos.state.oh.us/ords/f?p=100:7:::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:679928

Articles of Incorporation

http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/rwservlet?imgc12g&Din=F936_0204

ETA to show what the NCCS code means. NCCS code is listed as “P73”

http://nccs.urban.org/sites/all/ncc...returnElement=&popup=0&code=P73&codeType=NTEE

 

[molly1255]

Oh, and I've heard of some kind of church on the Wagner land. And my understanding is while in Alaska they are members of a church affiliated with their "religion" whatever their denomination is. Something is going on with all the Health Care facilities in Pike and surrounding counties, so many of them and so many people associated with them, who don't have medical backgrounds. The "church" that the Wagner's are involved in, kinda reminds me of a "cult" where they home school their children to keep them away from the public in order to isolate them and keep control of them and their "flock", All JMO.

I've thought the exact same thing with respect to their church.

 

[amauet1]

It could possibly been from her car sales. Most probably, from that small amount, it was because she didn't have enough withheld from her paycheck and ended up owing state tax when she did her taxes. A lot of people are in that boat since most states don't have as many or as big of credits as the federal returns do.




JMO

Thank you Raisin for answering my questions on money laundering and taxes! Really appreciate it :loveyou:

 

[Betty P]

Those of you who have watched the Netflix series "Ozark", might remember the episode where certain church members were handing out bibles to other church members before services. It turned out that those bibles were hollowed out and filled with drugs (heroin, I believe). They had a drug distribution ring going on.

Perhaps I've been on websleuths too much recently, and I've been also following the GSK case, and it is beyond chilling, but I just went to the website for the W's AK church and there was a link on that site to the OH church. The OH church has a ministry that publishes bibles.

My hair stood up on the back of my neck when I saw that. But it is impossible - right?

There's something hinky about the anonymous church on the W family property. My mind went to the same place - Ozark.

You have to admit, theoretically, a church could be a viable "front" for some kind of drug dealing. Maybe not direct participation in it, but using it to distract attention or suspicion from LE.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw293W5uqIJrtIg1J_Z6w-HS&ust=1525652863674471

It just strikes me as odd that the pastor became such a public face for JW's family after they skedaddled to Alaska. And they already had a church set up there that the younger generation of W's had visited.

 

[Betty P]

Betty,

This one gives a little bit more info on who the incorporators are

https://www5.sos.state.oh.us/ords/f?p=100:7:::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:679928

Articles of Incorporation

http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/rwservlet?imgc12g&Din=F936_0204

ETA to show what the NCCS code means. NCCS code is listed as “P73”

http://nccs.urban.org/sites/all/ncc...returnElement=&popup=0&code=P73&codeType=NTEE

Thanks so much for all your research. Interesting the last filing was 2015, but there was a compliance report for 2017, so it must still be in business.

It's required to file a Form 990 to the IRS, which I believe means it's a non-profit organization. This means it doesn't pay taxes.

 

[rsd1200]

An absolute documented fact is when Jake gave interviews (plural & every reporter could not have head him wrong!)
JW always stated the event as he picked up Sophie a day earlier.

It is not until the 2017 interview that AW gave the same event only she changed the dates the exchange took place on s different date. AW sounds like she runs the show and everyone in the Wagner family kowtows to her. I think AW was the trouble maker in the custody despute because she wanted JW to have sole custody.

This is my opinion only. I have not came to this conclusion lightly. Please feel free to disagree. But :bee: kind.



Here it is everyone the revisionist namely AW changing the date SW was picked up. It's obvious she wants to distant the Wagners from ground zero CS.

• [FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]​:cow:[/FONT]

Nice! I hope this is not against TOS. If it is, please feel free to flag me. I'm going to say, I have little doubt who wears the britches in that household. Did you ever visit AW's FB before she made it private? She's seems quite passive aggressive too, and, to me, unless it's was her husband posting, she feels she's doing the world a favor by giving an interview, or posting comments, or just breathing the same oxygen as us, but, at the end of the day, I don't think she's a drug lord, or a member of Mensa. Do I think that she'd leverage everything she had to get her boy's kid if she wanted her? I think she's a really spoiled, conniving, piece of work, and would pull out all stops, except when I get to murdering eight people. Threaten? Likely. TC isn't making a fuss at all. I guess she's been too focused on other things after last Easter... Also, I guess, I'm one of those who always hopes, that the child's father would not stoop to that. Not to mention, if he stooped to that, then it can mean that LE is not lying about the text, and if LM ends up being involved too, then my faith in humanity is destroyed just a little bit further. :maddening:

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Thanks so much for all your research. Interesting the last filing was 2015, but there was a compliance report for 2017, so it must still be in business.

It's required to file a Form 990 to the IRS, which I believe means it's a non-profit organization. This means it doesn't pay taxes.

I think from what I could tell (you can click and view each document filed) the renewal is good for 5 years. They’re up for renewal in 2020. I edited my post above to show the NCCS # and what that means as well. I do think it’s non profit...which makes me wonder even more.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

There's something hinky about the anonymous church on the W family property. My mind went to the same place - Ozark.

You have to admit, theoretically, a church could be a viable "front" for some kind of drug dealing. Maybe not direct participation in it, but using it to distract attention or suspicion from LE.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw293W5uqIJrtIg1J_Z6w-HS&ust=1525652863674471

It just strikes me as odd that the pastor became such a public face for JW's family after they skedaddled to Alaska. And they already had a church set up there that the younger generation of W's had visited.

If I wasn’t creeped out by all of this, I’d say I’m gonna take a short road trip and do some explorin’. But as time passes and more and more comes to light, I get more and more creeped out.

 

[amauet1]

Yeah, I understand all that. But we've focused on them and their immediate family members almost exclusively for the last 2 years, usually with the intention of trying to blame one of the surviving family members for the killings.

Maybe it's time to set the immediate family members aside from endless scrutiny and focus on others linked to the family. I've tried many times to research and take the focus to others that CR1 and KR may have come into contact with in their business dealings, but no one else wants to look in that direction. We've had strong hints from LE about looking at the Wagner family. It makes sense to look into their business dealings and see how they might have intersected with CR1 and others they may have been dealing with.

I'm tired of years and years of discussing in minute detail the same details about the Manley family, who might have called who that night, etc. I prefer to look at the big picture. These were murders committed by experienced people, possibly professionals (as many experts have said). The victims had allegedly had 3 grow ops in the midst of one of the most legendary and renowned areas for MJ growing in Ohio, bordering on another state (KY) legendary for it's decades of MJ cultivation and trafficking. These murders were in the midst of one of the heaviest drug trafficking areas in Ohio, renowned for 50+ years of public corruption and vice.

We've sleuthed the immediate family in great detail. It's time to look at the bigger picture.

But here's the thing Betty. The LE/BCI have told us it's not drugs. I'ts bigger than that. First there were 4 grow ops. Huge, then it went to 3 grow ops at just 2 places. CRsr's and KR's. Now they say the W's are their focus, but not suspect's. Which part of the inconcistancies are we supposed to believe? Today's or yesterday's. I know your tired of going over the same thing, I get that way to. But we have new members and some old members trying to catch up. Their question's. deductions and opinions are just as important as ours. You can't say hey, let's stop talking about what I don't like or I'm tired of, just because you are. This is an open forum and the mods decide what we can or cannot talk about. Sorry.