Found Deceased OH - Sierah Joughin, 20, Fulton County, 19 July 2016 #7 *Arrest*

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Everyday Grace said:
Yes, expected, and part of the normal process.

At present, he is only charged under a criminal complaint.

Grand jury indictments are required in Ohio for felony charges.

The prosecutor will present evidence against Worley. If the grand jury determines there is probable cause to charge him, they will issue an indictment for each felony charge.

I think it is reasonable to expect indictments for murder and kidnapping charges. Possible there could be other charges if the prosecutor presents evidence as such.

Worley will not be present, nor will his attorney.

Grand jury proceedings are conducted in secret. The public is not permitted to be present.

More:

https://www.ohiobar.org/forpublic/resources/lawyoucanuse/pages/lawyoucanuse-86.aspx
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Will evidence be presented as it pertains only to Sierah Joughin's case?? Or will they present evidence that he's a serial killer? How will other crimes he's responsible for be solved if come into play??
 
ChiefsGranddaughter said:
Yes, what is all that new looking stuff? If he made less than $1000 last year, who's been doing all the shopping?

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I've been wondering about the $1000 income. My guess is he did odd jobs and didn't claim it. And/Or was living off of his mother's social security.
JMO
 
krig101 said:
I've been wondering about the $1000 income. My guess is he did odd jobs and didn't claim it. And/Or was living off of his mother's social security.
JMO
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I've done bookkeeping for small businesses and often, after all eligible deductible expenses, there is not much income for tax purposes when if you look at gross income (before deductions) they made a decent amount.


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keeleydoll said:
I've done bookkeeping for small businesses and often, after all eligible deductible expenses, there is not much income for tax purposes when if you look at gross income (before deductions) they made a decent amount.


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I totally agree.
Ive seen that first hand myself.
I think in this case he mainly lived off of him mom because his sick hobby took too much of his time to work.
Unless he was profiting online from his disgusting habit. I don't think I want to know what us on the cameras that were confiscated.
 
Are Grand Juries secret in Ohio?
 
krig101 said:
I totally agree.
Ive seen that first hand myself.
I think in this case he mainly lived off of him mom because his sick hobby took too much of his time to work.
Unless he was profiting online from his disgusting habit. I don't think I want to know what us on the cameras that were confiscated.
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Yes and if there were two people on the property pulling social security, disability, possibly pension from deceased stepdad, food stamps, etc. and he was the designated "care giver" and likely the only driver, he would basically have control of those funds. I have personally dealt with a family member taking advantage of such a situation.


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SJCaseFollower said:
Will evidence be presented as it pertains only to Sierah Joughin's case?? Or will they present evidence that he's a serial killer? How will other crimes he's responsible for be solved if come into play??
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Hard to know for sure, but most likely only evidence of crimes committed against Sierah in Fulton County.

Unless they have evidence of any other specific crimes committed in Fulton County against other persons.

In that case, they could conceivably seek additional charges that are not specifically related to the crimes committed against Sierah.

I don't know if that is a desired outcome at this point in time, IMO, unless they do have solid evidence of crimes against other persons in Fulton County.

Better to focus on convicting him for Sierah than to shoot too broad and spread the prosecution resources too thin.

They can always proceed against him with other crimes at a later date if they believe they have sufficient evidence.

The Fulton County grand jury has jurisdiction only over crimes committed in the county.

Some leeway exists as to what they can say and present to a grand jury as opposed to what would pass muster in a trial courtroom.

IANAL, so I am unsure, but they might be able to work in that some of the evidence found in his possession suggests that there may be other victims.

That shouldn't be necessary to get indictments for murder and kidnapping, as far as I can tell from what is revealed in the search warrant affidavits.

Proving probable cause to indict him for the crimes committed against Sierah should not be difficult.

Solving any other crimes he may have committed falls to law enforcement. BCI is in a position, as is the FBI, to work as a central coordinator if the crimes occurred in multiple jurisdictions.

If they feel strongly that he is in fact a multi-jurisdictional serial killer, I suspect that they have already (or are in the process of) forming formal and/or informal investigative groups to focus on gathering and assembling the evidence.

Any future prosecutions would take place in the jurisdictions where the crimes occurred. Sometimes that resides in the county where a body is found when it cannot be determined where a person was kidnapped and/or murdered.
 
Knox said:
Are Grand Juries secret in Ohio?
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Yes, they are conducted in secret, but witnesses are free to disclose their testimony and anything else from when they were present.

The Ohio Bar does not say that the grand jurors themselves are free to discuss what they heard or saw, so my default presumption is that they are not.

That is only my presumption; it is also my experience in my home state.

https://www.ohiobar.org/forpublic/resources/lawyoucanuse/pages/lawyoucanuse-86.aspx
 
I served as foreman on a grand jury in Lucas county several years back. We were not allowed to discuss the cases outside of the courtroom. If my memory serves me correctly, I signed an affadavit (not sure if this is the correct term) that I would not talk publicly about the cases I was hearing. IANAL either, but from my own experience, only charges that fell under the jurisdiction the court was serving were able to be taken in front of us.

Additional charges could absolutely come from this grand jury hearing. Keep in mind, this specific hearing is not to "prove beyond a reasonable doubt", but rather to determine if the grand jury feels that the evidence presented by the prosecution, per charge, will be enough to carry the case forward to the petit jury. Essentially, the grand jury will determine if they feel there is enough evidence to gain a conviction against the charges that were brought against him in a court of law.

When I served, in some cases witness were brought in if necessary, and the prosecutor was there as well. In several of the cases I heared, the "witness" was the police officer that was on scene, not necessarily a witness to the crime. My guess from what I've seen so far is that the F.C. Sherrif(s) may be the witnesses present to testify in front of the grand jury as to the evidence that was collected against El Diablo, as nobody saw this happen (that we know of). The grand jury will see the evidence against El Diablo for any charges that he is considered for by the prosecutor. I expect additional charges to come from this grand jury hearing, but that's just my personal opinion.
 
How long does a Grand Jury meet? Since the defense is not present the state can present without objections...so would a week be an average lenght of time? How soon after the jury decides on all the factors, will the public know?

Thanks
 
jashrema said:
We know the passport is expired and did we know for a fact that it was never used? I seem to think that we do know that. It was unused. That's why I feel something major happened around that time for him since you will never convince me that El Diablo was the type of guy to even THINK about getting a passport. What in the he**for??
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Why would JDW need a passport? JDW thought he was "saavy", maybe the passport was his backup plan if LE starts looking for him. (He probably saw it on a TV show) JDW probably wasn't a geography buff, but he did know that one needs a passport to leave the US. A passport would serve as a "security" for him even if he never planned to use it. IMO Reminds me of the quote from Dog Day Afternoon, where Sonny says "What country do you want to go to?" The other guy says, "Wyoming."

Thoughts on JDW mental health or "How did he get to be this way?"
1] Seems like there is a genetic component;
2] I'm going to speculate that smoking weed was not to get "high" but self medicating, i.e., helping himself to feel "ok";
3] There had to have been trauma in his early childhood; abuse, domestic violence or other forms of trauma can affect brain development. Trauma can change the chemical activity of the brain, (cause the brain to be smaller) as well as lead to impairments and learning disabilities. JDW's brain was "toxic." IMO
 
MsJosie said:
How long does a Grand Jury meet? Since the defense is not present the state can present without objections...so would a week be an average lenght of time? How soon after the jury decides on all the factors, will the public know?

Thanks
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If the grand jury certifies charges, then we'll hear about it. In most states, the grand jury isn't hearing about just one case, but many, and deciding if the state has enough evidence to go to trial. Remember the saying about the grand jury indicting a ham sandwich? It doesn't mean someone is guilty, only that the grand jury feels there's enough information for a court to have a trial and that jury will then determine if someone is guilty or not.

It's interesting that I only know of one person ever called to be on the grand jury. My father was summoned, and despite all his medical issues, he still had to serve (I think Dad wanted to serve to be honest!). For several months there was days the court had given him, and he would have to call each morning to see if they needed to meet or not. He never actually had to go hear any cases. Each time he called, there was no court for them that day. I think it was for 3 months though.
 
I have on idea what JW's mental capacity is, or how he thinks. I'm just making a statement about passports.

My great aunt lives with me. She's always had a child like mentality. She took a month off from work to go on a trip to Alaska. Didn't pay any bills for the months leading to the trip or the month of the trip or the month after...but...she loved going on bus trips. She had a passport for that trip as they went through Canada. She's now legally blind, very bad mental and physical health, and can no longer travel. She got very upset with me for not renewing her passport, even though it will never be used again, and was only used once for that trip! That passport though to HER was 'upping herself' above her siblings who didn't have one. Sounds silly and is silly. Yet to HER it made perfect sense that it made her more important, a step above, etc.

The only other thing I can think of with JW, is it possible he thought he could go to Canada for meds? I don't know if possible. Just have heard you can order prescription meds cheaper if they come from Canada, but have no idea if true, or not. Yes I think he could have had it because he felt he might need to flee ASAP as well. But I don't see him leaving his Mom. I'm sure he never expected her to live so long either! Maybe he felt she would be dead by now, and he could go wherever he wanted.

I have no idea how much assistance if any his mother or brother require. I can say that caregiver fatigue is real!!!
 
HearMeRoar said:
Why would JDW need a passport? JDW thought he was "saavy", maybe the passport was his backup plan if LE starts looking for him. (He probably saw it on a TV show) JDW probably wasn't a geography buff, but he did know that one needs a passport to leave the US. A passport would serve as a "security" for him even if he never planned to use it. IMO Reminds me of the quote from Dog Day Afternoon, where Sonny says "What country do you want to go to?" The other guy says, "Wyoming."

Thoughts on JDW mental health or "How did he get to be this way?"
1] Seems like there is a genetic component;
2] I'm going to speculate that smoking weed was not to get "high" but self medicating, i.e., helping himself to feel "ok";
3] There had to have been trauma in his early childhood; abuse, domestic violence or other forms of trauma can affect brain development. Trauma can change the chemical activity of the brain, (cause the brain to be smaller) as well as lead to impairments and learning disabilities. JDW's brain was "toxic." IMO
Click to expand...

That's a lot of assumptions. What are you basing them off of?
 
I just wanted to say thanks to all the members offering great information and insight and experiences with how the grand jury proceedings work and all the basics of "justice 101" crash course you've provided to people like me who have nearly zilch knowledge on that aspect ! THANK YOU !!!
 
snowblossom2 said:
That's a lot of assumptions. What are you basing them off of?
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Thoughts on JDW mental health or "How did he get to be this way?"
1] Seems like there is a genetic component;
2] I'm going to speculate that smoking weed was not to get "high" but self medicating, i.e., helping himself to feel "ok";
3] There had to have been trauma in his early childhood; abuse, domestic violence or other forms of trauma can affect brain development. Trauma can change the chemical activity of the brain, (cause the brain to be smaller) as well as lead to impairments and learning disabilities. JDW's brain was "toxic." IMO

Good Question. Regarding 1] We can't discuss "family members" but from what I've read, at least one other family member has displayed problem behaviors. Research shows that there are patterns that run in familys/ generations. Mental health diagnoses, addiction, domestic violence etc. So, if one family member has a diagnosis, chances are it's somewhere else in the family. That's a fact- not an opionion. When I say "seems like" there's a genetic component, I'm expressing my own thoughts, or, IMO.
Regarding 2] IMO Speculation. But I've worked in MH and drug and alcohol addiction for 20 years. Marijuana is so often used for self-medication when regular meds aren't prescribed or if one doesn't like the side effects. Self medication is so often used for depression and anxiety. Sometimes it's used to get "high." But lots of folks use it to "feel better" (or self medicate.) I think unless someone goes into recovery, they may not even realize they are self medicating. Not just marijuana. . . alcohol is often used to self medicate and it's more socially acceptable (and legal)to drink.
Re. 3] Trauma informed Care says that "Trauma is a near universal experience of individuals with behavioral health problems." http://www.thenationalcouncil.org/areas-of-expertise/trauma-informed-behavioral-healthcare/
An intervention I learned from the Sanctuary Model is this: to understand others (as well as ourselves) is to reframe the question "What's wrong with you?" . . . to "What happened to you?"
 
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