OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michele Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977 #2

[beubeubeu]

Victim(s) as in plural , multiple more than 1 victim, child or not .

Yes, victim coul be man, woman, child, anyone.
But probability seems much different while talking about one perpetrator controlling three victims (quite hard to do) and like in this case: one person being able to control one little girl while carrying two more small, unconscious or already dead children in sleeping bags after ambushing them in tent (hard but quite possible).

The offender has no idea who may be around that site there cold be counselors or yes other people to alert the counselors of someone carrying (as you seem to be asserting) a child or children across the campground .

Thats risk, its high risk , the danger there is being discovered

Of course, if offender saw that area just once or twice, if he has no idea where and when he could meet someone and be detected that's high risk.

But if he's local, like GLH or someone like him... that risk may be not that high.
If he grew up around there, he may knew that area well. He may and most likely heard many stories from people who maybe worked there (directly from them or just passed by as a story by someone who heard something from them), more than likely had some acquaintances with daughters who shared their stories, just through regular gossiping.

He could walk around there in late autumn, winter, spring almost freely, learn all the paths, buildings, arrangement of tents, everything.
As far as I know it wasn't guarded well while not in use.

Local guy would know the weather, would know circumstances of nightly darkness around there. He (perp) for sure knew which houses around are empty and safe to burglarize.

At that fatal night he hang up in that darkness and could watch and track counsellors, learn where they are and from where they might come. He could quite safely assume that if anyone will be coming by, their flashlights will announce their presence at least a moment before they will be able to notice him.
It's not impossible task for someone comfortable with these "pitch dark" nights around there and the general area.

Adults and older teen counsellors at camp weren't at high alert, watching surroundings, expecting some possible attack coming from the night. It's not that hard to hide from people who are just camping and going through the night. In my opinion is doable.

I did it many times as a teen, sneaking out from camps at night, and sneaking out back in undetected. Few times people catched me for a moment with lights from their flashlights and still didn't noticed me.
Of course I was supposed to be there, so risk wasn't that high for me even if somebody would see me, but I'm also not a killer, so... I'm just guessing.

I'm just trying to say (and sorry for my poor English) that it might not be that risky and challenging as it seem to be, if the perp felt comfortable in that area.

But, having said that and judging just by my experience, I would never use a flashlight while hiding in the woods and trying to sneak back or out the camp alone. I would, going with someone who doesn't know area that well or can't rely mostly on hearing and memory.

Back to the case, adding all publicly available details I would say that's at least two people job, and that at least one from these people wasn't up for the plan the other one/s had. Like one was on rape-killing spree and other one thought that they are up for kidnapping and panicked while seeing what the first one did, tried to clean up and said at some point that he's out of it.
If there was a community where GLH was passing by as such an outstanding, awesome, nice guy, then there was probably no shortage of random pieces of garbage who would keep quiet about thing like that forever.

There was more to it

For sure it was. I was just thinking, sorry that it isn't helpful.

 

[beubeubeu]

I can't stop thinking about it. It drives me crazy. And I have so many stupid questions.

Were people who believed in GLH's innocence also denying his previous charges and implying that rape and attempted murder of two pregnant women was also pinned on him?
Or was it like,"yeah, these previous things he did, I can imagine that knowing what I do about him, but Camp Scott murders doesn't look like him at all"?

Was there any scary movie about three girls being killed showed in theathres in the area in like year or two before the murders?
Was there any popular "scary story" with simmilar plot told around before?

Was tent number 8 ever called tent number 1?
If not, who could assume that tent 8 would be logically called number 1?

Was tent number 8 chronologically build first - were they made one by one or did people worked like on whole unit's fundaments in the same time?

Were these descriptions of "gutteral sounds" in the woods found as something unusual by the locals?
Could it be simmilar to some noises that hunters do and because of that someway common, as people are learning how to do those, sometimes just for fun and skill?

Was that suspicious death of local teenage boy not long after Camp Scott murders thoroughly investigated?

Is it known what race were girls in tent 7? If they saw someone that night, maybe that was what made murderer/s choose another tent? Were they all white? Was there a black girl or maybe native american girl?

Was it possible that someone had one of these whistles or soundmakers meant to scare away the wild/dangerous dogs and hang out close to that dog who supposedly went "crazy" with no reason?

I'm not expecting answers, just sharing things that I hit the wall with.

 

[MissLaura]

Is it known what race were girls in tent 7? If they saw someone that night, maybe that was what made murderer/s choose another tent? Were they all white? Was there a black girl or maybe native american girl?

I believe Denise was the only African-American girl at camp, but definitely that unit.

 

[beubeubeu]

I would love to read that book about the trial but it costs more than half of my monthly earnings without shipping so that's not gonna happen.
Few years ago I got a bit obsessed with this case too and read as much as I could find, now remembering that and adding some more...

Thinking that these girls could be alive today, if just people were not so dead set on disregarding everything kids say. I know that kids can say wild things and even make up some stuff but for God's sake, enough is enough.

Regular burglaries in boy scout camp nearby...
Regular burglaries in girl scout camp...
Teenage counsellor being in her sleeping bag, possibly in mortal danger, hiding as someone was ravaging through her stuff...
People seeing LGH frequently burglarizing Camp Scott or at least knowing about it...
Many local people well aware that dangerous rapist and almost double murdered is on the loose for years and live in the area, while his mother property is right next to the camp, while her house is right next to the camp (yeah, there is a possibility that she bought it and move in recently - I don't know that, but if not, that girl scout camp is basically like his backyard)...
Counsellors from another unit seeing and hearing someone going through bushes at the night of the murders, doing nothing...
Multiple girls reporting seeing some weird guy/s with flashlight messing around at the camp...

All that and much more just dismissed, children's reports dismissed, counsellors report dismissed, what on Earth could be happening at that camp before that people considered it as not very alarming?
Did they even knew who's allowed there and who's an intruder? More I read more I feel that anyone could walk in, drive in, not only with flashlight but with full set of drums on him, playing loudly and nobody would notice that as kids were seen as totally unreliable, and counsellors were just a bit bigger kids, so same attitude.

Without guards, constantly checking out if everything is ok in each unit, with all these things happening before and not causing any extra (extra to almost zero) precaution I would say that it was not only "not very risky" for one person to attack three girls in the middle of the night, but also not impossible that GLH was there that night, as well as these creepy guys who scared that preacher (after inviting him to have some sinister "fun" with them), possibly as well as few other local drifters checking out the area.

 

[beubeubeu]

So there is a bloody, pretty distinct shoeprint. No investigator, counsellor, girl or anyone allowed in CS had that shoesize or that shoeprint.
I assume that forensics could tell if someone stepped into the pool of fresh blood or few hours after it was spilled. So it was left on the scene right after or through the murders.
If GLH was into wearing shoes way too small for him he would have deformed feet, so not hard to check.
If he was the only perp and was so concerned with whipping down prints in blood on the floor why did he left that one? Clearly he wouldn't be scared off by anyone at that point, Denise was still alive and there were two dead kids to carry out of there with whatever reason. Why would he bother wiping shoeprints which weren't his size?

 

[beubeubeu]

Why would he just dropped in that cave pictures so important and cherished that he woul took them with him while escaping from prison and carry close to him for years of hiding?

And how hiding in that cave connect him to CS more than hiding anywhere else around which was well known that he was if I get things correctly.
What kind of scenario is it? It ties him to the sheriff, if anyhow to anything.

 

[beubeubeu]

My heart just broke. I just learned that Lori was scared of camping and forced to stay at that terry fing remote tent... And that Denise asked to be allowed to call home that evening, most likely to ask to be taken back home but was denied... And that all three girls were left out as the remaining 24 girls from that unit choosed their tentmates, but nobody choosed them so they ended up in the last tent.

 

[Luckyzmom]

Yes , amazing how these little gals ended up in that particular tent. One of so many seemingly odd events related with this case.

 

[wary]

Yes , amazing how these little gals ended up in that particular tent. One of so many seemingly odd events related with this case.

But if it hadn’t been them, it would have been other little girls. Am I missing the point?

 

[beubeubeu]

But if it hadn’t been them, it would have been other little girls. Am I missing the point?

I didn't meant that. I don't even find that particular event as odd, seems quite reasonable that girls who already choosed their tentmates were assigned to the highest available tent number, and last ones ended up in the last one. It's usually like that. Just more saddening that they probably overcame their worst fears before falling asleep and right after that the unimaginable was did to them.

Some details may suggest that was not well planned, thus small hope raises that maybe "if something" then perp or perps would get noticed, scared off and no one would get hurt.
Other details suggest that was planned well ahead and there is not much to go on with scenarios where nobody gets hurt.

I've read some post on fb threads about unreasonable it seems that counsellors didn't heard anything and just "had to" hear something but dismissed it. Someone did burglarized their tent that night, for sure hanged out very close to it. Were they inside why someone was ravaging through their stuff, or was it while they were checking out on girls in other tents or went to latrines?
If there was more than one perp then maybe he was waiting outside or right next to counsellors tent, waiting till they will fall asleep, checking if they are getting alarmed by whatever is happening close to tent number 8 and finally guarding them to not let them interrupt the murders? Possibly with intent to attack and kill them as well if they will wake up, hearing something and attempt to investigate? Or just make some more of these gutteral sounds to communicate with other perps?
It's at least a minute or two of walking from tent nr1 to tent nr8, maybe not enough to run away with the girls but for sure enough to disappear in the night.

 

[MsCrime]

First, if you are unaware of how heartbreaking and wildly unexplainable this case is, I will list a few links below to some websites, along with some podcast recommendations (if that is your jam).

Second, why am I bringing this case to light once again? This case has always burned a whole through me. It does not entirely add up. There are too many moving pieces for this case to be tied up with a pretty bow and put on a shelf. I want to know more, and I am asking upon my Sleuths to guide me in this.

The best site: HOME
The second best site: Camp Scott | Abandoned Oklahoma
Podcasts: Crime Junkie & Morbid

Overview: Michelle Guse, Doris Milner, and Lorie Farmer were three young girls having the all-American camping experience at Camp Scott Girl Scout Camp, near Locust Grove Oklahoma on June 13th, 1977. The camp consisted of 8 tents, 7 for the campers and one for the counselors. (Prepare yourself to be enraged with how the camp is set up with these young children...) Think of a sideways 'U', the top left of the U is the counselors tent, with the campers tents forming the rest of the letter. Guse, Milner, and Farmer were in the last tent, farthest away from the counselors, out of sight from their tent being blocked by the dining hall/activities center. Through the night, with screams being heard by counselors and campers and flashlights being seen in the woods, someone or more than one person killed and sexually molested the three girls. The perps then carried the girls (some zipped closed in their sleeping bags, all varying injuries) around 150 yards from their tent, over to the counselors side of the campgrounds. The rest of the story... is where things get weird.

Before continuing, it is worth mentioning none of this was handled well by the Girl Scout Administration or police at this time... just as an example, previously before this certain week where the girls came to camp, the camp admin found a note stating that someone was going to kill three girls in a tent. They thought it was a prank..... We'll leave it at that.

When the police arrived, the wooden floor platform of tent number 7 was covered in blood. The perp seemed to have attempted to wipe the blood using towels and mattresses either before or after moving the girls. There were also multiple foot prints found inside, outside, and around the tent. (the tent, is exactly what you are thinking. Triangle shaped cloth being held up in the middle, with one slit down the front. Safe, right?) Fingerprints on the bodies, a flashlight with newspaper wadded up and shoved into the flashlight to hold the battery in place, a piece of cord, and duct tape has all been found. Eyeglasses and an eyeglass case is also found, the case belonging to a counselor at the camp.

A ranch near by heard the story of the girls and reports he had recently had things stolen through the night. The "Wonderdogs" are then called into the scene to assist (ones name is Butt.....amazing.)

This is when the first "real" suspect is named... Gene Lerot Hart. Hart escaped from the Mayes County jail four years prior to the murders and has eluded police ever since, leaving a nasty taste in some of the police force's mouth. *cough* Pete Weaver *cough*

Sheriff Pete Weaver announces a murder weapon has been found. The DA, agents of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, and everyone else have no clue what he is talking about- as that has not been found. Weaver announces the murder weapon is a crowbar, and that this crowbar also has fingerprints.

While the tracking dogs are still doing their thang, rumors arise that a local Cherokee Medicine Man in the area (who is well known) has placed a curse on the tracking dogs and predicts that they all or just one will die soon. Later in the day on the 18th of June, one of the dogs dies from heat prostration.

June 19th- no one knows how to can't and they are throwing out numbers left and right about how many suspects they have in the case. DA says no suspects, Weaver says one suspect, OSBI says 3. WHAT?

June 2oth, another one of the "wonder dogs" was killed without explanation when he ran out into heavy traffic, completely randomly. Spooky.

June 21st, National Guard is called in for an all out man-hunt. Another suspect is named. This time, he is a former camper near a Boys Scout Camp that is located nearby the Girls Scout Camp who apparently had stolen a hatchet and some supplies from the Boy Scout Camp.

STICK WITH ME BECAUSE NOW IT GETS A BIT CONFUSING...

June 22nd, officials find two photographs found with three woman pictured. Some officials say they were found near the bodies, some say near some caves about two miles from Camp Scott. Fast forward to the next day, officials disclose the photo which were found were developed by Gene Leroy Hart (first suspect) while he was working at a photo lab at the Granite Reformatory. He supposedly would develop photos for an amateur photographer/prison guard.

June 22nd- July 1st, manhunt manhunt manhunt. Heat seeking instruments and the whole 9 yards to try and locate not only Gene, but anyone who could be connected. Through this time, officials have posted up at the camp site to ensure no disruptions happen to any leftover evidence while the manhunt continues. Many officers report spooky, unexplained noises, feelings, sightings, etc. At one point, a pair of shoes belonging to Denise Milner was placed on the steps of the camp directors home, WHILE OFFICERS WERE GUARDING IT. Yet, they have no clue who did it. These shoes were confirmed to be one of the victims by the parents.

And then the case ends up going absolutely, positively, 100% cold. With nothing else to gain from the campsite, they release it and it is never opened again. Butttttttt, the autopsies are released on the girls, reporting no fingerprints whatsoever.

In April 1978, after hunting all this time, Gene is finally caught just bro-ing out at a friends house belonging to Sam Pigeon. He is arrested and transported directly to the OK State Penitentiary. Please make note here, the dude was wearing womens eyeglasses when he was caught. State agents took a picture with Gene (wtf) and I swear to God, it looks like a bunch of 30-40 year old dads out fishing after a few cold ones.

I want to make sure and add in a few points regarding Gene before ending this and opening this thread to the masses for input....
1. Gene has prior convictions. But not just any convictions. Convictions of abducting two women (one being pregnant), attempting to rape and kill them, but also stole their eyeglasses from them. The women ended up escaping and reported he was wearing their glasses and mocking them. Remember the eyeglasses and case that were stolen from the campsite?

2. The same women, while being raped, reported him making disturbing and weird moaning/animal/grunting noises. The same noises were described in the woods the night the three girls were killed.

3. The newspaper found shoved in the flashlight was also found in one of the caves nearby. Also in that cave, was some clothing, food, etc. hinting that someone had been living there. That newspaper had prints officials believed to be Gene's when he was hiding from police.

4. Don't forget the picture coinky-dink. The picture of the three women found in the cave, that Gene had also developed for his photography buddy awhile back while he was serving his time.

Now-

This is all weird. Circumstancial. Odd. What happened to the last "Wonderdog"? So many questions. I need some answers and some thoughts and I leave it to my fellow sleuths. I'm going to leave it here and not get into the trial quite yet...

Bring on the crime solving.

MsCrime

 

[MsCrime]

I didn't meant that. I don't even find that particular event as odd, seems quite reasonable that girls who already choosed their tentmates were assigned to the highest available tent number, and last ones ended up in the last one. It's usually like that. Just more saddening that they probably overcame their worst fears before falling asleep and right after that the unimaginable was did to them.

Some details may suggest that was not well planned, thus small hope raises that maybe "if something" then perp or perps would get noticed, scared off and no one would get hurt.
Other details suggest that was planned well ahead and there is not much to go on with scenarios where nobody gets hurt.

I've read some post on fb threads about unreasonable it seems that counsellors didn't heard anything and just "had to" hear something but dismissed it. Someone did burglarized their tent that night, for sure hanged out very close to it. Were they inside why someone was ravaging through their stuff, or was it while they were checking out on girls in other tents or went to latrines?
If there was more than one perp then maybe he was waiting outside or right next to counsellors tent, waiting till they will fall asleep, checking if they are getting alarmed by whatever is happening close to tent number 8 and finally guarding them to not let them interrupt the murders? Possibly with intent to attack and kill them as well if they will wake up, hearing something and attempt to investigate? Or just make some more of these gutteral sounds to communicate with other perps?
It's at least a minute or two of walking from tent nr1 to tent nr8, maybe not enough to run away with the girls but for sure enough to disappear in the night.

I just did a whole new thread based on this case, it haunts me that much. I agree with you. I also cannot get over the fact a note was left before this specific week of camp for these three girls, where something along the lines of "three girls are going to die" was written and the camp thought it was a PRANK. That to me, is a plain taunt and hint into what he/they were planning. I do believe it was a team, for many many reasons. And I find it almost impossible not only did the counselors not hear anything, but no other campers.

 

[Richard]

LINK:
This Unsolved Oklahoma Mystery From 1977 Will Leave You Baffled

 

[beubeubeu]

I just did a whole new thread based on this case, it haunts me that much. I agree with you. I also cannot get over the fact a note was left before this specific week of camp for these three girls, where something along the lines of "three girls are going to die" was written and the camp thought it was a PRANK. That to me, is a plain taunt and hint into what he/they were planning. I do believe it was a team, for many many reasons. And I find it almost impossible not only did the counselors not hear anything, but no other campers.

I can't name specific cases at the moment but I do recall that things were happening, insane things, that would make people freak out about a stalker or serial killer targeting them if that would happen today, but in 60's, 70's and 80's they "just took it as a prank" or didn't believed those who reported that.
I mean series of ghost calls, threatening notes, death threats, some obscure phone calls, broken windows, killed pets, someone following them, trying to break in...
Of course I don't mean that it ALL happened in one case (well, to Cindy James it did, all that and more) but things way way too disturbing to just say that handsight is 20:20 - at least in today point of view - and people apparently just took it as a prank or forced others to see particular event as such.

I just recalled that years ago my mother told me that when she was a teen, and during summer holidays she got on summer camp and one evening some adult man broke into the girls bathroom and stole their underwear WHILE THEY WERE SHOWERING. Other girls went in, scare him off so he run through the window he entered and absolutely nothing was done about it. Adults in her camp werent even alarmed enough to notify police, guard the girls, nothing. Nobody asked those who saw him to describe how he looked like.

It's impossible to get over such things but be fair, that kind of attitude wasn't uncommon at the time, and often wasn't even the matter of poor judgement of all people involved, just those who could really do something about it.

About hearing/not hearing stuff... Whatever kids heard or saw they knew well that pretty much nobody cares. And being inexperienced to outdoors and that area you wouldn't necessarily knew what you hear even if you do, and being half asleep you can never be sure.
If you would just lie there, with at least one ear exposed you would most likely hear something even from counsellors tent... but how much was there to hear? We don't know.
It might be possible that because of showers between counsellors tent and tent number 8 that those three counsellors in Kiowa could hear less than those from Quapaw or even Arapahoe (if they weren't asleep).

Back to the note... it wasn't really possible to know weeks before camp started that there will be three, not four girls in tent 8... unless it was quite common to sign uneven number of kids to Kiowa, ten let them pick their tentmates... resulting with usually having just three girls there.
That would require some good inside knowledge... but well acknowledged insider would also know tent numbers.

Did that note even existed? Was really that specific threat on there if it does?
If so, single killer would have to be pretty hungry for mindgames with people.
And if it wasn't a single killer, there could be someone aware of somebodys plan to commit these murders, unable or unwilling to take a risk of trying to stop it by himself but trying to warn the camp to protect the girls better.

We are not gonna solve it just by thinking about possibilities. One seem more reasonable than the others but everybodys best bet would be that rootless hair still exist and could be tested for DNA using that newest method.

 

[Betty P]

I would love to read that book about the trial but it costs more than half of my monthly earnings without shipping so that's not gonna happen.
Few years ago I got a bit obsessed with this case too and read as much as I could find, now remembering that and adding some more...

Thinking that these girls could be alive today, if just people were not so dead set on disregarding everything kids say. I know that kids can say wild things and even make up some stuff but for God's sake, enough is enough.

Regular burglaries in boy scout camp nearby...
Regular burglaries in girl scout camp...
Teenage counsellor being in her sleeping bag, possibly in mortal danger, hiding as someone was ravaging through her stuff...
People seeing LGH frequently burglarizing Camp Scott or at least knowing about it...
Many local people well aware that dangerous rapist and almost double murdered is on the loose for years and live in the area, while his mother property is right next to the camp, while her house is right next to the camp (yeah, there is a possibility that she bought it and move in recently - I don't know that, but if not, that girl scout camp is basically like his backyard)...
Counsellors from another unit seeing and hearing someone going through bushes at the night of the murders, doing nothing...
Multiple girls reporting seeing some weird guy/s with flashlight messing around at the camp...

All that and much more just dismissed, children's reports dismissed, counsellors report dismissed, what on Earth could be happening at that camp before that people considered it as not very alarming?
Did they even knew who's allowed there and who's an intruder? More I read more I feel that anyone could walk in, drive in, not only with flashlight but with full set of drums on him, playing loudly and nobody would notice that as kids were seen as totally unreliable, and counsellors were just a bit bigger kids, so same attitude.

Without guards, constantly checking out if everything is ok in each unit, with all these things happening before and not causing any extra (extra to almost zero) precaution I would say that it was not only "not very risky" for one person to attack three girls in the middle of the night, but also not impossible that GLH was there that night, as well as these creepy guys who scared that preacher (after inviting him to have some sinister "fun" with them), possibly as well as few other local drifters checking out the area.

I have the book if you would like for me to look up something.

 

[Betty P]

I just did a whole new thread based on this case, it haunts me that much. I agree with you. I also cannot get over the fact a note was left before this specific week of camp for these three girls, where something along the lines of "three girls are going to die" was written and the camp thought it was a PRANK. That to me, is a plain taunt and hint into what he/they were planning. I do believe it was a team, for many many reasons. And I find it almost impossible not only did the counselors not hear anything, but no other campers.

A couple of things about the note. Its existence was discussed mostly as rumor. I don't think it was even reported at the time, nor at the time of the murders. As happens sometimes with cold cases, people discuss things like, "I remember my neighbor told me when she went there that this... happened". Then it ends up getting passed around as fact.

There was one verified report by one of the camp counselors that appeared in the book. In the days before the girls arrived, the counselors were there with other staff getting ready. One of the counselors had fallen ill or something. She was put into a cabin where they usually had nurse staff during camp, near the administrative buildings. Other nurses and staff would come by to check on her, bring her food, etc. There was a dog who lived at the camp, I think he belonged to the caretaker who lived there. One night as she slept in the cabin, the counselor heard someone outside. It sounded like they were trying to get in. Fortunately, the camp dog ran up and began to bark. The person ran away via another area of the camp.

Pretty sure she reported it, but wasn't sure what she heard. IIRC, she also told police about it later after the murders. IIRC, there were one or two other counselors who heard someone moving through the camp the night of the murders.

Keep in mind, its very dark out there at night in the countryside. The camp is in a wooded area. There was no history of this kind of murder happening in any scout camp in the US. People just weren't considering that kind of risk. Those camps were pretty isolated, gates locked at night. Anyone trying to get in would have a rough slog in the hilly woods on a dark night. That's why the perp was considered to be someone local.

Camps were also accustomed to a certain amount of minor vandalism and theft during the off season. That's why they had a caretaker who lived there year round.

Basically, there was no way they could have realistically prevented this tragedy. The camps didn't have the funds to install razor wire fencing around the perimeter of the camp.

 

[MissLaura]

Here is an article on the note where Michelle Hoffman describes what happened:

Girl Scout murders: Strange 'mission to kill' note leaves a mystery, stirs conspiracies

I'm not convinced the note was related to the crimes. Allegedly, some girls confessed to writing it. Most tents held 4 girls. How would the perp know months ahead of time he'd go into a tent which had 3 girls instead of 4?

The podcast Morbid recently did an episode on this case, and their judgement and comments about the camp and counselors were ridiculous, IMO. I mean it was not 2020 back then, it was 1977.

 

[beubeubeu]

I have the book if you would like for me to look up something.

These supposedly "reappearing" shoes didn't belonged to Denise, right? There wasn't her name on them and none of the girls shoes were missing after the murder?

Was that writing on the cave ever compared to GLH's handwriting? If so, how likely it was that he wrote that?

Was it ever seriously considered and investigated if there could be someone who would like to frame GLH? (by "someone" I don't mean sheriff or anyone from LE, I've read a lot about that and I'm not convinced these guys would like to send such horrendous killer/s free just to frame a guy who didn't need any framing to stay in jail)

Was it mentioned in the book (or anywhere, cause I didn't find it in any article I could find) if GLH pleaded guilty or ever admitted to the rapes and attempted murders of these two young pregnant women?

 

[Betty P]

These supposedly "reappearing" shoes didn't belonged to Denise, right? There wasn't her name on them and none of the girls shoes were missing after the murder?

Was that writing on the cave ever compared to GLH's handwriting? If so, how likely it was that he wrote that?

Was it ever seriously considered and investigated if there could be someone who would like to frame GLH? (by "someone" I don't mean sheriff or anyone from LE, I've read a lot about that and I'm not convinced these guys would like to send such horrendous killer/s free just to frame a guy who didn't need any framing to stay in jail)

Was it mentioned in the book (or anywhere, cause I didn't find it in any article I could find) if GLH pleaded guilty or ever admitted to the rapes and attempted murders of these two young pregnant women?

I'll look it up and let you know.

 

[Betty P]

Regarding the rapes of the two women, yes he admitted to The rapes, assault and kdnapping, but refused to admit he used a gun to make them comply.

The women survived the attack. One of them was able to see beneath the tape binding her head and memorized the license plate number on his car. He had accosted them in a parking lot. He yanked open the car door as the driver was backing up. He showed his gun, forced the 2 women out of their car and into the trunk of his car. The women noticed he had lined the trunk of his car with newspaper.

After stopping for gas, he drove them out to Locust Grove, not far from the Girl Scout camp. They drove down a dirt road where he took them out of the trunk bound their heads with tape gagged them with rags. One at a time, he raped them. One victim was raped twice and sodomized once. He forced them to walk through a pond wherevone of them nearly drowned. On te other side he hog tied them in a way that, if they tried to move, the rope tightened around their necks and strangled them. Then he left. One was able to hold her breath long enough to tug on the rope and get out of the bindings. She then got her friend out of her bindings and they climbed out and walked to the main road where they were rescued.

Both women were around 5 months pregnant. They were able to remember his license plate number, described his car, what he looked like, the clothes he was wearing. The women were best friends since childhood and kept each other motivated to fight against Hart. He left them to die, but one was able to get free.

Tape and cord used to bi d the women was found in Harts car. He worked at Flint Steel in Tulsa and had called in sick that night. Hart confessed and told pretty much the same story as the girls. The only difference was that he claimed he didn't use a gun and that the women went along with it and liked it.

He admitted tying them in front, but untied and retied them in the back so he could have sex with them. He said the women helped him do that, even though they had grease rags stuffed in their mouths and were tied and taped up.

They asked him what he did afterward and he bragged about running his fishing lines and catching 4 fish. He was interrogated by Sheriff Pete Weaver and 2 OSBI agents.

"On October 14,1966 Hart was sentenced to 3 ten year terms concurrently after pleading guilty in Mayes County on two charges of kidnapping and one charge of first degree rape."

"On March 19, 1969 after serving twenty-eight months, Hart, on unanimous recommendation of the Pardon and Parole Board, was paroled."