OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

[nevereverever]

Law enforcement saying no foul play rules out murder including murder-suicide.

Too coincidental for all 3 to die of natural causes at the same time, so that's ruled out.

Absence of clothing rules out accident, because that would be too highly coincidental.

Absence of clothing indicates hypothermia, and hypothermia is no foul play. No other reason for them all to have no clothes since there's no foul play.

Hypothermia makes people do strange things. They become very disorientated, can hallucinate, become paranoid. Death can occur in as little as half an hour.

There was a young girl, about 20, walking home from a concert. Can't remember her name. She walked down a road, by the side of the road. Snow was piled up on the sides of the road, and she was on the other side. Loads of traffic on the road, people coming home from a big concert. All she had to do was climb that snow drift and wave her arms. Instead, she started taking off her clothes, then collapsed, and sadly, died. All within a very short period time.

They just don't do the expected - they don't build fires - they can't even light a lighter. They don't do the simplest things to try to save themselves. They do the unexpected - like taking off their clothes, even though they're getting colder and colder.

I'm going with hypothermia, but I'll keep checking the news for more information from law enforcement.

Very sad case, for a whole family to be gone.

JMO.

While I believe murder-suicide is foul play, Pensfan linked a couple articles last night of cases of murder-suicides where LE said they did not suspect foul play, so I don't think we can say, without more, that in this case, LE saying they don't suspect foul play means they don't suspect murder-suicide.
You are correct, though, that people experiencing hypothermia, even those who don't have underlying mental illness as the Jamisons apparently did, will do crazy things, like take off their clothes, and not even think to light a fire, or be capable of such. And they do often just lie down and die from the elements. So, I agree that this seems like a likely possibility.

That interview with the mother is so sad. I feel just awful for her, and can't imagine what she is experiencing right now. But it seems ironic that she says she is dismissing "wild" theories about what happened to them, but offers up her belief they were murdered by a religious cult.

 

[Pensfan]

While I believe murder-suicide is foul play, Pensfan linked a couple articles last night of cases of murder-suicides where LE said they did not suspect foul play, so I don't think we can say, without more, that in this case, LE saying they don't suspect foul play means they don't suspect murder-suicide.
You are correct, though, that people experiencing hypothermia, even those who don't have underlying mental illness as the Jamisons apparently did, will do crazy things, like take off their clothes, and not even think to light a fire, or be capable of such. And they do often just lie down and die from the elements. So, I agree that this seems like a likely possibility.

That interview with the mother is so sad. I feel just awful for her, and can't imagine what she is experiencing right now. But it seems ironic that she says she is dismissing "wild" theories about what happened to them, but offers up her belief they were murdered by a religious cult.

bbm
Five of the most common psychiatric disorders are genetically linked. These are:
• autism
• attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
• clinical depression
• bipolar disorder
• schizophrenia
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-...s-1st-ld-writethru/?utm_hp_ref=media&ir=media

 

[Roxye]

bbm
Five of the most common psychiatric disorders are genetically linked. These are:
• autism
• attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
• clinical depression
• bipolar disorder
• schizophrenia
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-...s-1st-ld-writethru/?utm_hp_ref=media&ir=media

Pen, I am not connecting your bolds. Could you please explain?

 

[Snoods]

The answer is: Patsy Ramsey or someone who is bipolar, not taking her medicine, and not making good decisions

Psychiatric inpatients also like to color their hair and other patients' hair with Kool Aid.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

Using grape kool aid is actually a quick fix to help tone down a brassy dye job. I've used it before :blushing:

 

[meanmaryjean]

While I believe murder-suicide is foul play, Pensfan linked a couple articles last night of cases of murder-suicides where LE said they did not suspect foul play, so I don't think we can say, without more, that in this case, LE saying they don't suspect foul play means they don't suspect murder-suicide.
You are correct, though, that people experiencing hypothermia, even those who don't have underlying mental illness as the Jamisons apparently did, will do crazy things, like take off their clothes, and not even think to light a fire, or be capable of such. And they do often just lie down and die from the elements. So, I agree that this seems like a likely possibility.

That interview with the mother is so sad. I feel just awful for her, and can't imagine what she is experiencing right now. But it seems ironic that she says she is dismissing "wild" theories about what happened to them, but offers up her belief they were murdered by a religious cult.

BBM: And in the middle of nowhere, to boot!

I'm of the mind that if it is NOT murder/ suicide, (and I actually think it was) then they got lost, one of them unable to continue walking, they remained together trying to get the immobile one of the group up and moving, THEN succumbed to the elements.

 

[LadyL]

This is my question, snipped>


The Jamisons planned to leave their nice lakeside home and buy a plot of land in the mountains and live in metal shipping containers. They wanted to get away from it all. But why? They had a beautiful home. They had several time shares around the US and Mexico. The had newer vehicles and lived well above their means of social security disablilty."

http://keepthesearchalive.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/missing-jamison-family/

Neither worked, both on disability. Where did the $$ come from? $32,000 cash? Late model cars? Lakeside home?

eerie similarities to the McStays ...

 

[LadyL]

If the reader is familiar with the so-called "last picture" (of Madyson), mentioned in at least one of the tv broadcasts (Sherilyn's friend finds it indicative of foul play), that was a point of much discussion over the years here. Whattaya think? Does the child look distressed? if so, do you think something was up, so to speak? Or is it just indicative of a tired child?

Madyson Jamison

maybe she was just tired & cranky because they were making her hike but the photo has always bothered me and still does - something's off IMO

 

[LadyL]

New article:

"The mother of a woman missing in northern Latimer County since late 2009 said she believes a religious cult is responsible for the disappearance and now presumed deaths of her daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter."

"Sitting in her apartment Tuesday afternoon in northwest Oklahoma City, Connie Kokotan discounted “wild” theories about the disappearance of the Jamisons — even those publicly discussed by law enforcement officials.

“Just like I've said from the very beginning, I think somebody killed them,” Kokotan said. “There's just no way that Bobby and Sherilyn would ever let anything happen to Madyson unless something had been done to them.”

Kokotan, 63, said that Sherilyn Jamison was on a “hit list” maintained by an unnamed religious cult operating in southeast Oklahoma."

Video and much more at link.

http://newsok.com/mother-believes-c...klahoma-familys-disappearance/article/3906475

oh dear ...

 

[wfgodot]

I think we can discount the "hit list" / southeast Oklahoma "religious cult" theory Ms. Kokotan alludes to.

(linked above: http://newsok.com/mother-believes-c...klahoma-familys-disappearance/article/3906475)

 

[hollye]

So this is what I have come up with for GPS coords for the location of the bodies. Should be within a mile. It is section 28-T 7N-20E. It is the top portion of Grassy Lake Hollow. Latitude: 35.0509313 North Longitude: -95.1980223 West

I have been following the Jamison's since the beginning, but admittedly not posted much. I had a map that vanished, along with some others, including Kyron's, that I have had to recreate. I am finally caught up. from rereading all 11 threads.

mtrooper, you have been amazing on this case! Can you please assist in my understanding of how you came up with the location of the remains? Most articles that I have seen said that the remains were found approximately 2.7 miles NorthWest of the location of the truck. These coordinates are almost exactly North of the truck.

I had also read somewhere that the remains were found at a campsite. Does anyone know if this is true? I did find a campsite that is approximately 2.7 miles NorthWest of the location of the truck, which I was thinking could be where they were found.

Here is the map that I had put together... https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...&ll=35.026201,-95.208378&spn=0.093199,0.15707

 

[BunnyHop]

New article:

"The mother of a woman missing in northern Latimer County since late 2009 said she believes a religious cult is responsible for the disappearance and now presumed deaths of her daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter."

"Sitting in her apartment Tuesday afternoon in northwest Oklahoma City, Connie Kokotan discounted “wild” theories about the disappearance of the Jamisons — even those publicly discussed by law enforcement officials.

“Just like I've said from the very beginning, I think somebody killed them,” Kokotan said. “There's just no way that Bobby and Sherilyn would ever let anything happen to Madyson unless something had been done to them.”

Kokotan, 63, said that Sherilyn Jamison was on a “hit list” maintained by an unnamed religious cult operating in southeast Oklahoma."

Video and much more at link.

http://newsok.com/mother-believes-c...klahoma-familys-disappearance/article/3906475

I have been following the Jamison's since the beginning, but admittedly not posted much. I had a map that vanished, along with some others, including Kyron's, that I have had to recreate. I am finally caught up. from rereading all 11 threads.

mtrooper, you have been amazing on this case! Can you please assist in my understanding of how you came up with the location of the remains? Most articles that I have seen said that the remains were found approximately 2.7 miles NorthWest of the location of the truck. These coordinates are almost exactly North of the truck.

I had also read somewhere that the remains were found at a campsite. Does anyone know if this is true? I did find a campsite that is approximately 2.7 miles NorthWest of the location of the truck, which I was thinking could be where they were found.

Here is the map that I had put together... https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...&ll=35.026201,-95.208378&spn=0.093199,0.15707

BBM what kind of campsite?

 

[hollye]

According to this video, they found "partial skeletal remains and some clothing like shoes, things like that..."

http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomane...ily/-/12530084/23038358/-/ki8w7o/-/index.html

 

[SuziQ]

I guess the biggest issue I have is how did Bobby walk so far? I just don't see how he could have done it.

 

[wfgodot]

One does wonder about the extent of Bobby Jamison's disability. If not as severe as advertised....

 

[Mollyandme]

I think we can discount the "hit list" / southeast Oklahoma "religious cult" theory Ms. Kokotan alludes to.

(linked above: http://newsok.com/mother-believes-c...klahoma-familys-disappearance/article/3906475)

i agree. i think this is something Sherilyn might have told her mother before they disappeared but i am of the opinion that it was just a delusion/paranoia that Sherilyn was experiencing

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped:

Hypothermia makes people do strange things. They become very disorientated, can hallucinate, become paranoid. Death can occur in as little as half an hour.

This is a symptom of hypothermia and is called "paradoxical undressing." Wiki said it occurs in 25% of hypothermia cases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxical_undressing#Paradoxical_undressing

There was a in 1959 in February in Northern Russia (Soviet Union), called the Dyatlov Pass incident, that is quite famous and controversial in Russia.

Does anyone know the temperature when the disappeared and if there was rain (I recall hearing of storms)? Was the vehicle drivable?

 

[2Hope4]

Can someone please link where it says LE said no foul play? Because in this article LE says

The OSBI said it will investigate if foul play could have caused the family members' deaths.
“Obviously that is something that we are going to look at,” Perkinson said.

The skeletal remains are now with the State Medical Examiner. It will be up to the medical examiner to rule on the cause of death.

http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomane...23040912/-/3ne107z/-/index.html#ixzz2lAGKebjY


The ONLY reference to no foul play that I could find from LE was in reference to them missing. The article stated LE didn't think foul play was involved in their disappearance, but I've found nothing that says anything about cause of death not being foul play.

 

[2Hope4]

As for the clothing, it's been years since they went missing. Lots of rains, snows, and heat during that time frame. Cotton deteriorates. If any clothing was left, it was shreds only, IMO. Plus figure in animal activity. Mice, squirrels, birds using those fibers for nest making.

 

[2Hope4]

It's been years, and as my siggy shows, I have fibro fog, so memory isn't always the greatest. For some reason I keep thinking there was some family issues going on at the time of their disappearance. A business, lawsuit, something. I remember people wondering why more wasn't being done to try to find them. Does anyone else remember? I can try to go back through all the pages and see if I can find it. Might be in those first postings, but doubt seriously that the links work now.

 

[Love Coco]

It seems far too much of a coincidence for both the McStays and the Jamisons to be found in the same week. So strange! I'm in shock, I think.