Ohio: East Palestine Train Derailment, Risk of Explosion


TBH, minor derailments happen every day. They don't usually make the news because they're not serious, no one is hurt and the public isn't usually affected. But since a big one has made the news, everyone will be paying attention.

Derailments involving HazMat are always worth paying attention to. Cars that carry hazardous materials, like tankers and covered hoppers, are designed specifically for the freight they carry. They're usually owned by the customers themselves or by a company that leases them to the shippers. They're the result of decades of testing and are designed to stay intact in all but the worst accidents. They are fairly rare, considering how much HazMat freight moves around every day. NTSB is investigating and we'll eventually have some idea of what caused this accident.
 
BBM
I question why that hasn't already been done.
Governor DeWine gave an odd response the other day, saying something like FEMA won't help. Not sure what's going on with that. Maybe Sen. Sherrod Brown can get it done.


Here's another article about it. DeWine claims FEMA told him they can't help, but he hasn't asked the POTUS to declare it a disaster area. Sen. Brown sent DeWine a letter asking him to ask the POTUS to declare it a disaster area. A formality, but a legal one. DeWine should know that, he was a US Senator for many years.


"Additional federal resources can and should play a critical role in helping our fellow Ohioans get back on their feet and ensure that their community is a safe place to live, work, and raise a family,” Brown wrote.

DeWine responded to Brown in a press release, saying he would continue to work with FEMA to figure out what assistance can be provided.

They'll get federal assistance, all they have to do is ask. The governor should make sure everyone affected and who needs help gets it, bar none. JMO I can't believe DeWine had the Ohio National Guard arresting reporters when this first happened. JMO

ETA: In the news report in the second link, the reporter says he talked to Ohio's junior senator, JD Vance, who said he didn't think the people in East Palestine needed help from FEMA. He just said their water should be tested and declared safe and let Norfolk Southern take care of the rest.
 
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RSBM


They'll get federal assistance, all they have to do is ask. The governor should make sure everyone affected and who needs help gets it, bar none. JMO I can't believe DeWine had the Ohio National Guard arresting reporters when this first happened. JMO
It was 1 reporter, and he was arrested for trespassing after being told to leave the building, not for just reporting. DeWine has spoken out multiple times against the arrest, it's not like he sent his goons out to tackle anyone trying to report on the situation.

FWIW, I think the National Guard + EP Ciry Police + Columbiana County Sheriff's Department seriously overstepped here, and the charges were rightly dismissed. BUT. There is enough of a disaster here without adding in a despotic governor, livestock dying in droves, intentional railway sabotage, birds dying 6 hours away, etc (all things I've read this week on the internet). MOO.
 
FEB 16, 2023

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) has denied assistance as Gov. Mike DeWine seeks federal help for the residents of East Palestine, according to a release from his office.

According to the release, DeWine spoke with White House officials early on Thursday morning to request additional help .....

DeWine also requested assistance from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the Health and Emergency Response Team and the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Ohio train derailment: Secretary Buttigieg a no-show so far

“The DeWine Administration has been in daily contact with FEMA to discuss the need for federal support,” the release stated. "Governor DeWine will continue working with FEMA to determine what assistance can be provided.”

“However FEMA continues to tell Governor DeWine that Ohio is not eligible for assistance at this time.

Dan Tierney, a spokesperson for DeWine, told Fox News Digital, that FEMA didn’t believe the incident qualified as a traditional disaster.
 
I have been on a train when it had an accident, train accidents are pretty common, scary! There was a huge train accident where I live about 30 years ago, believe it or not, the land there was bare for decades!

There was a terrible train wreck near Dunsmuir CA that sickened some of the residents. I had lived there before and knew people who were living there at the time of the accident.


July 14, 1991, was supposed to be a routine, normal evening for Southern Pacific railroad operators traversing Siskiyou County’s bucolic forests near Dunsmuir, California.

They were transporting nearly 20,000 gallons of metam sodium, an agricultural pesticide commonly used to kill fungus, nematodes and weeds. But in the dead of night, as the freight train approached the Cantara Loop — a bend that snakes along the 447-mile-long Sacramento River waterway — it suddenly jumped the tracks, leading to one of the worst ecological disasters in the state’s history.

A chemical tank car crashed into the water, dragging multiple other train cars along with it, a 2007 report from the Cantara Trustee Council (CTC) found. By the time California Department of Fish and Wildlife wardens made it to the wreckage, they realized, to their horror, that 19,000 gallons of potent herbicides had been unleashed into the pristine waterway.

For the next 12 days, California Department of Water Resources and Southern Pacific workers diluted the pesticides, but it was already too late: More than a million fish and tens of thousands of amphibians and crayfish were killed, along with “millions of aquatic invertebrates, including insects and mollusks, which form the basis of the river’s ecosystem.”

“The rocks were clean. There was no moss. There was no life in the river,” former Dunsmuir resident Kristi Osborn told the state Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC).

Following the spill, people living in the area developed an alarming array of symptoms like rashes, diarrhea and chest tightness, a 2004 report from the California Environmental Protection Agency said. Sick and scared, Dunsmuir residents stayed inside and shut their windows, unsure of what to do amid the chaos.
 
There was a terrible train wreck near Dunsmuir CA that sickened some of the residents. I had lived there before and knew people who were living there at the time of the accident.


July 14, 1991, was supposed to be a routine, normal evening for Southern Pacific railroad operators traversing Siskiyou County’s bucolic forests near Dunsmuir, California.

They were transporting nearly 20,000 gallons of metam sodium, an agricultural pesticide commonly used to kill fungus, nematodes and weeds. But in the dead of night, as the freight train approached the Cantara Loop — a bend that snakes along the 447-mile-long Sacramento River waterway — it suddenly jumped the tracks, leading to one of the worst ecological disasters in the state’s history.

A chemical tank car crashed into the water, dragging multiple other train cars along with it, a 2007 report from the Cantara Trustee Council (CTC) found. By the time California Department of Fish and Wildlife wardens made it to the wreckage, they realized, to their horror, that 19,000 gallons of potent herbicides had been unleashed into the pristine waterway.

Yeah, I ride my bike over where the train wreck was, seriously, there is grass, weeds, wildflowers, then, for a long stretch, dirt, and maybe a few scraggly weeds here and there. And back to wildflowers and grass. You can practically see a complete concentric circle of space where the wreck happened...because the dirt is different, lighter. I don't think anyone has studied the area. It is owned by the railroad, with a bike path.
 
I have been on a train when it had an accident, train accidents are pretty common, scary! There was a huge train accident where I live about 30 years ago, believe it or not, the land there was bare for decades!
Interesting what the hazardous materials were that caused the explosion in this Montana train wreck... Isopropyl alcohol and H2O2.

The explosion was later determined to have been caused by a tanker carrying isopropyl alcohol, which caught fire[6] and caused an explosion in another nearby car containing hydrogen peroxide.[4] This was deemed a hazardous materials release.

I have to say, I‘ve developed a new and greater appreciation for the phrase ”it’s a train wreck”.
 
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EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (WKBN) — On Thursday, First News learned more about the effort to remove toxic chemicals from air, water and soil in and around East Palestine.

Gov. Mike DeWine’s office put out a press release updating the public about the efforts to clean up East Palestine. Politicians from both sides of the aisle made their way to the Village today. They said they want Norfolk Southern to be held responsible and foot the bill for clean-up.

US, state officials speak on East Palestine environmental safety concerns

One million gallons of contaminated liquid and 3150 cubic yards of contaminated soil have been removed from the crash site according to Gov. Mike DeWine’s office, but it’s still unclear how much more will need to be removed.

Sen. JD Vance addressed claims that new rail and track were installed on top of contaminated soil.

“I think [that] suggests they’re much more focused on reopening the railway than on cleaning up this community … That’s a big big problem,” Vance said.
 

COLUMBIANA CO., Ohio (WKBN) – U.S. Congressman Rep. Bill Johnson released a statement after reimbursements and other costs for the train derailment have been expanded.

Norfolk Southern’s CEO said it is expanding the geographic area eligible for reimbursements and other costs related to the train derailment to all East Palestine residents in the 44413 zip code.
 
It was 1 reporter, and he was arrested for trespassing after being told to leave the building, not for just reporting. DeWine has spoken out multiple times against the arrest, it's not like he sent his goons out to tackle anyone trying to report on the situation.

FWIW, I think the National Guard + EP Ciry Police + Columbiana County Sheriff's Department seriously overstepped here, and the charges were rightly dismissed. BUT. There is enough of a disaster here without adding in a despotic governor, livestock dying in droves, intentional railway sabotage, birds dying 6 hours away, etc (all things I've read this week on the internet). MOO.
Hadn't read anything about intentional railroad sabotage. What have you read about it? We have seen news coveerage and photos of dying livestock. Not about birds dying 6 hours away.

From what I've read so far, I don't like the changes made to length of trains with small crews, especially when hazardous loads are in the train consist.

As for the reporter who was arrested, it doesn't sound like he was trespassing or doing anything inappropriate. As for the Ohio National Guard, well, there was May 4. Sounds like their culture hasn't changed. JMO.
 

Link to one of the class action lawsuits that have been filed. I've found a couple of inaccuracies, one being ownership of the tank cars. The photo in the lawsuit filing shows burned tank cars marked with SHPX, Shippers Car Line, which is owned by American Railcar Leasing and UTLX (Union Tank Car)UTLX | The Tank Car People, not Norfolk Southern. Tank and Hopper Railcar Leasing Company: SMBC Rail Services, LLC

The cause of the accident has yet to be determined as NTSB investigates, though some suspect it was due to a "hot box" - overheated axle bearing journal box. See link above.
Hot box - Wikipedia.

Video of a train showing smoke from an overheated journal box

 
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Today's Democracy Now had interview with researcher about this situation.

Good interview and accurate. The long trains they're running now aren't safe. JMO, with older, shorter trains, it took a mile or so to stop in an emergency. You can imagine how long it takes to stop one for a hot box alarm, if that was the cause of this crash.

I'm not sure about what they refer to as a "ricochet effect" in braking. There's both an engine brake and a train air-braking system. There's always "slack" in any train as it picks up speed or brakes. Cars don't actually bump into each other, the coupling systems between them absorb the slack. That can be managed by a good engineer in trains of regular length, but is likely more difficult in these longer trains. JMO, unless the long trains have the newer braking systems, they should not be moving any Hazmat loads.
 
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Good interview and accurate. The long trains they're running now aren't safe. JMO, with older, shorter trains, it took a mile or so to stop in an emergency. You can imagine how long it takes to stop one for a hot box alarm, if that was the cause of this crash.

I'm not sure about what they refer to as a "ricochet effect" in braking. There's both an engine brake and a train air-braking system. There's always "slack" in any train as it picks up speed or brakes. Cars don't actually bump into each other, the coupling systems between them absorb the slack. That can be managed by a good engineer in trains of regular length, but is likely more difficult in these longer trains. JMO, unless the long trains have the newer braking systems, they should not be moving any Hazmat loads.
Democracy Now is a highly biased news source.
 
In a statement to NewsNation, Norfolk Southern said the forms were “access agreements” so air quality testing teams could be allowed on the property. The company acknowledged that a batch of agreements contained improper language referencing indemnification.

“Those incorrect forms were immediately pulled when the problem was discovered,” Norfolk Southern said. “No one in the community has waived their legal rights against Norfolk Southern through this program or any interaction with us thus far.”

 
In a statement to NewsNation, Norfolk Southern said the forms were “access agreements” so air quality testing teams could be allowed on the property. The company acknowledged that a batch of agreements contained improper language referencing indemnification.

“Those incorrect forms were immediately pulled when the problem was discovered,” Norfolk Southern said. “No one in the community has waived their legal rights against Norfolk Southern through this program or any interaction with us thus far.”

Sorry, but that sounds like complete bull, the part about the "inaccurate forms"...I suppose those clauses just miraculously found their way into those documents. Maybe these people won't read what they're signing...
 

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