Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

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Right. Like we trust a murderer to tell the truth?

I suspect that the Righteous Misfits might reject the term "murder" in favour of "Patriotic Defense Action" or some such tripe. They will cast themselves as Saviours of the Children, willing to give their own lives to The Cause, because Big Government was about to fail them yet again.

They will be wrong, cynically and self-servingly wring. and wholly culpable of double murder -- but will still claim the high ground, without shame. And they will have their steadfast supporters, like the ex-Municipal Judge, who will describe them as "good people."

It won't help.

My peanut gallery prediction.
 
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I would think that these members of a sovereign citizen group would not be friends with someone who is establishment, especially a judge. So this is odd to me. Was this friendship genuine, or pretense on the part of TA and Cullum in order to use and influence him in any legal wrangling? Or is this judge not exactly clean cut in his occupation ?
But what do I know, maybe they both enjoyed fishing or whatever.
IMO, this is very much the middle of nowheresville. Two-thousand people and maybe - what? 25,000 cows?

Establishment? The area has been losing people ever since 1950. IMO, anyone with pretentions to being establishment, just leaves.

JMO
 
I still say...all they had to do was redact him from the AA. WHY didn't they?
IMO, they could not edit the witness statement of CW. She did not see him herself, but recalls her mother naming him. LE cannot go into that statement and just cut out something that CW said.

It highlights the problem with hearsay evidence. It is not eyewitness testimony, so it can contain inaccuracies, coming either from CW, or Cora.

JMO
 
Don't get too excited, it's a two year municipal appointment to traffic court, requires high school graduation 'or equivalent'. Boise city has slightly over 1,000 residents, the whole county has slightly over 2,000. How many disputed traffic violations are they really likely to have?


Vincent Forbes wasn't even an Oklahoma Judge-- he worked for the Municipal Court in Elkhart, Kansas!


 
Don't mean to be political, but TA was the GOP Chairman of the area, giving her some power. Area also is pretty "we all stick together." FBI took precautions so this didn't turn out as an A Bundy deal. Seems murder was a bit far to protect for the area's agenda, however. Wish area residents would speak out, but so far not much to say.
I think the gang messed up when they included Jilian in their crime spree! She was a Mom and was doing a Civic Service by Supervising this visitation. I don’t think they will have the support they expected from their other cronies. If they had kidnapped Veronica and drove off leaving Jilian in the car without her phone, then I could see some that are members of their group would possibly be thinking that TA was doing what they felt the Govt would not do to protect the kids. TA’s problem is she planned premeditated murder on both women. She could try to say,”Im saving the kids” or “I mentally lost it” but this isn’t believable because they murdered an innocent bystander ( Jilian). I think their supposed power in the area has been drastically diminished. A few old timers, like this Judge, are trying to protect their own reputations. Every time this Judge speaks, in my opinion he looks worse!
 
I suspect that the Righteous Misfits might reject the term "murder" in favour of "Patriotic Defense Action" or some such tripe. They will cast themselves as Saviours of the Children, willing to give their own lives to The Cause, because Big Government was about to fail them yet again.

They will be wrong, cynically and self-servingly wring. and wholly culpable of double murder -- but will still claim the high ground, without shame. And they will have their steadfast supporters, like the ex-Municipal Judge, who will describe them as "good people."

It won't help.

My peanut gallery prediction.
They have a hard time answering why they targeted an innocent bystander ( Jilian) who was just doing her assigned Supervisory job.
 
I hope flashbacks of the agony they caused these two victims forever haunt these four in their darkest hours.
RSBM.
One would hope but I doubt it will be the case for these perps. IMO they are extreme narcissists whack-jobs devoid of a conscience and are not one bit remorseful. In their deluded twisted minds VB and JK got what they deserved and they feel justified.
They planned and were on a “mission” to kill VB aka TA’s problem. We are aware of one of their plans/missions to kill her failed in February. Had to come up with a new plan. Approx 4-5 weeks later they ambushed, kidnapped and killed VB. Problem solved/mission accomplished. Oh and killed JK because she supported VB so she had to go.

These are ruthless evil killers that don’t follow the same rules and laws most of us do. They make their own laws and hate, persecute and blame others i.e. non followers that cross them and the government, when they break our laws, if that makes sense.

IMO the only thing these vile cold blooded murderers are sorry about/regret is getting caught.

So no, I don’t think they will be haunted by what they did to VB and JK, especially not TA. I would guess that along with feeling justified, she feels satisfied and likely even feels proud of what she did. Sickening.

IMHOO

ETA-punctuation
 
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Right now I’m just so triggered by all this. The main ojective was to get Veronica killed before the hearing even if it’s the day before. Even the day of. As long as Veronica didn’t make it to the hearing. I can’t believe grandma wasn’t secretly ecstatic she, herself as Tifany Machel Adams, had planned this not only to prohibit Veronica to ever have another day on this earth but that she would be in the news around the same day as the April 19, 1995 Murrah Building bombing. I hope firing squad will be the chosen method of death.
 
Good to see you @gitana1 Much of the background on this case can't be discussed here since the Court Docs were sealed during the investigation. Only thing currently unsealed is the AA dated 4/12. Look for a convo with space! :cool:

@gitana1 and anyone else interested in the docs for this case

NewsNation has links to the “Affidavit of Probable Cause for Arrest Warrant” for each of the four arrested.

Read them and weep.
 
My opinion as it stands right now—I think these four will never feel haunted by the agony of their victims. Instead, IMO they will consider it their finest hour. At least Tifany will.

I also agree that for TA, she is PROUD that she pulled it off. No matter what happens to her, Veronica will never have her children. Therefore TA’s goal was accomplished.

Obviously if she loved her grandchildren like a normal grandma, and genuinely felt that VB and/or Wrangler were unfit parents, she may have fought for custody of the children.

Any notion of that was blasted away when TA and her cronies killed VB and JK. If TA had even a molecule of love for her grandchildren, she would NEVER have murdered their mother.

No matter what TA claims going forward, I think she’s thrilled with herself.

JMO

I think her motivation was mainly driven by her own selfishness and her unwillingness to share with VB the nurturing of the children. But now TA has lost not only the children but her influence within the community so she didn’t pull anything off. Only if she’d pulled it off and hadn’t got arrested could she have been thrilled with herself. JMO
 
In the first custody hearing, Tifany came much more prepared than what Veronica or anyone ever would anticipate, and had photos of evidence and had more witnesses arranged to speak on Wrangler's account than Veronica had for herself. Tifany made it much bigger than it should have been because with her son being awarded full custody, it was only in his name in her mind, and those kids were hers. Eventually this led to her keeping the kids away from both of them, because with Wrangler's past and Tifany's influence it's easy for someone not understanding the full situation to casually assume perhaps they are better with her than their father with a criminal past and someone who she carefully molded to the public as not caring about them anyway. Veronica was young, but she had so much strength to fight this unfair battle where the cards were stacked unbeknownst and against her from the beginning. Tifany thought she really had control of them all up until Wrangler screwed up and managed to get arrested on Nov. 16 in possession of a firearm as a felon and was sentenced to six years, all suspended and placed on probation. Then, on Feb. 21, Wrangler was arrested and charged with Domestic Assault and Battery in the Presence of Minors and Public Intoxication, which prompted the district attorney to ask the court to revoke Wrangler's probation. The charge was for attacking his mother in law.

Tifany knew that this would be how Veronica would finally be awarded full custody. The court would finally award full custody to the mother, and while she could influence Wrangler to have the kids all the time, she couldn't do the same any longer with Veronica. We can't see the document that was sealed, and I'm not going to discuss it further than mentioning it, but it wouldn't matter at this stage bc unfortunately, imo Tifany had been planting seeds especially about Veronica and Wrangler for years anyway to potray a role she never was. Unfortunately, in her mind and how she convulted other weak minded people her view that no one was going to take those children away from her no matter the cost, the truth, the law, or consequence. Just imo.

@gitana1

Wrangler was not married to Veronica.

The mother-in-law mentioned above is from a current marriage. Current wife is pregnant, and she has made just one statement, iirc, early on, right after the disappearance of Veronica and Jilian.

I expect to see the court docs regarding the custody issues with Veronica to be unsealed again (and maybe redacted this time?) at some point in upcoming proceedings.
 
I'm confused about this discussion of the Twomblys marriage and whether it was common law... The Twomblys appear to have had a "solemnized" marriage pursuant to Oklahoma statute (aka went and got a marriage license and returned it). https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=cimarron&number=ML-2015-00003&cmid=8157022

My guess is that any reference to "covenant" was a religious, not a legal, description.

"went and got a marriage license and returned it"

So then there is no officiant signature to confirm a legal marriage in Oklahoma?

Is there some sort of officiant in God's Misfits that approves of all this or do they just all do whatever they want?

I really don't understand where the religion part of this comes from.
 
I think the gang messed up when they included Jilian in their crime spree! She was a Mom and was doing a Civic Service by Supervising this visitation. I don’t think they will have the support they expected from their other cronies. If they had kidnapped Veronica and drove off leaving Jilian in the car without her phone, then I could see some that are members of their group would possibly be thinking that TA was doing what they felt the Govt would not do to protect the kids. TA’s problem is she planned premeditated murder on both women. She could try to say,”Im saving the kids” or “I mentally lost it” but this isn’t believable because they murdered an innocent bystander ( Jilian). I think their supposed power in the area has been drastically diminished. A few old timers, like this Judge, are trying to protect their own reputations. Every time this Judge speaks, in my opinion he looks worse!
Well said.
A major foul up when they targeted Jillian.
So foolish and cruel, and what a way (for TA) to destroy everything she thought she'd accomplished !!
Omo.
 
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"went and got a marriage license and returned it"

So then there is no officiant signature to confirm a legal marriage in Oklahoma?

Is there some sort of officiant in God's Misfits that approves of all this or do they just all do whatever they want?

I really don't understand where the religion part of this comes from.
Sorry, I was a bit too brief in my statement "went and got a marriage license and returned it." There's more to it than that. Yes, an officiant must sign the certificate. Witnesses must also be listed and sign. The officiant must be licensed by the state of Oklahoma, but the requirements are pretty laughable so anyone can apply to be licensed. So, we can't see in records available online who officiated the marriage, just that they appear to have obtained a marriage license for the purpose of conducting a solemnization ceremony with an officiant/witnesses, and returned the license to be recorded.

When I read the post by Cole Twombly (linked several posts back) that mentioned covenant marriage, it seemed to me like they had a certain religious approach to their own marriage outside of meeting statutory requirements.
 
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