Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

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In any other case this would be incredibly weird, in this one though, it's par for the course. Imagine being friends with a guy who threatens people with firearms, and oh yeah, helps commit a double murder.

I have other thoughts about this, but they're best left unsaid until we know more.
Totally with you on this….

I’d like to see the membership roster of the “misfits”…..

Yikes.

MOO
 
I'm beginning to understsnd why they thought they could get away with this. Maybe the DOJ needs to take a close look at elected officials in this area.
I looked up about municipal judges in OK.

"There shall be one Judge of the Municipal Court, who shall be appointed by the City Manager. The official term of the Municipal Judge shall be two (2) years,...Qualifications: The Municipal Judge shall be at least thirty (30) years of age, a resident of the City, have a high school education (or the equivalent) and be of good moral character..."

It appears to be primarily traffic court.

However, in the twisted minds of God's Witless, he may have counted as 'powerful', and 'friends in high places'.

JMO
 
Bringing a post back around from the previous thread:


“What I see is that the Kia should have been loaded on the flatbed, the women put into it, then the car and all buried in the pre-dug hole. Then the flatbed would have moved the digging machine.”

ETA: quoted post is from @CuriousCricket

A skid was used to dig a hole and move concrete. It seems like the predug hole could have easily been made large enough to accommodate a car. With ramps, the Kia could have been driven onto the flatbed truck, provided it was drivable and/or there was time to load it.

But the car was not moved, so as others have postulated, either the car was not drivable; or the operation was interrupted (Jilian and her gun? Approaching passersby?). And evidence that should not have been left behind belied the victims’ ordeal.

I also wonder if there was a 911 call made at some point by the victims…during the presser, the agent was cagey about whether the victims had any contact with LE.

All imo.
If this was a first time killing for the group, I think they may have been surprised by the reactions of their own bodies and minds. If people have trouble pulling a trigger, imagine how difficult someone might find it to knock someone in the head with a hammer. Or to try to approach a gun-toting woman shooting for her life.

Until we are in a crisis, we never know how we're going to react. Perhaps the four/five killers were dealing with that and an unexpected fight from VB and JK.

Traffic on 95, located far too close for comfort, and their own reactions may have interfered with the "plan".
 
Absolutely agree.

I posted earlier that iirc entire county of Cimarron was over 1,000 sq miles with a population around 2,500 folks. Texas County in the 2020 US census had a population of 21,400 people and 2,041 sq miles. Is it possible to find appropriately unbiased jurors to even seat a jury with these stats?
MOO

If there are others who fall into the sovereign citizen category like some of the Misfits group, I would assume they might not show up for a jury summons anyway. Imo.
 
In any other case this would be incredibly weird, in this one though, it's par for the course. Imagine being friends with a guy who threatens people with firearms, and oh yeah, helps commit a double murder.

I have other thoughts about this, but they're best left unsaid until we know more.
I need to go back and look at the court docs re: the firearm charge against TC, just to see who the judge was. Soooo many people connected to the not-so-fab four.
 
Are the farming weed? Or meth? Or Fentanyl? or the other horrible drugs?
I doubt it - my impression is the religious right are not into drugs or involved in the drug trade. And everyone can tell by sight what's going on on other peoples land. Plus, only weed (and opium) is grown as a plant, most drugs are manufactured in labs.

JMO
 
I have no doubt that all the ways Veronica and these poor kids were failed will be under a lot of scrutiny in the very near future.

I also predict we're going to see a push for some kind of legislation regulating the locations and circumstances of child custody handovers. Veronica should not have had to do the majority of the driving to see her children, the handovers should not have been taking place in some abandoned parking lot in the middle of nowhere, and her safety concerns and requests for police protection should have been taken seriously from the start. They'll undoubtedly call the legislation Veronica's Law, and maybe it'll prevent another nightmare scenario like this unfolding in the future.
In Virginia most police and sheriff offices have a hand over location at the station house. It's usually at a entrance, has monitored cameras.

Children in State custody visits are usually at a secured location, a regular weekly scheduled time.

I can't see LE being responsible for hand-offs at random locations at various times. That would be so very time consuming.

Moo
 
With so much attention by numerous press agencies now being paid to every aspect of this vile murder, I have a feeling the local PD and the family courts in charge of the original custody case are going to be under the microscope. If ringleader TA had the influence and power she thought she had, well, I believe it will show up in court rulings and judgements.
I think the custody case will be HIGHLY scrutinized in the press and every decision is going to be examined and then re-examined. Then, it will be reported on!
Two women are dead and now that MSM has the story, they will uncover anything that even appears a little hinky.
All the questions we are asking about; like, why the custody exchanges were not done at a police station? Or, why did a policeman think custody of VB's children should be with Grandma TA? And why is he talking about it? I really hope the custody case is looked at extremely carefully - We know that it was this custody case that made Granny and her gang of numbskulls plan and execute 2 innocent women. Hopefully, answers are coming - sooner than later.

This is just my opinion, of course, but, it is also my hope.
Hell yeah!!!
 
In Virginia most police and sheriff offices have a hand over location at the station house. It's usually at a entrance, has monitored cameras.

Children in State custody visits are usually at a secured location, a regular weekly scheduled time.

I can't see LE being responsible for hand-offs at random locations at various times. That would be so very time consuming.

Moo
LE wouldn't have to be responsible; the solution you mention in Virginia would probably work just fine. Looking at Google Maps, there's a police station right in Elkhart that would have been a far more appropriate place to do the handover, IMO. I just can't understand why anyone ever thought it was appropriate to tell this woman who was scared to death of her eventual murderer that she had to meet that woman out in the middle of nowhere and be a sitting duck.
 
Could there have been someone else posted further out to block the road or place cones across the road after Veronica drove by so that nobody else would come across the scene as things went down during their kidnapping/attack? Just a thought I had.
I've spent time trying to understand where and how this happened - there has been some confusing information. I have posted incorrect maps while trying to figure this out. I think this is where it happened. I'm not sure how Tiffany and Tad got to that location, but it's possible that they were behind Veronica (in Cole's truck), then, after Cora and Cole unblocked the highway and followed Veronica, they could have driven down and arrived from the South. It's also possible that they were already waiting there.

I think this is where it happened.
 

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I've spend time trying to understand where and how this happened - there has been some confusing information. I have posted incorrect maps while trying to figure this out. I think this is where it happened. I'm not sure how Tiffany and Tad got to that location, but it's possible that they were behind Veronica (in Cole's truck), then, after Cora and Cole unblocked the highway and followed Veronica, they could have driven down and arrived from the South. It's also possible that they were already waiting there.

I think this is where it happened.
This makes complete sense. Thank you.
 
Re: the comment that this was so bold, perhaps they had done something similar before.

On the other hand, this 'mission' had so many mistakes, it seems unlikely they've ever done anything like it before.

However, they may have had visions of doing similarly audacious things in future.

And I hope people do look into any unexplained deaths that benefited TA.

JMO
I think they did not account for how Veronica and Jilian would react to the ambush. I think they envisioned the entire scenario with the two women standing still and waiting to be zapped with a stun gun and kidnapped. They did not anticipate this:

1713315572241.png
Affidavit - bottom of page
 
I've spend time trying to understand where and how this happened - there has been some confusing information. I have posted incorrect maps while trying to figure this out. I think this is where it happened. I'm not sure how Tiffany and Tad got to that location, but it's possible that they were behind Veronica (in Cole's truck), then, after Cora and Cole unblocked the highway and followed Veronica, they could have driven down and arrived from the South. It's also possible that they were already waiting there.

I think this is where it happened.
Thanks @otto. I've been wanting a good map like this.

Where is the Four Corner Market where they were supposed to meet from here?

I notice this does not have PG in it. If he were there, I'd think it was with Tad, and TA would not be at the scene there, but closer to the Beasley property where the burial site was.

As I read somewhere upstream, the thought was they were going to bury the two women in her car on the Beasley property. Evidently they felt the hole big enough to bury a vehicle in, despite it all being near a pond where there could be a flash flood or something to uncover the burial.
 
LE wouldn't have to be responsible; the solution you mention in Virginia would probably work just fine. Looking at Google Maps, there's a police station right in Elkhart that would have been a far more appropriate place to do the handover, IMO. I just can't understand why anyone ever thought it was appropriate to tell this woman who was scared to death of her eventual murderer that she had to meet that woman out in the middle of nowhere and be a sitting duck.
They probably can't use Elkhart because it's in a different state.
 
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