OH - Samuel Dubose, 43, killed by Cincinnati LE during traffic stop, 19 July 2015

[BritsKate]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...came-building-saying-wife-going-kill-him.html

This happens to White people as well as minorities. It is an abuse of power, has nothing to do with racism IMO. When it happens to a White person it never gets the same play in the news but that does not mean it does not happen. The biggest problem IMO is that police are over reacting in some cases because they do want to make it home. A White policemen was just shot and killed during a routine traffic stop yesterday in Tenn , that has not made news except locally. If the officers who killed Mr.Hutcheson turn out to be Black , as well as the murderer of the Tn officer would that be considered racism ?

BBM

That's made the news even my side of the pond.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...affic-stop-in-memphis-tennessee-10433006.html

 

[cady]

I think that racism is a most unfortunate byproduct of the primal need of *advertiser censored* sapiens, specifically, to assess and discriminate for self-preservation. We all do that every day, but Racism, itself, is irrational fear and it is culturally taught and learned and mighty difficult to undo because the color of a persons skin is enough to cause the (learned) fear response. Hate IS fear, JMO.

 

[cady]

The traffic stop was initiated on the campus, which is 90% white by a racist cop who stopped and ticketed 81% black drivers, despite the fact that only 8.3% of the students are black.



Police describe struggle that led UC officer to shoot, kill man

Thanks. By "initiate" do they mean RT's lights were flashing to stop SD for some distance? JMO

 

[Constance]

This is a quote from a very good article addressing the subject:



I've seen this happen in a lot of threads here. Just look what people have said in this one. A man was murdered, point blank, for no reason that could possibly be justified, but people are eager to point fingers at Samuel, as if somehow he asked for it. We can take race out of the equation when the numbers aren't so obviously tilted in favor of white people.

This is another quote from the article. I'm using it because he says it much better than I could:



Addressing racism in America is a large issue and discussing it is not squabbling. This isn't a trivial issue and to use that word is, imo, insulting and dismissive.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-metta/i-racist_b_7770652.html

Thank you for the interesting link. I fully understand and appreciate your point of view and agree with what you say about how Mr. Dubose's character is being attacked here and elsewhere. It's maddening, really. I think you and I are coming from the same place, just looking at it differently.

The very things you refer to are the same reasons the racial aspect being amplified in police brutality cases bothers me so badly; it gives too many Americans of other races the feeling of, "Oh, it was one of them, not one of us, so...it will never happen to me or mine/they probably deserved it/I won't think too much about it."

Many people have ingrained prejudices about "others", be they about race or class or religion or whatever. Yes, this is wrong and ignorant. But it is absolutely 100% real. If we as one people, the American people, are going to see a positive change, we're going to have to stand together as one, not "them" over there and "us" over here. JMO.

I never intended to be insulting or dismissive, but rather to lend just a small bit of something to the whole discussion. I suffer from extreme empathy, and it hurts to see any other human being suffer. I feel helpless watching this situation unfold. The best I can do from my position is to offer my thoughts. I'm sorry that my clumsy attempt to bring some of what I see as basic common sense and human decency to the conversation offended you.

IMO we'll never see change as long as we continue to see each other as "others" (which attitude BTW doesn't really exist in my circles, perhaps because I'm an adult female, but is a reference to what I have read in regards to this case and others like it).

I think this somewhat dated quote from the man with a plan, "Killer" Mike, still sums up America pretty well, if you change out "Bush" for "cops" or "the system"...


"The comment Kanye made was damn near right, but Bush hate poor people, be 'em black or white." - "Killer" Mike

JMO

 

[mikeysmommom]

The reality of the situation was the officer was correct, he did have quite a lot of drugs in his car as well as driving while suspended. Maybe the officer could smell the 10,000 dollars worth of pot. IF the shooting had not happened the officer would have gotten a slap on the back for a good bust .

 

[Goose22]

Did we get that article about the marijuana yet?

I'm worried we're spreading false information.

 

[mikeysmommom]

The officer might have known he was suspended , he could have run his back plate before he got out of his car. I would think if they have body cams they also have plate readers. I think the officer wanted to see if he answered truthfully. IMO.

 

[i.b.nora]

At the WCPO.com link offered previously, both of the bystander videos are interesting to me. On the first bystander video at 1:48 (and a little before) you can see Officer Tensing strolling along with his Cincinnati Police overseer to retrieve his personal belongings (I think his phone and his water bottle) from his car. Tensing's own camera portryed the same thing. If I were the prosecution, I would want to collect a copy of both of these videos.

The second video is interesting also. Its just as well, I suppose, that Sam was likely killed instantly since the ambulance people were completely blocked out of the actual area where Sam's car ended up. Had he still been alive, I would say precious time would have been lost in getting to him.

Of primary interest to me at the moment, and something I have been exploring for the last few days is how the topography works in the area of the shooting. Uphill, downhill, twists, turns, etc. These two videos help to describe that for me.

Others might observe other things as well.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/mount-auburn-shooting

 

[cady]

The officer might have known he was suspended , he could have run his back plate before he got out of his car. I would think if they have body cams they also have plate readers. I think the officer wanted to see if he answered truthfully. IMO.

Reportedly, from the incident reports, RT noticed that the front tag was missing on West McMillan, at which point he ran the tag number while he was following SD turning on Vine St and then turning on Thill St, which becomes Rice St, where he stopped SD when he got the plate report. The plates came back to a female. He did not know who SD was. He may or may not have really been on West McMillan, but that is what was reported. JMO

 

[cady]

I looked at google streets for Rice st. To me, it obviously slopes at a good grade down to Valencia. JMO add You can take a virtual drive from West McMillan, down Vine, to Thill and continue to Rice and stop at the corner of Rice and Valencia, where the car came to rest. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Thank you for the interesting link. I fully understand and appreciate your point of view and agree with what you say about how Mr. Dubose's character is being attacked here and elsewhere. It's maddening, really. I think you and I are coming from the same place, just looking at it differently.

The very things you refer to are the same reasons the racial aspect being amplified in police brutality cases bothers me so badly; it gives too many Americans of other races the feeling of, "Oh, it was one of them, not one of us, so...it will never happen to me or mine/they probably deserved it/I won't think too much about it."

Many people have ingrained prejudices about "others", be they about race or class or religion or whatever. Yes, this is wrong and ignorant. But it is absolutely 100% real. If we as one people, the American people, are going to see a positive change, we're going to have to stand together as one, not "them" over there and "us" over here. JMO.

I never intended to be insulting or dismissive, but rather to lend just a small bit of something to the whole discussion. I suffer from extreme empathy, and it hurts to see any other human being suffer. I feel helpless watching this situation unfold. The best I can do from my position is to offer my thoughts. I'm sorry that my clumsy attempt to bring some of what I see as basic common sense and human decency to the conversation offended you.

IMO we'll never see change as long as we continue to see each other as "others" (which attitude BTW doesn't really exist in my circles, perhaps because I'm an adult female, but is a reference to what I have read in regards to this case and others like it).

I think this somewhat dated quote from the man with a plan, "Killer" Mike, still sums up America pretty well, if you change out "Bush" for "cops" or "the system"...


"The comment Kanye made was damn near right, but Bush hate poor people, be 'em black or white." - "Killer" Mike

JMO

Imo when white people understand and express the idea "He was one of us" or "It could have happened to me" we can take race out of the discussion, and it shouldn't be, imo, up to black people to help them figure it out.

 

[Betty P]

The reality of the situation was the officer was correct, he did have quite a lot of drugs in his car as well as driving while suspended. Maybe the officer could smell the 10,000 dollars worth of pot. IF the shooting had not happened the officer would have gotten a slap on the back for a good bust .

There's no evidence, no media report I can find stating that Samuel had drugs in his car. He was unarmed, with no history of violent behavior. Most of his prior offenses were for driving with an expired license.

There was no justification for shooting this man, none at all.
Even if he had drugs in his car, it's no justification for shooting him. None at all.

Failing to render first aid to these shooting victims seems to be common for bad cops.

 

[jjenny]

There's no evidence, no media report I can find stating that Samuel had drugs in his car. He was unarmed, with no history of violent behavior. Most of his prior offenses were for driving with an expired license.

There was no justification for shooting this man, none at all.
Even if he had drugs in his car, it's no justification for shooting him. None at all.

Failing to render first aid to these shooting victims seems to be common for bad cops.

"He said DuBose had marijuana in the car and about $2,600 cash. "He might have had marijuana, but you don't deserve to be executed for something like that," Deters said."
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/07/29/publish/30830777/

 

[nothingnew]

The traffic stop was initiated on the campus, which is 90% white by a racist cop who stopped and ticketed 81% black drivers, despite the fact that only 8.3% of the students are black.



Police describe struggle that led UC officer to shoot, kill man

Was Samuel a student there, do we know? I didn't catch that earlier that he was on campus when everything started.

 

[jjenny]

Was Samuel a student there, do we know? I didn't catch that earlier that he was on campus when everything started.

Nothing was reported about him being a student, so it's a safe bet that he wasn't.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

In my opinion:

Being uncooperative with a doctor doesn't give them the right to overdose you to death.

Being rude to a waiter doesn't excuse their poisoning your food so that you die.

Being a jerk to the electric guy doesn't give him the right to electrocute you to death.

Being mean to the paper boy doesn't mean he can throw moltov cocktails at your house and burn you to death.

Being short with a bus driver doesn't excuse their throwing you off the bus and running you over until you die.

Backtalking a teacher doesn't mean they can stab you to death with a pencil.

No one's going to say, "If only you'd been nicer!" And no one should be saying it in this case, IMO.

I really think this case is pretty cut and dried. What's up with the perp-cop, Former University of Cincinnati Police Officer Ray Tensing, who shot Mr. Dubose? What sort of background does he have? Was this a crime that just happened to happen while the perp had official, legal advantage over the victim? Could this murder be less about policing and more about killing? Who is this guy?

I agree so much with your post.

 

[CoolJ]

The officer might have known he was suspended , he could have run his back plate before he got out of his car. I would think if they have body cams they also have plate readers. I think the officer wanted to see if he answered truthfully. IMO.

I think he knew who SD was before he even saw a plate. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

I think he knew who SD was before he even saw a plate. JMO

Which could make it premeditated murder. Interesting idea.

 

[nothingnew]

I think he knew who SD was before he even saw a plate. JMO

As in they had interacted in the past OR SD was a "regular" over the scanner? I live in a small town & there's some people that the scanner is how you know them and their life story. Just wondering.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I think he knew who SD was before he even saw a plate. JMO

He might have known him , he might have ran his name to see if his license was good and also if he had any warrants out, since he had a record he might have been know to the officer.